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Post subject: Re: Pro Junior as a practice amp?
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:44 am
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Aspiring Musician
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Canadian pricing is usually a little higher than USA pricing.
I'm consistently seeing the typical regular retail prices at:
DRRI - $1050
PRRI - $950

In Canada about $1K is the going rate for a decent entry level low wattage amp. Under that amount you pretty much get a disposable toy amp.

My 2¢

Toy Category:

HRD3 - 730
BJ3 - 600
PJ3 - 450



Why,...may I ask,...do you refer to the HRD III,BJ III,and PJ III as disposable 'toy' amps just because they range in price from $400.00 to $800.00? Not all of us can afford PRRI,DRRI,etc,etc. amps costing upwards of $1,000.00! I don't consider them toys at all!
My idea of "toy" amps are your little Frontman amps from $59.00 up to maybe $200.00,...now those ARE toys IMO! Remember,...my OP was about a low wattage tube amp for portability,simplicity,and practice and I see no reason why a PJ would not fill the bill for that purpose. I'm not mad at anyone,okay,...but I just,...for the life of me,...could not understand why you or anyone else would consider the HR series amps toys,...they are not toys at all. Yes,...it would be nice if I could afford amps like a Twin Reverb,Deluxe Reverb,or any of the other high end amps,...but I can't,...and that is why I went with the HR series of amps,and I see ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with them at all. That is why Fender has these mid priced HR series tube amps available for those of us who want a tube amp,but can't afford the higher end ones! Just wanted to point that out,okay! Are we cool about it?

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Post subject: Re: Pro Junior as a practice amp?
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:33 am
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If you take a little trip over to the amp forums and peruse some of the complaint and repair threads you may catch a glimpse. In the amp forums you will find people who build and repair amps both for a living and as a hobby. They KNOW amplifiers. When these gentlemen speak the public would be wise to pay attention. If you spend enough time there you will learn which user's opinions to give credibility to.

Also, I did put "My 2¢" in my comment indicating it was my opinion.

Also, if I may point out the blatantly and painfully obvious to clarify a point you appear to be confused on, the DRRI and PRRI are not high end amplifiers. They are mid-range ampliers. The HR/B series are low end amplifiers. Try not to compare a solid state range of amps with a tube range. Apples and oranges. In the tube world, what you call mid-range is actually entry level.

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Post subject: Re: Pro Junior as a practice amp?
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:50 pm
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Just because an amp has a "good" pedigree doesn't make it desirable, valuable or even good-sounding...and amp choices can be just as personal as the choice of guitar, pickups, and type of underwear.

In the early nineties, many/most of the guys in Austin were playing (original) 1960's blackface Twin Reverbs...of course, I immediately had to have one (since I was so wonderful :roll: )...and every time I played through one, I hated it...from original blackfaces to early (non-master) silverfaces to the later master-volume silverfaces to reissue blackfaces, I just never got a sound I liked out of a Twin Reverb. I loved many a sound that other guys made using them, but they never "clicked" with me.

Some of my favorite amps I have ever played through have been what other players have deemed "dogs"...silverface master-volume Bassman Ten, Gibson solid state G-20, made-in-China Vox AC-15...I have loved, owned or played through many, many "lesser" amplifiers, and have gotten some pretty dang good signs out of them.

The Hot Rod series (which, in my mind, includes the Pro, Jr. and the Blues, Jr.) may be less "desirable" in some people's eyes, ears, electronic sensibilities or heart, but if it sounds good to whomever is playing through it, it's good (beauty is in the ear of the axe-holder, to paraphrase ol' Billy).

If a guy likes an amp and makes some good sounds with it (even one I find detestable), more power to him...

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Post subject: Re: Pro Junior as a practice amp?
Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:23 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
It's an experience thing. Perception of tone is personal but way more than that it is greatly affected by previous amplifier experience. If you've experienced great amps in the past you judge all comers by that standard. Many people are absolutely fine with their HRDs and BJs and PJs. They hear their amp and they think it sounds like something they heard on a CD. If the day ever comes that they happen to spend a few weeks with a real BlackFace Vibroverb or Vibrolux Reverb or even a Deluxe Reverb they will find their perception of those HR amps is significantly diminished and that the CD they previously used as a reference didn't do the real live tone of a great amp any justice. The increasing popularity of the RI amps is testament to that fact despite them not being quite up to snuff in the build department.

This experienced muso hears boxiness in the BJ as do many others. There is a reason you always hear about it ... because it exists ... and people who have already shelled out their cash and don't like hearing they bought something "less-than" can argue until they are blue in the face but it won't change the truth. If you can't hear it then the problem lies with either your ears or your experience. Either way it's about your perception or lack thereof.



+1 It does exist and Beemer you are absolutely correct. People like what they like, but most working pros I known and worked with for over 40 years would agree with you. And yeah, I also played a 76 Master Volume 100 watt Twin Reverb for over 30 years and loved that reliable workhorse. There's no bragging or snobbery here. And no, the electronics are not superior in any way way in these stock amps. Illinois caps are cheaply produced in Taiwan as are many of the other components. The boards are cheaply made and there were serious problems with the early Mexican made HRDlx amps and that's also a fact and it's well. documented. My HRdlx was a dog through and through. I never said it sounded horrible, it just wasn't reliable. The drive channel was unusable in mine though. It was like an icepick in the forehead. I have owned many Fender amps since 1966 and never had any problems with any except the HRDlx. I've built a few of my own amps, and know what a quality component is.

So JACSTRAT, lighten up a little. For everyone who loves their HRDlx, there are just as many who don't. If you really worked professionally, you would know that a reliable amp is usually more important than an incredibly fabulous sounding amp. I tried to like my HRDlx, but it wouldn't let me. And for the record, I've played 50's and 60's Fender guitars that were dogs too and wouldn't brag about them, but I've also played some real gems from the same era.

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Post subject: Re: Pro Junior as a practice amp?
Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:51 pm
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63supro wrote:
+1 It does exist and Beemer you are absolutely correct. People like what they like, but most working pros I known and worked with for over 40 years would agree with you. And yeah, I also played a 76 Master Volume 100 watt Twin Reverb for over 30 years and loved that reliable workhorse. There's no bragging or snobbery here. And no, the electronics are not superior in any way way in these stock amps. Illinois caps are cheaply produced in Taiwan as are many of the other components. The boards are cheaply made and there were serious problems with the early Mexican made HRDlx amps and that's also a fact and it's well. documented. My HRdlx was a dog through and through. I never said it sounded horrible, it just wasn't reliable. The drive channel was unusable in mine though. It was like an icepick in the forehead. I have owned many Fender amps since 1966 and never had any problems with any except the HRDlx. I've built a few of my own amps, and know what a quality component is.

So JACSTRAT, lighten up a little. For everyone who loves their HRDlx, there are just as many who don't. If you really worked professionally, you would know that a reliable amp is usually more important than an incredibly fabulous sounding amp. I tried to like my HRDlx, but it wouldn't let me. And for the record, I've played 50's and 60's Fender guitars that were dogs too and wouldn't brag about them, but I've also played some real gems from the same era.


+2

As a practice amp for bedroom noodling or garage jams, one could likely do a lot worse than a Pro Junior (Behringer and Johnson come to mind). But as a *serious* tool for studio or stage use......let's just say there are more capable fish swimming about in the deep blue. And one cannot toss a Pro Junior about as with the Fender's of yore -- they're just not built for the type of abuse that made those old tweeds and blackfaces legendary.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Pro Junior as a practice amp?
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:35 am
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I agree 1,000% Arjay. And before anyone says,"Jeff Beck uses them" yes Jeff has used them or so he says, but I seriously doubt they're stock in any sense of the word or possibly used as a backline ad for Fender, especially since he started hanging a Fender banner on stage at many of his shows.

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Post subject: Re: Pro Junior as a practice amp?
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:36 am
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The first, last, and only time I ever saw Jeff Beck was in 1969 at Kiel Auditorium in St. Louis, during his "Truth" tour. He was playing real amps back then......

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Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Pro Junior as a practice amp?
Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:48 am
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Heck, even mine aren't stock, but the OP is asking about a practice amp and I think it would be fine.

I've also played Marshall Plexis and other high end amps, but it's not what the OP is asking about.

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