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Post subject: Re: What TRULY drives the price of a new guitar?
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:00 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:47 pm
Posts: 748
I agree that guitars are not rocket science.
The fact is guitars are one of the easiest instruments to craft.
Yet that doesn´t make for an even playfield nor does it strip things
down to a "slap it together" kind of job.
To me, it means something when I learn that a guitar was
factory assembled, team-built or built by ONE craftsman.

The outsource practice in the name of competitiveness, with such
drastic differences between regions, is not without controversy
or secondary effects.
It made me smile when I read that economists spend the first half of
the year predicting what will happen, and the second half explaining
why it didn´t happen.

In a war of wages, I stand by the principle of favoring dignity and well paid labor.
If I were in the US, I would buy american-made instruments. We all have to
work out the equation of the cost of living. For my part I celebrate high wages
and a culture of pride. So I cut corners elsewhere, but not on items that remind
me that "the universe is a first class place".

I contest the thought that Fender has a bigger profit margin on
their Custom Shop instruments. I think of the fixed costs and pay rol
of such a plant, the work ethic...That label on a guitar is no myth.

A company like Fender, I marvel at the catalog and market research.
Even doing things so proficiently, I doubt it is a financial dream.
Such tough challenges buisiness faces in this contemporary economic
laberynth.

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Post subject: Re: What TRULY drives the price of a new guitar?
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:00 pm
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Professional Musician
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:32 pm
Posts: 2459
Location: Through The Gates Of Mordor..
mike07502 wrote:
I contest the thought that Fender has a bigger profit margin on
their Custom Shop instruments. I think of the fixed costs and pay rol
of such a plant, the work ethic...That label on a guitar is no myth.


I beg to differ. Yeah- they probably are paid better than any other factory worker making guitars, but if you were to say- buy the exact materials of any of their stuff and price it of your own, you would be pleasantly surprised. Even go to the extent of finding a luthier to make a replica- albeit except for the logo- you would be surprised also.

I can spec a customshop level guitar from a local luthier for $2k- and thats going to be something with a figured neck, a figured top etc.. all done by routers. Why is it that the same guitar made by someone with a similar skill set, with the same materials in the Fender Customshop retails that said guitar for $6500? at entry price point?

The Customshop do put a more hands-on approach to making guitars, but in reality- the fact that you believe you are buying something from a desired brand, even more so- a 'craftsman' has created the dream guitar for you, is reason to charge more than a price of an average used car. The fact that they can only be made in small numbers by a select few- will give mojo- and you pay for mojo.

Can you justify that? I cant. I can justify a custom made instrument, but I cant justify $6500 for one that has largely, been made on routing machines.

Custom Arch-top Jazz guitars, Handmade Acoustic instruments, Violin & stringed instrument makers- are on a completely different level to someone with a router & excellent woodworking skills.
A set of chisels and a set of plains mixed wioth a good eye for detail.. Thats real Lutherie right there.

Take this guitar for example:

1993 Customshop Setneck Tele
Image

This is in todays Custom definition, a masterbuilt guitar. To have this replicated, it would be for me at least $10k. Not offered on regular Customshop line, anything with a set neck is going to set you back hefty thousands and a very long and painful wait. Very pretty though.

Compare to this- Special Edition Custom Tele- flame maple over mahogany, set neck, seymour duncan pickups and abalone inlays. I personally like the spalted maple model. Very nice- $1700. However is this guitar made any different to the set neck tele above?

Image

Whats going to drive the price difference? Marketing foremost, also labour costs. But these two instruments are on a completely level playing field in terms of craftsmanship, appointments, timber, etc.. I cannot for the sake of me, justify a masterbuilder to build be an identical instrument for nearly 10 times the cost.. to have a very similar outcome. A good example would also be the Clapton 'Blackie' build at $25,000 a piece at 275 pieces globally- ..really? :?

It's marketing hype- nothing more. No-one needs a Customshop guitar, but they are marketed to the point where you actually feel you really do need it. Because you feel you need one, the price will relect that thus in turn- at some point you will pay whatever the cost to own one= a hefty price tag. Apple and Gibson use the same technique, I must say its very clever. :)

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Post subject: Re: What TRULY drives the price of a new guitar?
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:53 pm
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Amateur
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:31 pm
Posts: 116
Blertles wrote:
mike07502 wrote:
I contest the thought that Fender has a bigger profit margin on
their Custom Shop instruments. I think of the fixed costs and pay rol
of such a plant, the work ethic...That label on a guitar is no myth.


I beg to differ. Yeah- they probably are paid better than any other factory worker making guitars, but if you were to say- buy the exact materials of any of their stuff and price it of your own, you would be pleasantly surprised. Even go to the extent of finding a luthier to make a replica- albeit except for the logo- you would be surprised also.

I can spec a customshop level guitar from a local luthier for $2k- and thats going to be something with a figured neck, a figured top etc.. all done by routers. Why is it that the same guitar made by someone with a similar skill set, with the same materials in the Fender Customshop retails that said guitar for $6500? at entry price point?

The Customshop do put a more hands-on approach to making guitars, but in reality- the fact that you believe you are buying something from a desired brand, even more so- a 'craftsman' has created the dream guitar for you, is reason to charge more than a price of an average used car. The fact that they can only be made in small numbers by a select few- will give mojo- and you pay for mojo.

Can you justify that? I cant. I can justify a custom made instrument, but I cant justify $6500 for one that has largely, been made on routing machines.

Custom Arch-top Jazz guitars, Handmade Acoustic instruments, Violin & stringed instrument makers- are on a completely different level to someone with a router & excellent woodworking skills.
A set of chisels and a set of plains mixed wioth a good eye for detail.. Thats real Lutherie right there.

Take this guitar for example:

1993 Customshop Setneck Tele
Image

This is in todays Custom definition, a masterbuilt guitar. To have this replicated, it would be for me at least $10k. Not offered on regular Customshop line, anything with a set neck is going to set you back hefty thousands and a very long and painful wait. Very pretty though.

Compare to this- Special Edition Custom Tele- flame maple over mahogany, set neck, seymour duncan pickups and abalone inlays. I personally like the spalted maple model. Very nice- $1700. However is this guitar made any different to the set neck tele above?

Image

Whats going to drive the price difference? Marketing foremost, also labour costs. But these two instruments are on a completely level playing field in terms of craftsmanship, appointments, timber, etc.. I cannot for the sake of me, justify a masterbuilder to build be an identical instrument for nearly 10 times the cost.. to have a very similar outcome. A good example would also be the Clapton 'Blackie' build at $25,000 a piece at 275 pieces globally- ..really? :?

It's marketing hype- nothing more. No-one needs a Customshop guitar, but they are marketed to the point where you actually feel you really do need it. Because you feel you need one, the price will relect that thus in turn- at some point you will pay whatever the cost to own one= a hefty price tag. Apple and Gibson use the same technique, I must say its very clever. :)


That's an interesting way to look at it. I'd love to see an honest pricing breakdown from Fender.

_________________
"Restless soul, this place will never be your home.
And if you wanna have it all, you've gotta let it all go.
Before the adult world strings you up and skins your skinny bones clean to the bone."

-Modern Life is War


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