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Post subject: Considering my next acoustic guitar
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:13 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I've narrowed the list down to five and would like very much to hear from those with first hand / intimate knowledge of the following finalists:


Thanks & Cheers!
BM

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Post subject: Re: Considering my next acoustic guitar
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:55 pm
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Martin is known for their craftsmanship and sound...but I wouldn't own one(or any acoustic for that matter) without the proper finish needed to protect it from pick damage. That's my take on the D15.


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Post subject: Re: Considering my next acoustic guitar
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:08 pm
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The dx1 Rae is a nice acoustic, if you can get past the stratabond neck.
IMO, I couldn't.
The Taylor has laminate sapele back and sides, the Taylor solid RW
Taylor is about 200 bones more.
I would go for the Taylor between these two

I was looking at the Taylor 214ce laminated back and sides and the Martin
Omcpa4 sapele but went for the rosewood back and sides.
The Taylor was really really nice too.
Uggg but the stratabond neck is IMO counterproductive

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Post subject: Re: Considering my next acoustic guitar
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:02 pm
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My Martin DC-1E has a Stratabond neck and it's great ! The top is solid Spruce while the sides and back are solid Brazilian Sapele, Indian Rosewood Fretboard, bridge and headstock overlay, Spruce hybrid scalloped A-frame/pre-war X-frame bracing. It has terrific sustain and that classic Martin sound.

The D-1 series was Martin's attempt to produce a mid-priced guitar in Nazareth, PA in hopes of introducing many to the Martin Brand with plans that in future, they would 'graduate' to the higher-priced models.

A couple years after introduction, costs increased to the point that Martin was selling the D-1 series for less than it cost to produce, so it was discontinued in 2009. They could have simply raised prices, but that would have defeated the purpose of the line.

Subsequently, Martin began producing a similarly priced line, though to make the numbers work, production was shifted to Mexico and the back/sides were now made of HPL, and the fretboard was now made of Richlite.

Stratabond is a ply of quarter-sawn White Birch bonded together under low pressure with a resin. The Martin Stratabond necks are made of a 30-32 ply blank. They are super strong, help create great sustain and are incredibly stable (though equipped with a Truss Rod system, rarely is a Truss Rod adjustment ever needed) - not prone to twisting or moving like a 1 piece neck. Realize that a 2,3,4 or 5 piece neck is similar insofar as it too is a neck made up of several plies.

Martin is using Stratabond and other 'engineered' materials because of increasing scarcity of quality tonewoods. But, Stratabond has been around for 100 years. It was invented by Rutland Plywood Corporation in response to a US Army Air Corps demand for a material which was strong, lightweight and consistent for aircraft propeller production on WWI aircraft. Since then, several musical instruments as well as some high-end firearms stocks are made of this material.

Opposition to the Stratabond neck seems to come from three areas; Purists and Guitar Snobs (many who have never played a Stratabond necked guitar) who believe that anything not a traditional wood neck is sacrelidge. People who don't like the feel of the Stratabond neck. Finally, those who don't like the aesthetic or color of the Stratabond neck - the color is imparted in the manufacturing process in the resin and the closest to a stained wood is called Rust.

Well, you're not likely to convince the 1st group of anything with regards to Stratabond.

Some Stratabond necks can feel rough or 'different', though these will usually 'polish' smooth with use and/or their owners will adapt. They can otherwise be sanded 'smoother' to the point where they feel exactly like a traditional wood neck. Finishing can be either Lacquer, Poly or simply a good paste wax.

Color, while more difficult, can nonetheless be altered. Some have sanded these necks and then used traditional stains and finishes with positive results.

In the end, it's up to you to decide, but I believe we will be seeing more and more guitars switching to this material and it will continue to gain acceptance as it becomes more commonplace.

cheers!

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'11 FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. CAR '57 Stratocaster (SN# LE02639)
'14 American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster
'12 Telebration Empress Telecaster
'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
'12 FSR Telecaster HH
'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
'13 Lanikai Tenor Ukulele


Last edited by Lightnin MN on Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:28 pm, edited 11 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Considering my next acoustic guitar
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:10 pm
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I own a Taylor 214. It's my campfire guitar. My 814CE Limited is my main acoustic. The 14 is an Auditorium shape and the 10 is a dreadnought. I'm not big on dreadnoughts but that's just me. My 214 is about 10 years old by now and at the time I bought it the 200 series was the lowest series Taylor made. (no golf pun intended) Now they make a 100 series.

Taylor cheapened the 200 series a couple years after I bought mine. Plywood tops instead of solid spruce like mine. The newer plywood 100s and 200s seem to exhibit all the brightness and lack of bottom end that many folks mistakenly attribute to all Taylors. If I was in the market for a lower end Taylor today I think I'd skip the 214 altogether and go to a GA3. A touch pricier but noticeably sweeter in terms of roundness of tone. I think the 200s might be just a touch louder than the GA3 so I guess it depends on what you want. If you typically play around the fire or kitchen table with several other players, the 200s will likely cut through better.

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Post subject: Re: Considering my next acoustic guitar
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:22 pm
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Very informative, I don't like stratabond for 1 reason.
Looks like cheap ply wood, IMHO
I'm partial purist, my martin has richlite fretboard.
Maybe I fit under guitar snob, lol
In all fairness, I tried the guitars with stratabond necks, and thought
The guitar sounds great, but.....
I will say this, if my budget was in the 5-6 bills range, would definitely
Consider these martins.

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Post subject: Re: Considering my next acoustic guitar
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:34 am
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I tried everything in the DX1 money range that i could get my hands on, over this side of the orb.... and 50% again dearer and 50% cheaper... before the really expensive stuff. The DX1's feel rounded, unparralled volume for dreadnought size,, full as all ....... tone.....It just felt a step above the maton's guilds, Taka's and i think i played a Taylor at the same price point.....they all felt mid top end heavy trebly unbalanced in comparrasion.....Even though they were great acoustics....
...... Here's the kick though....This was 6-7 years ago and i was not aware of the neck for 3-6 months..... So as much as a barb as that is on realising i bought a Martin with a composite neck...... its also testament to just how good a harmonic, resonate, balanced perfectly engineered instruments Martin's are....I may have been lucky and got a magic one?? Who knows... But seriously consider the Martin's..... I still to this day pick up $2400 Col Clarke's and just go naaaa..... My DX1 kills it...... :shock:

My 2 cents anywaz...

Cheers...
:|

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Post subject: Re: Considering my next acoustic guitar
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:43 am
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Laminates don't sound better with age, and for the person who said about a finish protecting against pick damage, none will. Only changing picking style will help that. Thayer only happens when musicians don't care or have good technique.

Stratabond necks are different for sure, but are strong and stable. Some people stain them darker. They play well too. Don't let anyone try to steer you from Black Richlite fingerboards either. I have it on my OMCPA4 and it plays and sounds great and feels a bit like Ebony. Get used to alternative materials, they're here to stay.

Some of the low end Martin guitars sound scary good as do Taylor's. just try a bunch out in your price range and see what happens. Parkwood makes some nice guitars as well as Lagg bad Breedlove and many others.

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Post subject: Re: Considering my next acoustic guitar
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:01 pm
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Hey guys thanks for the replies. As always they're very much appreciated and also quite informative.

With regard to specs and laminates versus solid wood, my position has always been strum-first-ask-questions-later. The two most important things for me are how the guitar sounds and how the guitar plays. If it scores high in both these categories then I'll consider how it looks, how it feels in my hands, and finally I'll take a gander at the price tag.

I've tried all the guitars on the list and to my ears they all sound different but they all sound good. They also play well. As for the Stratabond neck of the DX1 RAE, I think the funkiness of the color is part of its unique charm. :) What doesn't work as well for me, is the "feel" (the finish) of the sides and back.

If you have other candidates in the under $2k category please let me know.

Cheers!
BM

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Post subject: Re: Considering my next acoustic guitar
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:15 pm
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Bluer Monkey wrote:
Hey guys thanks for the replies. As always they're very much appreciated and also quite informative.

If you have other candidates in the under $2k category please let me know.

Cheers!
BM



Highly recommend you check out Blueridge guitars, specifically the BLUERIDGE BR-180A DREADNOUGHT or BR-180CE for Cutaway model (solid Sitka top on Cutaway, not Adirondack).

These are excellent guitars receiving great reviews. Craftmanship and Materials are top-knotch and playability and Tone is right up there with the Big Boys, very Martinesque since they're patterned after pre-war Martins. There probably isn't a better value-for-money out there.

In the case of the BR-180A, you could easily spend twice the asking price and not get all the woods and features in this guitar.

Street price is $600-$700 less than on Saga's site - see it at Elderly Instruments here: Blueridge BR-180A.

cheers!

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'11 FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. CAR '57 Stratocaster (SN# LE02639)
'14 American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster
'12 Telebration Empress Telecaster
'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
'12 FSR Telecaster HH
'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
'13 Lanikai Tenor Ukulele


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Post subject: Re: Considering my next acoustic guitar
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:50 pm
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Lightning, I don't understand what's wrong with adirondack? That's what's
Being used on more expensive martins. Is it a better wood?
Now if your looking at 500-600 bucks, laminate woods are no big deal.
But if its more than a 1000. Would like some appointments like solid wood
Back and sides and wood neck.
Now, I went to guitar center today to be fair, tried the om sized with a stratabond
Neck. I was blown away by the tone, a lot of low end and high end.
Sounded really great. Looking at the neck, it doesn't look as bad as
My mind had envisioned after a brief encounter.
Just depends how much you wanna spend.
I have a dreadnaught Yamaha 735 makes a great knock around guitar.
Sounds awesome, guarantee you, laminated woods were used.
I decided to pay 1200 -1500, I wanted a higher quality acoustic that would ate
gracefully.

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Post subject: Re: Considering my next acoustic guitar
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:56 pm
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bluesstrattone wrote:
Lightning, I don't understand what's wrong with adirondack? That's what's
Being used on more expensive martins. Is it a better wood?
Now if your looking at 500-600 bucks, laminate woods are no big deal.
But if its more than a 1000. Would like some appointments like solid wood
Back and sides and wood neck.
Now, I went to guitar center today to be fair, tried the om sized with a stratabond
Neck. I was blown away by the tone, a lot of low end and high end.
Sounded really great. Looking at the neck, it doesn't look as bad as
My mind had envisioned after a brief encounter.
Just depends how much you wanna spend.
I have a dreadnaught Yamaha 735 makes a great knock around guitar.
Sounds awesome, guarantee you, laminated woods were used.
I decided to pay 1200 -1500, I wanted a higher quality acoustic that would ate
gracefully.


Hey BlueST... Adirondack Spruce is considered the time-honored premier wood for the soundboard (top) of a guitar. There is NOTHING wrong with it ! I must have been unclear in my post.

The Blueridge I mentioned uses an Adirondack Spruce Top on the traditional Dreadnought but not on the Cutaway (Sitka). Personally I prefer a Cutaway, though many say the sound is compromised by the shape (maybe, maybe not to my ear). That is probably why Blueridge reserves the Adirondack for the traditional body.

But, it's getting scarce and more expensive so you don't often find it in a $1200 guitar like the BR-180A (A=Adirondack Spruce). The tonal quality of Adirondack Spruce is measurably better than Sitka Spruce, which is again usually better than a laminate, plus it will age well.

I LOVE the Blueridge Guitars, but the one I had for a week didn't physically 'fit' me (see my post GXD). My option was to exchange it for this NOS Martin DC-1E. I think it was a terrific exchange, but only because I got a quality, all solid wood guitar (albeit with the Stratabond Neck) that plays well and has terrific Tone.

Blueridges are really flying under the radar right now, but I expect that to change. I'm gonna try one of their 'Contemporary Series' Dreadnoughts to see if these 'fit' me OK. If so, I'm gonna start saving my sheckles because I really want one.

cheers!

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'11 FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. CAR '57 Stratocaster (SN# LE02639)
'14 American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster
'12 Telebration Empress Telecaster
'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
'12 FSR Telecaster HH
'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
'13 Lanikai Tenor Ukulele


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Post subject: Re: Considering my next acoustic guitar
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:15 pm
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Thanks for clarifying.
What I've read, blue ridge guitars are very well made, solid woods and
more traditional appointments.

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Post subject: Re: Considering my next acoustic guitar
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:26 am
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Yep, Adirondack Spruce is a premier top tone wood. All that being said, it's not just the name of the wood or even the fact that a guitar is solid wood, but the quality of the the wood that matters most and the drying and aging process of the tone woods, bracing etc. I have a cheap 1972's Ibanez acoustic that is a replica of a Martin D28. It's solid Rosewood back and sides with a spruce top, rosewood fingerboard etc. It sounds nothing like the real deal at all. Even though it's a Dreadnaught, my Martin OMCPA4 is an Orchestra Model with a smaller body and blows it away in tone, bottom, mid and top end but also projection.

Go with your ears and don't worry too much about the hype. If an HPL back and side Stratabond neck Martin does it for you over a Taylor or Chinese built all wood construction guitar, by all means go for it. Lately, I've been going for American made guitars because I have enough Japanese and other cheap guitars. It's not snobbery, it's just wanting something nice.

Originally I was looking at an Epiphone Masterbuilt acoustic and was really disappointed in both the quality of the instrument and the setup. One that was brand new had the bridge lifting. Epiphone has a lifetime warranty, but if it's in the shop all the time what good is it.

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Post subject: Re: Considering my next acoustic guitar
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:33 am
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talking about the guitars finish taking the strain. I own a seagull 12 string on which the solid cedar top is unfinished, save I assume a bit of wax or oil. the top scratches very, very easily, you can feel the individual ridges of the grain.

however even unfinished, it is sturdier than I thought. and while I don't go much on the tonewood debate in electric guitars, im sold on how important it is in acoustics. and for me an acoustic that isn't covered in any sort of sprayed on finish is a winner. this thing sounds incredible, with the right strings.

from now on, I will happily put up the with the 'damage' you see on my guitar if it means getting a better sounding guitar. of course that isn't how it works 100% of the time, but with this guitar, to my ears, its a winning combo.

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