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Post subject: Re: Delay. What is it?
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:07 pm
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Again on this point ...

arth1 wrote:
GilgaFrank wrote:
No, that's simply not correct. The delay time - the time between the first input audio signal and the delayed effect - will stay the same throughout the song. If you hit a chord in bar 1 then the delay will come after 500ms. If you hit a chord in bar 1000 then the delay will come after 500ms and will ALWAYS be in time.

Only if you have an external time source and disregard the beat of the delay. If, on the other hand, you adjust your beat to fit the delay, you'll be off at the end of a long song.



Let's look at a 120 bpm song and a delay of 500ms again. Imagine a bass drum hit every quarter note. Those beats are half a second apart, 500 ms.

They are 500ms apart in bar 1. They are 500ms apart in bar 100.

Pass them through a 500ms delay. The repeats will fall exactly in time. There will be no drift, no inaccuracy either practical or theoretical. Because the beats will always be 500ms apart.

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Post subject: Re: Delay. What is it?
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:24 pm
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Here ya go, 100 bars of bass drum at 120bpm. There's one 500ms delay and one dotted 8th note tempo sync delay.

http://soundcloud.com/gilgafrank/500ms- ... ay/s-nEXlN

And guess what? They don't go out of sync. Good luck achieving that with an analog delay pedal.

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Post subject: Re: Delay. What is it?
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:21 am
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Golly. This thread took an unexpected turn.

Fascinating as it is, perhaps we should remember that Her Wanna says he's been playing for two years and wants to take his first steps with onboard effects like delay on his Mustang amp. Maybe we can help with that.

Her Wanna, I admit I don't know the Mustang at all, but I expect it has a little LCD screen perhaps displaying effect perameters in, dare I say it, digits? Then you could try some of the following, as a way into how delay can be used.

If you set the time/delay to around 110-135 milliseconds (ms), the feedback to a single repeat (maybe the Mustang expresses that something like 15 on a range of 0-100...?) and the effect level to about 30 (out of a hundred) - well then you have what's known as a "slap-back" delay. Play it through a very clean amp with perhaps a touch of reverb and you have the classic rock-and-roll, rockabilly, surf sound in a nutshell. Something to experiment with is palm-muting the bass strings and playing single note riffs on them. There you have a sound everyone from Brian Setzer to The Clash and beyond have used. One of the key rock tones, achieved with delay.

My own core use of delay involves setting it to about 260ms, feedback to 10 and level to 20 (out of 100, if that's the way the Mustang works?). This gives the tiniest hint of an echo; it is so little you almost can't tell it's there against the rest of a number, but it just adds a touch of width and shimmer to your sound without hurting clarity. Settings somewhere in this range are useful for enhancing your tone in all kinds of situations.

You can also use delay for honest-to-goodness echo. Her Wanna, your tastes and mine are far apart but bear with me for the sake of examples. On the original album track of Norah Jones' Nightingale the lead guitarist, Adam Levy, I believe, gets one of the all-time goddam simple, beautiful guitar sounds by playing through a clean amp with a delay set to around 360-ish, feedback about 10, level around 30. No doubt there's a bit more to that gorgeous tone than that, but the delay used as an echo is at the heart of it.

Another echo type situation is when a player uses a longish delay and single, clear repeat (low feedback level, effect level somewhere below half way) so that he can do a kind of call-and-reply thing. An example that comes to mind is Mark Knopfler on the playout at the end of Lions, on the first Dire Straits album. He plays a phrase and the delay plays it back to him, so that he's almost duetting with himself as the music fades away. Many other people have done this sort of thing: another classic way to use delay.

Another option is to turn up the feedback so that you get multiple repeats. For example, on Pink Floyd's Run Like Hell and many other spots on The Wall album (not your cup of tea I'm sure, but...) Dave Gilmour uses the delay this way so that by locking into it it effectively becomes his own rhythm track, which the band can then play against. The intros of Run Like Hell and Another Brick in the Wall from the Pulse tour/DVD are good places to see this put to excellent use - YouTube will have them.

You can also do very weird things with delay. If you listen to the album cut of Led Zeppelin's Houses of the Holy (from Physical Graffiti) on the intro and outro there is a very odd guitar sound, as if it's been recorded through an empty baked bean tin. This is achieved simply by setting the delay time to 20ms, feedback around 40, effect level all the way up. It's an interesting noise - and the kind of thing we should use very, very sparingly!

There ya go, that's a few useful reasons to work with a delay pedal. Other Forum users will be able to suggest many more.

Have fun - C

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Post subject: Re: Delay. What is it?
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:31 am
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I'm somewhat of a neophyte at using a delay pedal. Part of the issue was the fact that I wasn't a big fan of digital delay...when I first started playing, many if the players were over-saturating their tone with chorus and digital delay (both of which I avoid to this day). To make my tone more unique (and match many of my heroes) I consciously kept my signal dry (no delay and very little--if any--reverb).

However, there were delayed/echoed sounds and songs I liked (the esteemed Mr. Gilmour' work being foremost amongst that group, even though I suspect much if his craft was accomplished with a digital delay), so I was torn like an old sweater.

Finally, somebody showed me the difference between a digital delay and an analog delay, and I was hooked...I now have an MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay occupying the Big Ol' Board of Sonic Bliss...it does everything I want an echo to do, in one easy package.

It is the antithesis of the 1980's shred-meister's digital delay sounds...and that's a good thing to me!

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Post subject: Re: Delay. What is it?
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:46 am
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To add to Ceri's excellent reply, you could check out this manual (if you haven't already) for the Fender Cyber-Twin. It has some good information about the various effects that were bundled with the discontinued Cyber-Twin amp, and some of the info. is relevant to the Mustang (and G-Dec) effects.
http://support.fender.com/manuals/guita ... manual.pdf

cheers,
Alex

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Post subject: Re: Delay. What is it?
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:20 pm
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Just purchased a delay pedal ( catalinbread echorec ) before that used multi effects line 6, the difference with this pedal is night and day ,instead of a single delay ( which is still possible) you have a 4 head delay and to save me trying to explain further this is as good a vid as any on YouTube


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Post subject: Re: Delay. What is it?
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:43 am
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Ceri wrote:
Golly. This thread took an unexpected turn.

Fascinating as it is, perhaps we should remember that Her Wanna says he's been playing for two years and wants to take his first steps with onboard effects like delay on his Mustang amp. Maybe we can help with that.

Her Wanna, I admit I don't know the Mustang at all, but I expect it has a little LCD screen perhaps displaying effect perameters in, dare I say it, digits? Then you could try some of the following, as a way into how delay can be used.

If you set the time/delay to around 110-135 milliseconds (ms), the feedback to a single repeat (maybe the Mustang expresses that something like 15 on a range of 0-100...?) and the effect level to about 30 (out of a hundred) - well then you have what's known as a "slap-back" delay. Play it through a very clean amp with perhaps a touch of reverb and you have the classic rock-and-roll, rockabilly, surf sound in a nutshell. Something to experiment with is palm-muting the bass strings and playing single note riffs on them. There you have a sound everyone from Brian Setzer to The Clash and beyond have used. One of the key rock tones, achieved with delay.

My own core use of delay involves setting it to about 260ms, feedback to 10 and level to 20 (out of 100, if that's the way the Mustang works?). This gives the tiniest hint of an echo; it is so little you almost can't tell it's there against the rest of a number, but it just adds a touch of width and shimmer to your sound without hurting clarity. Settings somewhere in this range are useful for enhancing your tone in all kinds of situations.

You can also use delay for honest-to-goodness echo. Her Wanna, your tastes and mine are far apart but bear with me for the sake of examples. On the original album track of Norah Jones' Nightingale the lead guitarist, Adam Levy, I believe, gets one of the all-time goddam simple, beautiful guitar sounds by playing through a clean amp with a delay set to around 360-ish, feedback about 10, level around 30. No doubt there's a bit more to that gorgeous tone than that, but the delay used as an echo is at the heart of it.

Another echo type situation is when a player uses a longish delay and single, clear repeat (low feedback level, effect level somewhere below half way) so that he can do a kind of call-and-reply thing. An example that comes to mind is Mark Knopfler on the playout at the end of Lions, on the first Dire Straits album. He plays a phrase and the delay plays it back to him, so that he's almost duetting with himself as the music fades away. Many other people have done this sort of thing: another classic way to use delay.

Another option is to turn up the feedback so that you get multiple repeats. For example, on Pink Floyd's Run Like Hell and many other spots on The Wall album (not your cup of tea I'm sure, but...) Dave Gilmour uses the delay this way so that by locking into it it effectively becomes his own rhythm track, which the band can then play against. The intros of Run Like Hell and Another Brick in the Wall from the Pulse tour/DVD are good places to see this put to excellent use - YouTube will have them.

You can also do very weird things with delay. If you listen to the album cut of Led Zeppelin's Houses of the Holy (from Physical Graffiti) on the intro and outro there is a very odd guitar sound, as if it's been recorded through an empty baked bean tin. This is achieved simply by setting the delay time to 20ms, feedback around 40, effect level all the way up. It's an interesting noise - and the kind of thing we should use very, very sparingly!

There ya go, that's a few useful reasons to work with a delay pedal. Other Forum users will be able to suggest many more.

Have fun - C


Thanks again. One never knows where our tastes might collide. I'm really into clean sounds lately and I'm really into to "goth country" or "dark country" like Iron & Wine, Bonnie "Prince" Billy, the Civil Wars.

(someone was asking for suggestions the other day...forget which thread...if you see this PM me I can suggest many "acoustic-y" dark/brooding type singer-songwriter stuff that's sort of dark edged.

Here is my current favorite band and song:



These guys are siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick IMO. (Yes I know they supposedly broke up.) (sound quality here is atrocious....gotta buy the album and listen with good headphones.)

I will be attempting to cover this song soon and y'all can hear my voice. I just have to sing this. Neighbors be warned.


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Post subject: Re: Delay. What is it?
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:34 am
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Uh oh. I am becoming a delay addict. Now that I've been messing around with delay, it sounds beautiful to me and my dry clean tone--which I had previously thought was pretty--sounds weak to me, even with some reverb.

Should I embrace this new situation or be worried about it? Now my OCD is kicking in and when I play my arpeggiated clean/shimmering chords I can't decide whether or not to use delay.


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Post subject: Re: Delay. What is it?
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:13 am
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what is delay? i'll get you an answer later :roll:


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