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Post subject: iPod Classic is No More - More Planned Obsolescence (Grrrrr)
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:38 am
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Aspiring Musician
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It's a sad day for music fans. The reasons given by Apple are stupid. I will expound on these thoughts later.

It is *not* true that all people want everything in the cloud. I want to own my music in hard form that I can pass down to my kids and still possess even after Apple goes out of business one day. I don't want to rely on the continuing existence of the internet, my access to the internet, or the existence of Apple Computer Company to have music that I paid for. I don't want to "rent" my music by paying $19.99 a month for the next 50 years to have "access" to 500 zillion songs. I want to buy my music and own it regardless of whether Apple exists anymore. Get me?

The classic has 160 gigs, allowing 25,000 songs. Streaming is still not reliable. Can't usually have reliable internet on a plane. I burned all my old CDs to my iPod, which has *all* of my music, and I like to listen to shuffle of all songs and get surprised by old stuff from my high school days coming up right after some band I discovered yesterday. I don't always do that. I sometimes pick an album to listen to. I like to be like you guys in the 60s (but digital); I buy entire albums and listen to them, not individual songs.

As you may know, the new apple thing is that indeed iTunes has a record in the cloud of everything you've purchased so you can delete and redownload to your devices repeatedly, but the biggest iPhone has only 64 gigs and of course one must leave room for other things, such as photographs and videos. Not enough to hold *all* of my music, so I can do my shuffle technique.

I have so much music, I rely on my iPod to remember for me what I have....when I shuffle *all* songs.

Apple's new thing--which fits the category of planned obsolescence that has been discussed elsewhere--is actually like going backwards to the days of "6 disc CD changers" and tapes and CDs, where one had to decide in advance a few albums to bring. Like a trip to the beach or a road trip....the new apple way of doing that is to download to your 32G device what you want to take with you from your collection that day. Well again, I want a 164G device with *all* of the music I own, so I can do my aforementioned shuffle listening method.

One might respond: well you already have your iPod classic; just keep it. Well I fully expect it to fail one day, not be replaceable, and/or apple will not provide support for it anymore. They are already pushing people away from the old iTunes as used on a computer….everything is device based.

Streaming is not a solution for the future if that’s *all* there is. The internet is still spotty, often it freezes even when I have a good WiFi connection, can’t use in planes or cars without wifi (not everyone has a new BMW), etc. Apple's own iPhone is terrible at having good internet; it's 50/50 even if on wifi w/ good connection. Streaming (like Pandora and Apple's new competitor "radio" are not reliable).

Then there is battery life. The iPod classic legitimately gets 25 hours of continuous battery life!!!! Easily allowing one to listen to music for an entire trip across the Atlantic Ocean. The iPhone and other devices as we all know, on the other hand, have less than 5 real hours of battery life when listening to music and probably only 2 hours when streaming...not even enough to last a day at the beach (I know; I've tried it.) Streaming is not a replacement, Apple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't have internet in my car, but I do have an iPod classic that I can plug in through the lighter and have *all* of my 9,000 songs with me. I possess it without needing internet. This is necessary for road trips. Streaming is not a solution.

The most laughable thing that pissed me off is a Rolling Stone article about it….no time to link now but you can find on rollingstone.com, saying that Apple has concluded that folks just don’t care about music anymore because they spend their time playing Angry Birds instead.

What???!!!?!!! What?!!??? I, like many people, like those of us who frequent this forum, still love MUSIC and basically only music and I have never wasted even one second of my life playing angry birds or any other stupid game app. I want a music device with as much memory AND BATTERY LIFE as possible, Apple!!!!!!!!!

I also have an iPhone (32G) and indeed I am able to keep thousands of songs on there, but not *all* of my music, and I also need room for pics of my kids, and indeed I *have* experiences several times running out of memory when I was trying to take a video of my kids doing something cute because I had not put the pics and vids on the computer recently. yeah I can monitor, but basically I have to set aside 9 gigs for music and 9 gigs for photos...again, meaning I cannot keep even 10% of my music collection on the phone. Everyone knows that 32G device does not make anything close to that amount available to the user, as many gigs are used for background firmware stuff on the device. Whereas the iPod classic has a legit 160 gigs (!!!! ) of space available for music and movies (I buy concert vids).

I can clarify these thoughts later…typed this at warp speed gotta get back to work..

I understand that technology moves on....records, tapes, 8 tracks, CDs...gone.

But in this case mp3 is still the thing and Apple is taking away a 160G device dedicated to music under the idea that streaming is the future along with devices w/ less memory, just because one's purchases are stored in the cloud and can be re-downloaded to a device.

I want my iPod classic with enough memory to have *all* of my music on one device at one time.

I guess one day perhaps soon the new iPhone will have 160 gigs....but we all know that cell phones are made to fail or be obsolete after 1 year or 2.

I have paid thousands of dollars to buy music I want, classic music like Jimi Hendrix and Dick Dale and the Ventures etc etc that I want to give to my kids one day. Unlike me, who started from scratch (my dad did not give me any music...found out he has a Ventures record...never showed that to me when I was listening to pop crap as a kid like most kids), I have a great start to a music collection that I want to give my kids. I paid about $10 to $12 per album and I own it.....my kids should not have to re-purchase it or "rent it" on a streaming service one day, as is, no doubt, Apple's plan.


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Post subject: Re: iPod Classic is No More - More Planned Obsolescence (Grr
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:04 am
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Her Wanna wrote:
One might respond: well you already have your iPod classic; just keep it. Well I fully expect it to fail one day, not be replaceable, and/or apple will not provide support for it anymore.


No Apple isn't going to support it anymore, not really a big deal IMO - exactly what support do you need with an iPod?

As far as being irreplaceable, considering how many of those things they sold, I would think there will be quite a supply of them on Ebay for a long time. If you can get an original 1980's Sony Walkman, new in package in 2013, I think you'll be just fine.

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Post subject: Re: iPod Classic is No More - More Planned Obsolescence (Grr
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:53 am
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Aspiring Musician
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strings10927 wrote:
No Apple isn't going to support it anymore, not really a big deal IMO - exactly what support do you need with an iPod?


The ability to have my computer put new songs on it. Need a cable the old fashioned way since it does not have internet. I've only used half my memory and I'm not done buying songs. Need an iTunes program on the computer that bears some resemblance to the current one...where one can plug the ipod into the computer and put songs on it. It seems apple is phasing out iTunes itself...moving everything to streaming/cloud stuff.

This is literally corporate shenanigans again. More turning us all into propertyless serfs. These monthly fee streaming services are literally RENTING music. Think about it. They are close to taking away the ability to BUY it even though there are plenty of folks still willing to do that. The reason for this is literally so that my children will have to repurchase it (or keep renting it) in the future.

BTW I also realize apple never had to give us this product in the first place and I could literally burn all my music to CDs and keep them as best as I can just like my dad could have kept all of his old records.....but literally the physical world DEVICES to play the old technology might go away just like record players did for a while (and 8 track and tape players). They want to move everyone to "the cloud" where stuff I have paid for can instantly disappear at the company's whim or if the company fails. No real world hard copy of albums that I have purchased is where it leads to, unless I can keep my iPod and the current equipment I have to play the music working all those years, if you follow me.

In short, I'm not a fan of spotify. I like paying $10 or $12 and owning an album that I can put on a device that does not need an internet connection for me to hear it.


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Post subject: Re: iPod Classic is No More - More Planned Obsolescence (Grr
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:03 pm
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Waaaaa, the sky is falling. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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Post subject: Re: iPod Classic is No More - More Planned Obsolescence (Grr
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:56 pm
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I believe there are a few programs out there that can load music onto an iPod without using iTunes. I don't have one to try it, but you might take a look at these:

http://www.foobar2000.org/
http://getsongbird.com/

But shame on Apple for making it so hard to use something different. :evil:

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Post subject: Re: iPod Classic is No More - More Planned Obsolescence (Grr
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:59 pm
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I think you are making this sound way worse than it really is.

The cloud is not replacing iTunes in any way. iTunes is the store, the cloud is the storage locker. The cloud is simply a place where you can back up your music, to ensure that you do NOT lose it. Anything that you buy off of iTunes, you will own forever. You own the mp3 file, which you can then save in a folder on your computer, or even rip it onto a CD. Therefore, even if Apple does go out of business, you still own that file.

As for your streaming rant, I really don't understand what you are talking about.

Now onto the iPod. It makes complete sense for them to get rid of it. The reality is that very few people buy them anymore. I only know one person that still has an iPod. From a business standpoint, it just does not make sense to keep producing them when the market is disappearing.

The iPhone 6, which is expected to come out in a year or two, is rumoured to have a model that has 128G. Some expected it with the 5S, but when that didn't happen, there seems to be speculation that it will happen next time.


This whole rant just sounds like you are having trouble with change. Well get used to it man, it's happening all the time these days.


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Post subject: Re: iPod Classic is No More - More Planned Obsolescence (Grr
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:39 pm
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I love my iPod. I love it! If Apple abandons me, then tough for them. They are not the be all and end all. Someday they'll be like HP and in the toilet too. They just want all the iPod users to switch to iPhones. Brilliant business strategy though.


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Post subject: Re: iPod Classic is No More - More Planned Obsolescence (Grr
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:04 pm
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Ya and I must admit that part of my problem is also not trusting my external hard drives not to eventually fail (along with the memory suck that iTunes is, generally, for a computer).

In other words, I understand that I own the mp3 file and it's on my (external) hard drive and I can always copy it to other backup hard drives and on a CD, etc. I guess my real problem is that (as of now) my iPod is actually more trustworthy or user friendly. It has *all* of my music, whereas memory-suck iTunes kept filling up hard drives (first my internal then a huge external), so now I'm on my 2nd external hard drive and iTunes (as the player...I know it's the store too) is very confusing and makes backup copies every which way and half the time my computer can no longer find a song (because it's on a different hard drive that's not turned on)...then when I find it, it re-copies it and sucks even more memory.

Currently, my old fashioned iPod is the only place where I can reliably find *all* of my music and have it play when I hit play. :lol: I have about 6 different folders on 3 different hard drives where at one time or another iTunes was saving files when I bought songs or movies. So I can no longer shuffle songs using iTunes the player on my computer and have *all* of my songs work, and this is something I like to do because I have a decent sound system attached to my computer with a subwoofer that puts out decent bass.

I could go through and clean it all up, but I also don't trust that because so many files...moving them is dangerous and I know that first hand. You need to use iTunes, not windows explorer (another problem is I have an old PC), to do it, and it's not very good at it.


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Post subject: Re: iPod Classic is No More - More Planned Obsolescence (Grr
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:34 pm
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I like my 160 GB iPod. It tells me I currently have over 13 days of music loaded onto it, most of which is from my CDs. I'll always have the CDs, but I sure as heck don't want to do all that uploading again.

I've had it since iPods were the new device on the block and eventually the battery will fail. If Apple don't make a comparable unit at that time then I shall move on to some other company's gizmo. Apple do not own our souls.

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Post subject: Re: iPod Classic is No More - More Planned Obsolescence (Grr
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:10 pm
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You must have spit it big time when they stopped making vinyl. Or was that Apple's fault too?

Her Wanna wrote:
The classic has 160 gigs, allowing 25,000 songs.


At what bitrate? At 256kpbs, that 20,000 songs. If you're running lower rate than that to fit them on, the quality is questionable. 128 is certainly dead, being more for dial up convenience way back when. If you have any of those old 128s and a decent sound system, it's being bottle necked by poor quality source music.

25k songs avgs to about 2500 albums. You seriously listen to it all? I don't. I archive stuff and put everything I'm likely to listen and lots more, on my Classic, and it's not even 20% full.

Her Wanna wrote:
I want to own my music in hard form that I can pass down to my kids and still possess even after Apple goes out of business one day. I don't want to rely on the continuing existence of the internet, my access to the internet, or the existence of Apple Computer Company to have music that I paid for. I don't want to "rent" my music by paying $19.99 a month for the next 50 years to have "access" to 500 zillion songs. I want to buy my music and own it regardless of whether Apple exists anymore. Get me?


Read your licence agreement. In legal terms you don't own it. You own a licence to keep it on an authorised computer with an iTunes account on it. Your kids aren't legally entitled to it. Sure, you can work around if you give them your Apple account details or the raw mp3/AACs, but there's going to be many people who have no idea where all those files are stored, or how to access them.

If others feel the same, I'm sure there'll be a used market for 160 iPods and people like yourself will stock up on a few.


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Post subject: Re: iPod Classic is No More - More Planned Obsolescence (Grr
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:02 am
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Drubbing wrote:
You must have spit it big time when they stopped making vinyl. Or was that Apple's fault too?

Her Wanna wrote:
The classic has 160 gigs, allowing 25,000 songs.


At what bitrate? At 256kpbs, that 20,000 songs. If you're running lower rate than that to fit them on, the quality is questionable. 128 is certainly dead, being more for dial up convenience way back when. If you have any of those old 128s and a decent sound system, it's being bottle necked by poor quality source music.

25k songs avgs to about 2500 albums. You seriously listen to it all? I don't. I archive stuff and put everything I'm likely to listen and lots more, on my Classic, and it's not even 20% full.

Her Wanna wrote:
I want to own my music in hard form that I can pass down to my kids and still possess even after Apple goes out of business one day. I don't want to rely on the continuing existence of the internet, my access to the internet, or the existence of Apple Computer Company to have music that I paid for. I don't want to "rent" my music by paying $19.99 a month for the next 50 years to have "access" to 500 zillion songs. I want to buy my music and own it regardless of whether Apple exists anymore. Get me?


Read your licence agreement. In legal terms you don't own it. You own a licence to keep it on an authorised computer with an iTunes account on it. Your kids aren't legally entitled to it. Sure, you can work around if you give them your Apple account details or the raw mp3/AACs, but there's going to be many people who have no idea where all those files are stored, or how to access them.

If others feel the same, I'm sure there'll be a used market for 160 iPods and people like yourself will stock up on a few.


Right. I own my devices. Can give them to my kids as long as they still work.


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Post subject: Re: iPod Classic is No More - More Planned Obsolescence (Grr
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:58 am
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Drubbing wrote:
You must have spit it big time when they stopped making vinyl. Or was that Apple's fault too?


They stopped making vinyl? When did that happen? I currently get 27183 results when I look for vinyl on the Best Buy website. :idea:

Drubbing wrote:
Read your licence agreement. In legal terms you don't own it. You own a licence to keep it on an authorised computer with an iTunes account on it.


And that's why you should NEVER buy music from the iTunes store. Walmart.com is usually cheaper anyway.

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Post subject: Re: iPod Classic is No More - More Planned Obsolescence (Grr
Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:07 am
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Her Wanna wrote:
It's a sad day for music fans. The reasons given by Apple are stupid. I will expound on these thoughts later.

It is *not* true that all people want everything in the cloud. I want to own my music in hard form that I can pass down to my kids and still possess even after Apple goes out of business one day. I don't want to rely on the continuing existence of the internet, my access to the internet, or the existence of Apple Computer Company to have music that I paid for. I don't want to "rent" my music by paying $19.99 a month for the next 50 years to have "access" to 500 zillion songs. I want to buy my music and own it regardless of whether Apple exists anymore. Get me?

The classic has 160 gigs, allowing 25,000 songs. Streaming is still not reliable. Can't usually have reliable internet on a plane. I burned all my old CDs to my iPod, which has *all* of my music, and I like to listen to shuffle of all songs and get surprised by old stuff from my high school days coming up right after some band I discovered yesterday. I don't always do that. I sometimes pick an album to listen to. I like to be like you guys in the 60s (but digital); I buy entire albums and listen to them, not individual songs.

As you may know, the new apple thing is that indeed iTunes has a record in the cloud of everything you've purchased so you can delete and redownload to your devices repeatedly, but the biggest iPhone has only 64 gigs and of course one must leave room for other things, such as photographs and videos. Not enough to hold *all* of my music, so I can do my shuffle technique.

I have so much music, I rely on my iPod to remember for me what I have....when I shuffle *all* songs.

Apple's new thing--which fits the category of planned obsolescence that has been discussed elsewhere--is actually like going backwards to the days of "6 disc CD changers" and tapes and CDs, where one had to decide in advance a few albums to bring. Like a trip to the beach or a road trip....the new apple way of doing that is to download to your 32G device what you want to take with you from your collection that day. Well again, I want a 164G device with *all* of the music I own, so I can do my aforementioned shuffle listening method.

One might respond: well you already have your iPod classic; just keep it. Well I fully expect it to fail one day, not be replaceable, and/or apple will not provide support for it anymore. They are already pushing people away from the old iTunes as used on a computer….everything is device based.

Streaming is not a solution for the future if that’s *all* there is. The internet is still spotty, often it freezes even when I have a good WiFi connection, can’t use in planes or cars without wifi (not everyone has a new BMW), etc. Apple's own iPhone is terrible at having good internet; it's 50/50 even if on wifi w/ good connection. Streaming (like Pandora and Apple's new competitor "radio" are not reliable).

Then there is battery life. The iPod classic legitimately gets 25 hours of continuous battery life!!!! Easily allowing one to listen to music for an entire trip across the Atlantic Ocean. The iPhone and other devices as we all know, on the other hand, have less than 5 real hours of battery life when listening to music and probably only 2 hours when streaming...not even enough to last a day at the beach (I know; I've tried it.) Streaming is not a replacement, Apple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't have internet in my car, but I do have an iPod classic that I can plug in through the lighter and have *all* of my 9,000 songs with me. I possess it without needing internet. This is necessary for road trips. Streaming is not a solution.

The most laughable thing that pissed me off is a Rolling Stone article about it….no time to link now but you can find on rollingstone.com, saying that Apple has concluded that folks just don’t care about music anymore because they spend their time playing Angry Birds instead.

What???!!!?!!! What?!!??? I, like many people, like those of us who frequent this forum, still love MUSIC and basically only music and I have never wasted even one second of my life playing angry birds or any other stupid game app. I want a music device with as much memory AND BATTERY LIFE as possible, Apple!!!!!!!!!

I also have an iPhone (32G) and indeed I am able to keep thousands of songs on there, but not *all* of my music, and I also need room for pics of my kids, and indeed I *have* experiences several times running out of memory when I was trying to take a video of my kids doing something cute because I had not put the pics and vids on the computer recently. yeah I can monitor, but basically I have to set aside 9 gigs for music and 9 gigs for photos...again, meaning I cannot keep even 10% of my music collection on the phone. Everyone knows that 32G device does not make anything close to that amount available to the user, as many gigs are used for background firmware stuff on the device. Whereas the iPod classic has a legit 160 gigs (!!!! ) of space available for music and movies (I buy concert vids).

I can clarify these thoughts later…typed this at warp speed gotta get back to work..

I understand that technology moves on....records, tapes, 8 tracks, CDs...gone.

But in this case mp3 is still the thing and Apple is taking away a 160G device dedicated to music under the idea that streaming is the future along with devices w/ less memory, just because one's purchases are stored in the cloud and can be re-downloaded to a device.

I want my iPod classic with enough memory to have *all* of my music on one device at one time.

I guess one day perhaps soon the new iPhone will have 160 gigs....but we all know that cell phones are made to fail or be obsolete after 1 year or 2.

I have paid thousands of dollars to buy music I want, classic music like Jimi Hendrix and Dick Dale and the Ventures etc etc that I want to give to my kids one day. Unlike me, who started from scratch (my dad did not give me any music...found out he has a Ventures record...never showed that to me when I was listening to pop crap as a kid like most kids), I have a great start to a music collection that I want to give my kids. I paid about $10 to $12 per album and I own it.....my kids should not have to re-purchase it or "rent it" on a streaming service one day, as is, no doubt, Apple's plan.


Apple are still selling it on their website. Considering itunes dominate the music sales worldwide, I doubt that the consumer will be left in the dark. With the one trick pony iPod classic with no wifi or touch screen, the writing has been on the wall for ages for a iPod touch with a higher capacity.

Yes people play angry birds, as mind-numbingly dumb as that game is- its all about putting the world in the palm of your hand with social networking and media taking priority over bulk music libraries. With that in mind, it's also great to still have your music libraries on hand.

I hear what you are saying, im an apple classic user myself haveing to retire my 80gb for a larger capacity- but I wouldn't believe everything you hear until you hear it straight from apple, if you haven't already.

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Post subject: Re: iPod Classic is No More - More Planned Obsolescence (Grr
Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:08 am
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Well first off, Rolling Stone is completely wrong (as they are about most things) if they think that Apple doesn't care about music. Hello, who invented the iPod, iTunes music store, and who has an annual live music event (iTunes Music Fest) every year?

I have an iPod classic and I love it. I have the 64GB model, which honestly is not big enough to fit all the music in my library. But since I've been teaching guitar lessons, I've found that using Spotify to stream music is much more practical. I really, truly, do not want to have to buy every Taylor Swift, One Direction, and Bruno Mars song that my students want to learn. I don't want to use youtube either, because it's overrun by ads that take up precious lesson time.

Now, you have to take into account that I'm running Spotify on what tech experts are now calling the "ancient" iPhone 4. No Siri, no fingerprint sensor, no fancy 4G. I've never had a problem streaming, whether via wifi or 3G. I listened to music and watched netflix all the way to Memphis last winter. Battery life isn't bad if you just turn the screen brightness down a little and set it to automatically turn off after a certain number of minutes. I get an average of 12 hours use when streaming with it, and remember this is a heavily used three year old device we're talking about.

Since my Spotify subscription, I literally haven't touched my trusty old iPod. I'll still keep it as a backup, and I might even buy a 160GB one at some point. I also wouldn't worry about Apple not supporting them anymore. I'm typing this on a seven year old MacBook, which they replaced the entire keyboard on a few years ago at the Apple store. And USB ports aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions about streaming quite yet. While it's weird not to "own" the music, it doesn't really feel like you're renting it either. It just feels like you have a nearly unlimited music library. Ironically, I do still buy music from my favorite artists in physical form. Right now, I have more than 350 albums on vinyl and over 200 more on CD. I continue to buy CDs and especially vinyl. As someone raised on MP3s, hearing vinyl for the first time was just incredible. Vinyl through a decent sound system sounds 100 times better than MP3s through earbuds.

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Post subject: Re: iPod Classic is No More - More Planned Obsolescence (Grr
Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:00 am
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I have given up on trying to have all the music that comes out, I keep only what I like now and it all fits on my 16Gig iphone. And even then its too much to listen to.

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