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Post subject: Re: Rap.
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:03 pm
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Post subject: Re: Rap.
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:43 pm
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OHHH! OHHH! Drop'en dope bombs in da house!

Next up:

Oh, I almost forgot, we need rap names to do this correct. I think I will be "Lil' Deluxe" for the remainder of this EPIC CONFLICT OF WORDS!

Ok, put us into paralysis with your lyrical prowessness .

I'm not tying to offend anyone here, this is just in fun. NO HATE'N

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Post subject: Re: Rap.
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:52 pm
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Rap IS music and ya’ll fools know it
Quit hatin’ and actin like they beat poets -
with NO skills… save for extracting bills
And rhymes that don’t quite rhyme?
That’s advanced next level shiz, home slice
Incredible skill is a great way to phrase it
It’s what it takes to be THIS amazin! :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Rap.
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:55 pm
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Deluxe Matt wrote:
This appears to be a vicarious rap battle. You gotta bring your own rhymez.

Example:

Generic beat in background/

Yo...Yo...Yo...
My rhymez is so tight,
You just don't know,
When this is over,
You gonna eat crow,
You better hope it don't snow,
Cause that jacket you wearing don't look warm enough...

Like that except better.


That one won't work, because know, crow and snow actually rhyme.

in rap, they would "rhyme" know with dog and cop.
(In country they would "rhyme" know with cow and love.)


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Post subject: Re: Rap.
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:12 pm
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Klowenst wrote:
Rap IS music and ya’ll fools know it


Yes.

It's just not very good music.

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Post subject: Re: Rap.
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:22 pm
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I've been reading this thread with some interest. I'm not really that into rap, but the Philadelphia scene (Jedi Mind Tricks, Vinnie Paz and his supergroup Army of the Pharaohs with several other Philly rappers++), Immortal Technique and Beastie Boys among others are not too bad IMO. What I find interesting in this discussion is all the people claiming that rap isn't music. What is music then? Would you say Gregorian chanting isn't music? What about 'Moby Dick' by Led Zeppelin? Or 'Ions' by Tool? 'Stoned Immaculate' by The Doors?

Just to make things simpler and more confused, here's one of my favorite cover songs (original by Grateful Dead), rap "bridge" added and a sampled drum track (from a James Brown song, if I'm not mistaken): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cg2O4SsHQw

Is that music?


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Post subject: Re: Rap.
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:45 pm
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Yes it is reggae music with a Cali accent. Welcome to the Forum Wet Gravity Have fun here. I like Sublime and their version of this old standard.

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Post subject: Re: Rap.
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:18 pm
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Sublime is one of those bands that is like an instant classic. They mixed rock, reggae, rap, punk all into really fun songs. I'm not sure about the new stuff yet, I hope they continue to grow and not just rehash the same material. Although the original material was great. I used to like Rage Against the Machine but it just turned too conspiracy theory for me. Very angry tunes. That's their thing and all, but I don't want to go around all hyped-up and paranoid all the time.

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Post subject: Re: Rap.
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:35 pm
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Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
Yes it is reggae music with a Cali accent. Welcome to the Forum Wet Gravity Have fun here. I like Sublime and their version of this old standard.


Thanks! :D

Sublime is one of my favorite bands, and they clearly make music, but according to some of the comments here, only barely :lol:

I consider all of the examples I gave in my first comment as music, even though Gregorian chanting (in its original form) had no set structure, no harmonies, no rhythm and no lyrics, 'Moby Dick' is just drums (or, 95% of it is), 'Ions' is a soundscape of sorts and 'Stoned Immaculate' is poetry backed by a band.

I do agree with people here that rap, and especially gangster rap, often contain lyrics that are detestable, but at the same time there's a lot of tongue-in-cheek involved. Discovering politically and socially aware rap a couple of years ago was a real eye opener for me, I'd always hated rap and hip hop before that. Listening a lot to Rage Against the Machine in the years leading up to that probably helped me open up a little bit to the genre (much like Prodigy have taught me to not disregard music just because it's made on a computer).

Now dubstep, that's not music :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Rap.
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:57 pm
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It's all music of some sort. It's the same old argument that people can make about anything. Like, is a Squier a real Strat? and so on... Even if something wasn't real music, I don't think we are going to change the world view here on the Fender forums. It's all subjective. Over and over again.

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Post subject: Re: Rap.
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:16 am
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Deluxe Matt wrote:
It's all music of some sort. It's the same old argument that people can make about anything. Like, is a Squier a real Strat? and so on...

Um, no. You can apply the duck test to a Squier. It passes.

It's rhythm and patter, and falls under the arts. But it's no more music than an auctioneer or dance caller is music. The harmony element is as essential to music as quacking is to a duck. Without it, you may still have sound, but you fail the test. Even if plebs will call a grebe a duck, it isn't. Neither by the test, nor in reality.


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Post subject: Re: Rap.
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:47 pm
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arth1 wrote:
It's rhythm and patter, and falls under the arts. But it's no more music than an auctioneer or dance caller is music. The harmony element is as essential to music as quacking is to a duck. Without it, you may still have sound, but you fail the test. Even if plebs will call a grebe a duck, it isn't. Neither by the test, nor in reality.


OK, try recording a few chords and then talk in a monotone voice out of pitch with the chords. Sounds just like rap? No?

All spoken language is melodic, and rappers keep their vocalization in key with the music = harmony.


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Post subject: Re: Rap.
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:15 am
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Wet Gravity wrote:
All spoken language is melodic, and rappers keep their vocalization in key with the music = harmony.


It's not "in key" - it's "in pitch". A very different thing.
Rap MCing is less melodic than the average speech of Scandinavians.

If keeping a patter in pitch and rhythm makes it music, the dance caller, auctioneer, imam and catholic priest are all musicians too. And marching soldiers are dancing.


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Post subject: Re: Rap.
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:09 am
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This argument has already been decided.

Hip hop is an accepted music genre, like it or not. I don't see auctioneers getting their own billboard charts, radio stations or Grammy award categories anytime soon. If they did I suppose they would be widely accepted as music as that point.

Time keeps marching on and terms will continue to be redefined.

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Post subject: Re: Rap.
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:42 pm
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SKcoppertele wrote:
This is a guitar forum. Rap is like our enemy at the moment.... Considering how its almost completely killed main stream rock.


Considering music a "battle" between genres is one of the most idiotic and childish things imaginable.



Music coexists you jackass, trends in pop come and go, and "pop rap" is hardly indicative of the quality of the entire genre. Similarly, the vast majority of mainstream rock/guitar music is shallow, trite fluff. Hip hop did not "kill" rock music, the tastes of the mainstream audience (of whom you are very much a part of, with your limited knowledge of music) "killed" rock music; even so, it's pretty damn lively for something that's supposedly dead.

The stuff that sells is usually garbage. Rock is not exempt from this, rap is not exempt from this, and neither is well-represented by the flavor of the week single. The "classics" are not the same as "what's hot right now". Do you seriously think that the handful of decent-to-great records that dadrocking teens cling to constitute everything that charted before The Evil Black Man Hippity Hoppity Music became a thing? The classics are generally diamonds in the rough, or albums that were only moderately successful upon release, and then garnered acclaim in the following decades. This is true, again in both genres.

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