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Post subject: The Fender Logo - A Question of Ethics.
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:14 pm
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Now, I've seen these kinds of cases before - A kid replaces his Squier logo with an aftermarket Fender one, hoping it will gain him some sort of fake street cred that his money doesn't match.

I've got a different dilemma:

I bought a vintage 60's mustang neck off of Ebay not too long ago. The "Mustang" portion of the logo has been scratched off. I'm using this for a jaguar, using all Fender parts except for the pickups.

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First Q:

Seeing as the jaguar is a higher end instrument than the mustang, is it wrong or deceptive to replace the scratched off mustang logo with a jaguar logo?

Second Q:

Is it wrong to replace the logo entirely with an aftermarket "Fender Jaguar" logo?

Third Q:

Should I be supporting businesses that make their money off of selling fake Fender logos, possibly to forgers and con artists?

I'm not too keen on the partial logo look, and I definitely don't want a blank headstock, so unless Fender were to sell me an authentic logo, which I highly doubt, I'm rather stumped as to what I should do about this.

Thoughts?


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Post subject: Re: The Fender Logo - A Question of Ethics.
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:39 pm
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AltarOfSurf wrote:
Now, I've seen these kinds of cases before - A kid replaces his Squier logo with an aftermarket Fender one, hoping it will gain him some sort of fake street cred that his money doesn't match.

I've got a different dilemma:

I bought a vintage 60's mustang neck off of Ebay not too long ago. The "Mustang" portion of the logo has been scratched off. I'm using this for a jaguar, using all Fender parts except for the pickups.

First Q:

Seeing as the jaguar is a higher end instrument than the mustang, is it wrong or deceptive to replace the scratched off mustang logo with a jaguar logo?

Second Q:

Is it wrong to replace the logo entirely with an aftermarket "Fender Jaguar" logo?

Third Q:

Should I be supporting businesses that make their money off of selling fake Fender logos, possibly to forgers and con artists?

I'm not too keen on the partial logo look, and I definitely don't want a blank headstock, so unless Fender were to sell me an authentic logo, which I highly doubt, I'm rather stumped as to what I should do about this.

Thoughts?


Q1: Yes, even more so if you sell it and don't tell the buyer.
Q2: See Q1 Answer. Especially if "After Market" means fake!
Q3: Can't answer, only your own morals can answer that one, but I wouldn't do it.

Don't mean to be so blunt, but you asked and we have seen so many "Fakes" out there and that is just plain wrong.

T2

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Post subject: Re: The Fender Logo - A Question of Ethics.
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:51 pm
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As an alternative to a logo, you could always put some sort of graphic design on the headstock. That would give your guitar a bit of uniqueness.

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Post subject: Re: The Fender Logo - A Question of Ethics.
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:09 pm
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eBay is flooded with cheap Squiers that have had nasty third-party logos applied, I don't think they fool anyone. If anything, a fake logo highlights the shortcomings of a cheap instrument and probably lowers the value. If I buy a Squier then I don't want it to say Fender on the headstock.

Having said that, OP's dilemma is more subtle. I'd say that if it was a complete restoration of a guitar to original condition and there was no other alternative thenreplacing the original model name is just about acceptable. Not sure about the Fender logo though. As for the idea of replacing the entire logo ... well, I'd count that as making the guitar appear to be something it's not.

And yes, I'd also say it's wrong financially to support people who produce fake logos. FMIC's legal department would probably say the same thing but in a more strongly worded fashion.

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Post subject: Re: The Fender Logo - A Question of Ethics.
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:11 pm
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I think the long and short of it is that if I'm buying a Jaguar with a Mustang neck and no model name then I'd prefer to be told that up front rather than know I'm buying something slightly fake.

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Post subject: Re: The Fender Logo - A Question of Ethics.
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:36 pm
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I would never buy anything off of eBay, but that's just me. I'd rather shop at an established dealer or that I know I can relatively trust. That site always gave me a bad feeling for some reason. It just seems like it's pirate central there and often overpriced.

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Post subject: Re: The Fender Logo - A Question of Ethics.
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:40 pm
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GilgaFrank wrote:
As for the idea of replacing the entire logo ... well, I'd count that as making the guitar appear to be something it's not.
I disagree. The guitar is not quite a Jaguar, it's certainly not a Mustang, nor is it a Jagstang. So if it's not actually a Fender model, then is it really even a Fender? It's a Frankenguitar made of Fender parts.

GilgaFrank wrote:
I think the long and short of it is that if I'm buying a Jaguar with a Mustang neck and no model name then I'd prefer to be told that up front rather than know I'm buying something slightly fake.
I definitely agree with that. If the OP ever decides to sell it, he needs to be honest with potential buyers - that is the truly ethical issue.

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Post subject: Re: The Fender Logo - A Question of Ethics.
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:51 pm
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It's unethical to try to deceive people, and by putting an aftermarket sticker on the headstock you are making the guitar out to be something that it is not.

Unethical? Yes. Is it a big deal? Probably not, unless you are trying to sell the guitar and pass it off as a genuine Fender. That would be a big problem...


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Post subject: Re: The Fender Logo - A Question of Ethics.
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:06 pm
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Real simple answer, just don't do it. It is wrong on all accounts IMO and if you are asking advice I think you already know what your heart is telling you.
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Post subject: Re: The Fender Logo - A Question of Ethics.
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:12 pm
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The logo (or lack thereof) isn't going to change how well the instrument sounds or plays one iota. Just rock the damn thing and leave it alone.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: The Fender Logo - A Question of Ethics.
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:19 pm
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Leave it as is.

Looks pretty badass.

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Post subject: Re: The Fender Logo - A Question of Ethics.
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:22 pm
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I'm not trying to lead anyone astray. This is a genuine Fender replacement neck and parts for a vintage body and some hardware that was found on the body in it's modded state. The neck is stamped at the heel as a mustang. I got a '65 mustang neck so that if anyone did buy or steal the instrument they would have to replace the neck or try to pass it off as a factory oddity, which would require lots of verification. While such accidents did happen, mustang necks got thrown on jaguars with jag decals, I've even seen a bound slab neck on a '65 jag. That said, the factory f'up story is highly unlikely and subject to authentication. At the same time, vintage mustang necks were up to the exact same par as jag necks, and use the same building techniques, finish, etc.... So I'm not sacrificing anything but value. Win-win?

Bottom line - If one were to sell it, you would get the most money by passing it off as a '65 with a refin, switched factory neck, and mostly replaced parts, which values it at barely more than the money I've put into it, mostly due to the justified skepticism of collectors.

So take this into consideration, please. I'm not going to cheat or scam anyone.

I disagree with the "not a Fender" comments, though. If you were to replace a warped neck on a strat with a same spec genuine replacement part, does it become a bitser? It's all Fender, through and through, and more of a genuine Jag than any of the various reissues. I have gone to many lengths to make sure that even the screws are genuine. The only aftermarket parts are the custom wound pickups, but if you replace the pups in a Fender, does it become a partscaster?

The main concern boils down to value. While this is almost EXACTLY the same as a jag neck, the heel stamp starts with 8, indication that it is a mustang neck. This means nothing but a decrease in the value of the neck, and thus, the final instrument.

Thanks for all the replies, I'd love to hear a mod's view on things.


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Post subject: Re: The Fender Logo - A Question of Ethics.
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:26 pm
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I don't mind there not being a logo on a guitar. I hate when people put logos on replacement necks. Don't try to hide what the guitar really is.


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Post subject: Re: The Fender Logo - A Question of Ethics.
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:28 pm
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$@!&#, I'm gonna give it to you straight.

Keep it as is. It'l hold its value, and you won't mess up that beautiful lacquer.

Keep a printout of the ebay auction (price redacted)

Keep it as it is, I wouldn't want to see an old, worn neck with a shiny new decal, it just wouldn't look right.

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Post subject: Re: The Fender Logo - A Question of Ethics.
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:40 pm
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tbazzone wrote:
I hate when people put logos on replacement necks. Don't try to hide what the guitar really is.


Thing is, we're not talking aftermarket. Real '65 neck, nitro finish, pearl dots, etc. - I'm not trying to fake anything. This is the real deal.

Buxxom, and others, I get where you are coming from. Thing is, I'm not at all worried about value, and this thing is bugging me as is. It just looks weird and off balance, and it looks substantially worse in person.

This might be a game changer:

I don't plan on selling this. Ever. A jag has always been my dream guitar, and this has been a restoration I've looked forward to for years now. I don't feel bad putting a logo on there, I want the logo to be right, to look right, but I would feel badly supporting businesses that make fraudulent money. Honestly, the only way I would feel great about this is if Fender were to offer a replacement, and that ain't gonna happen.

I'm thinking I might just need to kick my conscience to the curb. :wink:


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