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Post subject: Plagiarism Killed The Copy Cat
Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:54 am
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Aspiring Musician
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I recently came up with a musical phrase, melody or whatever when I suddenly realized that it sounds like a song that I'd heard before. Looking closer into it I found that the first note and last note of the phrase was the same as that particular song that I'd heard before. So I just changed the ending to the phrase with a different note and now it sounds okay, I guess. I think the phrase has a Tango-like beat to it, not exactly the most creative beat but I digress. I wonder if I can disguise the beat somehow? Maybe, maybe not. Anyway, have any of you come up with what you thought was original music, only to find out that it 'twas not? :?:


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Post subject: Re: Plagiarism Killed The Copy Cat
Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:14 pm
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And here all this time I thought it was video that killed the radio star.

:wink:

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Post subject: Re: Plagiarism Killed The Copy Cat
Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:30 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I was almost turned down in school when my
composition was found to be a theme by Schubert,
and I couldn´t recall having listened to that piece consciously.
But the principal let me go ahead, reminding me that it´s not
really about the theme but how you unfold it.

In the jingle buisiness, one is constantly asked to insinuate
a well known theme and yet have it stand on its own.
I´m glad I quit and though I miss the money, I don´t have to
spend all night disguising an arrangement to "Unchain my Heart." :P

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Post subject: Re: Plagiarism Killed The Copy Cat
Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:32 pm
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This happens to everyone who writes songs. All music is derivative and similarities are inevitable. There are only so many notes and so many rhythms. We are all products of our influences, likes and appreciations. Certain melodies play over and over in our heads. Usually it is totally subconscious when these influences manifest themselves and it is completely unintentional.

It even happens to big time songwriters. It happens so often there is actually a technical name for it, "cryptomnesia." By definition cryptomnesia occurs when a forgotten memory returns without it being recognized as memory. The person believes it is a new and original inspiration instead of something remembered from a previous exposure to it. It is a memory bias of sorts. It happens in all art with impromptu stand-up comedians being exceptionally vulnerable to cryptomnesia and in fact probably more vulnerable than songwriters who have a chance to catch it or have someone else catch it before it winds up in court. People that this happens to are usually not deliberately engaging in plagiarism but rather experiencing a memory as if it were a new idea or a unique inspiration.

Nobody caught this cryptomnesia until it was too late. George Harrison was almost immediately sued when "My Sweet Lord" was released because it sounded so much like "He's So Fine" as recorded by the Chiffons that it was indefensible when the two songs are played one after another. Ronald Mack was the Chiffons first manager and he wrote "He's So Fine" with publishing rights held by Bright Tunes Corporation which was the publishing company owned by the Tokens. The Tokens were the musicians playing on the Chiffons recording too by the way. The "My Sweet Lord/He's So Fine" lawsuit was filed by Bright Tunes in 1971 but dragged on for about two decades. About 5 years into it Harrison was judged to be guilty of "Subconscious Plagarism" by the court. However before the action got to the penalty phase, which took another ten years, a man named Allen Klein who was a one-time Harrison manager and had been his legal adviser during the early phase of the lawsuit actually bought Bright Tunes Corporation outright. Just before the penalty phase was to begin Klein sold Bright Tunes to Harrison for exactly his purchase price. This should have ended the mess, yet it took the court nearly another decade to close the case. Fortunately Harrison had the cash. The Bright Tunes catalog is rich with New York area music often included in movie soundtracks, but it probably wasn't worth the nearly $600,000 it cost Harrison at the time.

There have been medleys of the two songs made. In a move hardly anyone saw coming, the Chiffons recorded and released "My Sweet Lord" at one point during the litigation. How they got clearance for the lyrics is beyond me. Harrison also wrote and recorded a song titled "This Song" in reaction the lawsuit. He however refrained from outright retaliation.

The general public probably wondered how this happened to a superstar like George Harrison, but most songwriters know exactly how it happened. The real wonder for me was not that it happened, but rather that nobody caught it before the recording was released.


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Post subject: Re: Plagiarism Killed The Copy Cat
Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:39 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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There is no original music. Some just try less hard to copy than others.

As said above, this was supposedly "borrowed"




"Godless" By the title, I guess they're looking for the 'homage' get-out clause to take effect.



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Post subject: Re: Plagiarism Killed The Copy Cat
Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:05 pm
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some times similarities can happen, in jazz compositions those musical similarities can be very interesting. if you recognize that you are copying some one elses work, stop doing that it isn't cool.

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Post subject: Re: Plagiarism Killed The Copy Cat
Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:55 pm
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Brother Dave...great info and sharing, but and maybe I am wrong here, but George Harrison got screwed there...those two songs are NOTHING alike IMHO! Both are nice songs, but I just don't hear it at all!

For them to find him guilty of Subconscious Plagiarism is just a way of saving face...as this lawsuit should have NEVER even got that far...probably why it took so long in the penalty phase, they new GH was innocent, but now what do you do to him since the verdict was SO wrong?!

FWIW

T2

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Post subject: Re: Plagiarism Killed The Copy Cat
Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:19 pm
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Thanks Brother Dave!
I am coming across the term cryptomnesia
in my study of Carl Jung´s work; you´ve pointed me in the right direction. :D

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Post subject: Re: Plagiarism Killed The Copy Cat
Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:23 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Harrison definitely hard done by.

The two songs do share a progression, but that is almost impossible to avoid. The example I posted was very much signalling its intention to copy.

Plagiarism is a legal minefield at the best of times, the interpretations are so vague. Sometimes suits are plainly mercenary. Recently, Men at Work were successfully sued for the 80s hit Down Under. A little known publishing firm won damages on the flute solo, which they claimed comes from a trad. song, which they now own the rights to.

The comparisons were not convincing at all. The writer has long been a journeyman musician, that was his only hit (which no one bothered to sue at the time), and the suit cost him dearly.


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Post subject: Re: Plagiarism Killed The Copy Cat
Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:39 pm
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Check this mashup of the Chiffons and Harrison. It is really close in spots. Harrison's problem wouldn't have been so huge if it wasn't in the same key, even if the chord changes are at slightly different times. Chord progressions usually follow long standing conventions in music theory. It is a minefield. You could do this with any number of songs and find similarities.



To quote my sainted Pappy, "All your music sounds alike to me." LOL


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Post subject: Re: Plagiarism Killed The Copy Cat
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:03 am
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I wrote a piece I was really pleased with, had Pink Floydy slide guitars and Fender Rhodes piano all over it. Then someone pointed out it was the chord pattern from Gloria Gaynor's I Will Survive.

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Post subject: Re: Plagiarism Killed The Copy Cat
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:19 am
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Everyone's a plagiarist...



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Post subject: Re: Plagiarism Killed The Copy Cat
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:39 am
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Post subject: Re: Plagiarism Killed The Copy Cat
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:08 am
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The Rolling Stones had to give writing credit to K.D. Lang because the chorus in the song Anybody Seen My Baby (1997 Bridges to Babylon) sounded similar to Lang's Constant Craving. Jagger and Richards claimed to have never heard the song before and gave credit to Lang to avoid a lawsuit.




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Post subject: Re: Plagiarism Killed The Copy Cat
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:56 am
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I'll freely admit that most of the songs I write are musically "derivative"...but few, if any, are outright ripoffs.

It works to my advantage, much like our brethren (Mike07502, posted above) who was formerly a jingle writer.
Many people have said, "I like that song, it seems familiar, but I can't place it..." I don't point out the inspiration from whence it came...let 'em figure out on their own.

The (musical) portion of my songwriting often comes from my inability to "properly" play another person's song...I'll start trying to figure out a song I like, trip over the melody, the riff or the rhythm, and think, "Hey, that wasn't bad...let's try some different lyrics..."

I stumbled upon the main riff and melody for three distinct songs I've written due my continued failure to play the Fabulous Thunderbirds' version of "Running Shoes" (which I still don't really play properly, :lol: )...I stumbled upon the "new" riff, changed keys, sped it up/slowed it down, added new lyrics, and voila! New song!

I've often wondered why Keef-n-Mick didn't get sued for the vulgar little ditty "Star-Star" and Keef's solo song "I Could Have Stood You Up"...musically, they are blatant ripoffs of every Chuck Berry song ever written...and Chuck's not a big enough fan of anybody to let it slide.

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