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Post subject: Re: Tube Or Not Tube...That Is The Question
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:43 pm
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A funny story about the old rotary phones. I'm guessing about 1960, we had a black one like the surf green that's pictured above. My mom wanted one of the new princess phones so she called to say ours had fallen and cracked and needed to be replaced. I'm sitting in the living room watching TV and I see the phone truck pull up and I yell that the phone man is here. I hear banging and I walk in the other room to find my mom banging the phone against the floor trying to crack it. No way. She had to let the guy in and admit that she just wanted one of the new phones and there was nothing wrong with ours. He was cool and gave it to her. And we entered the age of the Jetson's! :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Tube Or Not Tube...That Is The Question
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:55 pm
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The best bass amps I've heard were all solid state. I'd say the opposite goes for the guitar amps, but there are tube driven pedals and preamps that sound amazing with a solid state head.


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Post subject: Re: Tube Or Not Tube...That Is The Question
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:42 pm
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1neeto wrote:
And the satisfaction of hanging up in someone by slamming the handset and hear the ding of the bell, is something many youngin's will never experience. :)


+1

8)

Actually there is something to be said in defense of the "modern" phone gear.

Our kitchen phone has a "hold" button and whenever some chowderhead hawking dick fertilizer, 0% mortgages, or gorgeous mail-order brides from the Ukraine interrupts us at supper time, I tell him that I've got something on the stove and to hang on. Then I put him on hold and time the duration of the call until the assclown figures out that he's been had and hangs up. One weisenheimer pushing time-share condos held on for twenty-five minutes. He was either very determined or very desperate.

:mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Tube Or Not Tube...That Is The Question
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:25 pm
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You can still pick up used Traynor,Ampeg,Harmony,Heathkit,Danelectro etc. tube amps from the 60s and 70s at a very reasonable price yet they have incredible tone, even old Kustom and Acoustic amps from that time period sound incredible despite being solid state.You can certainly go outside the big 3 or 4 in this period to get a great amp for a very low price.A couple of years ago I got a fabulous Traynor TS-15 solid state amp for just $150 and I have given several veteran guitar players the blind test to tell if it was tube or solid state and all have guessed that it was a tube amp,so it`s definitely not a given that solid state amps stink.

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Post subject: Re: Tube Or Not Tube...That Is The Question
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:42 pm
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guitslinger wrote:
...A couple of years ago I got a fabulous Traynor TS-15 solid state amp for just $150 and I have given several veteran guitar players the blind test to tell if it was tube or solid state and all have guessed that it was a tube amp,so it`s definitely not a given that solid state amps stink.


Your Sample Size may be too small... ;)

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Tube Or Not Tube...That Is The Question
Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:16 am
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Speaking of dial phones, my girlfriend's grandmother has a wall-mounted one in her basement (converted to an apartment) that actually still works. The whole place was probably done in 1974 and never changed. It is pure Brady Bunch. There's even an orange counter in the kitchen and brown paneling. There was orange red shag carpet, but they actually replaced that with tile because it was too messed up. Being down there made me want to have mutton chop sideburns and reminiscence about seeing Foghat and Wishbone Ash at the Civic Center in '75. :P Actually, I was 4 years old in 1975, so that would leave out the sideburns. :P Although, I'll bet such a show took place.

I don't have a smart phone, but my girlfriend does. I find it kind of annoying, but then again I'm like that with a lot of new tech at first. I guess it's just something you have to get used to.

I will admit, I do have a fascination with older and odd-ball amps, especially from the 60's and even the 70's. Here is a site that has some cool stuff about that: http://www.jedistar.com/index.htm That and stuff from other countries. For example: Guitars from the Soviet Union in the 60's: http://meatexz.com/cheesyguitars/index.html and all kinds of stuff. I know a lot of it can be horrendous compared to a Les Paul or Strat, but still interesting to me, at least.

I did have this little Multivox solid state amp that I got for free a long time ago. It was solid state and made what reminded me of peg board material, or that brownish, thin material that was used for the backs of speaker cabs for stereos from way back in the day. Particle board, maybe? I don't remember if they had MDF in the 70's, but maybe that's the equivalent to it. Anyway, it had some giant wall wart AC plug on the back of it, which I'm sure somebody later rigged on there and had a really interesting warm fuzz sound to it when you got it going. I wish I had it still, even though it probably wouldn't be too much use live. It could be recorded, though. I'll admit, I really didn't know about much about gear at the time, even though I could play bass really well. I didn't start getting into that sort of thing until a few years ago, because then I had access to all these sites with info. At least the internet is good for something besides looking at cat videos and porn. :P

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Post subject: Re: Tube Or Not Tube...That Is The Question
Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:30 am
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socal323 wrote:
Here's my 2cents,
Go with a tube amp. If the guitar thing doesn't work out for you and you decide to sell, you will at least be able to recover most of the up front cost as opposed to a solid state. It's like resale value on a Mercedes versus a Hyundai. Now if it does work out for you, we'll then there's nothing like the feel and sound of a tube amp. JMO.
Hope this helps.


Not always. It depends on the amp. My HRDlx didn't hold squat for value even though it was in mint condition. My 74 Champ on the other hand doubled in value from what I paid for it. But wait, if you factor in inflation, it didn't gain anything. I'd still go with a tube amp too just for tone of some of them. I have heard and played some pretty lame tube amps over the years too.

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Post subject: Re: Tube Or Not Tube...That Is The Question
Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:48 pm
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Do you wanna run with the big dawgs or just stay on the porch and play with the puppies?

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All of these artists used solid state amps live or in performance. Eric Clapton recorded "Motherless Children" with one of these:

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Post subject: Re: Tube Or Not Tube...That Is The Question
Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:56 pm
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The Mustang 4 solid-state modeling amp sounds awesome, IMO. It has 2X12 Celestian 80 speakers and 150 watts (2X75).

The Mustang 1, with the same "models," sounds like a cheap $99 Line 6, IMO. Very digital.

My conclusion is that "the speakers matter." I'm kind of happy that I got 2X12 Celestians for about $425 (I forget what I paid--15% off the list price). I've heard others opine that they consider their Mustang 4 worth it simply for the Deluxe Reverb model, never mind the thousands of other sounds you can get from it. They treat it like a "real amp" (meaning tube amp) and use pedals. So it's a (VERY loud, if need be) 2X12 for $425 instead of $1200.

I'm sure it does not meet John Mayer's standards for tone, but it might meet the vast majority of weekend warriors' standards. I don't know.

Oh, I should add that the Mustang 4 sounds pretty crappy through my crappy headphones too. Same models and settings, but the speakers actually producing the sound "interpret" or "implement" the direction given by the software much differently.

My conclusion is "the speakers matter."


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Post subject: Re: Tube Or Not Tube...That Is The Question
Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:40 am
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What's the learning curve on the Mustang? How is the menu layout? I'm not computer illiterate, but I've found out the more time you spend with programming stuff, the more it takes from your creativity. I generally like to keep things simple for this reason. It's less aggravating to me in the long run.

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Post subject: Re: Tube Or Not Tube...That Is The Question
Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:19 am
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CPL wrote:
What's the learning curve on the Mustang? How is the menu layout? I'm not computer illiterate, but I've found out the more time you spend with programming stuff, the more it takes from your creativity. I generally like to keep things simple for this reason. It's less aggravating to me in the long run.


It's actually not that bad. Of course, I've never hooked mine up to fuse, but you don't really need to.

The amp menu layout is pretty simple. underneath the LCD screen are five buttons, 1 each for amp, stomp, modulation, delay and reverb. Press one of the effect ones once to turn that effect off. Hit it again to turn it back on. Pressing and holding one takes you to the menu for that section. Turn the big data wheel to scroll through the options. To fiddle with one, press the data wheel to scroll through the control knobs, and turn it to adjust.

When you first turn on the amp, it defaults to preset 00, which is Liquid Solo, unless you've changed it. To change presets, simply turn the data wheel. If you turn it counter clockwise it'll take you strait to the "basic" amp models (87-99). Once you change or adjust anything, the Save button will light up- reminding you that you are no longer using a "stock" preset, and to save it, if you like the change.

To save a change or new preset, press the save button. Then scroll through the preset slots to wherever you want to put it, and hit it again.

It is a bit fiddly-that's just the result of so many options. However, once you've set up some presets the way you like ( or just find ones you like), it will "do" the plug and play thing just fine. There are quite a few pretty usable presets already on the amp, and some that are not. Just depends on your taste. The ones you hate simply become slots to place your own in!

There are also regular amp controls. These are passive until you move it. The Master volume is the regular volume knob. Volume is there to adjust the volume of the preset in relation to the other presets. You can take full advantage of this to give yourself a volume boost for a solo or loud part, or a cut for a quiet section.

Most of the amp models have a two page control panel. The first page is the usual controls. The second has the bias, sag, noise gate, and cabinet controls. That last is particularly useful- you can pair any amp with any speaker cabinet, giving you a lot of control over the sound.

These amps take pedals well, if you prefer that format- or just like the sound of a different effect better. The only caviat is OD and boost. As digital preamps, they don't respond well to big boosts in level into the main input. ( you'll run into some sort of hard limiter.) If you want to use OD in that manner, use the ones included on the amp- they're part of the model, and work in the usual fashion. If you want to use a pedal for a volume boost, run it in the fx loop.


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Post subject: Re: Tube Or Not Tube...That Is The Question
Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:07 am
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pyroman wrote:
CPL wrote:
What's the learning curve on the Mustang? How is the menu layout? I'm not computer illiterate, but I've found out the more time you spend with programming stuff, the more it takes from your creativity. I generally like to keep things simple for this reason. It's less aggravating to me in the long run.


It's actually not that bad. Of course, I've never hooked mine up to fuse, but you don't really need to.

The amp menu layout is pretty simple. underneath the LCD screen are five buttons, 1 each for amp, stomp, modulation, delay and reverb. Press one of the effect ones once to turn that effect off. Hit it again to turn it back on. Pressing and holding one takes you to the menu for that section. Turn the big data wheel to scroll through the options. To fiddle with one, press the data wheel to scroll through the control knobs, and turn it to adjust.

When you first turn on the amp, it defaults to preset 00, which is Liquid Solo, unless you've changed it. To change presets, simply turn the data wheel. If you turn it counter clockwise it'll take you strait to the "basic" amp models (87-99). Once you change or adjust anything, the Save button will light up- reminding you that you are no longer using a "stock" preset, and to save it, if you like the change.

To save a change or new preset, press the save button. Then scroll through the preset slots to wherever you want to put it, and hit it again.

It is a bit fiddly-that's just the result of so many options. However, once you've set up some presets the way you like ( or just find ones you like), it will "do" the plug and play thing just fine. There are quite a few pretty usable presets already on the amp, and some that are not. Just depends on your taste. The ones you hate simply become slots to place your own in!

There are also regular amp controls. These are passive until you move it. The Master volume is the regular volume knob. Volume is there to adjust the volume of the preset in relation to the other presets. You can take full advantage of this to give yourself a volume boost for a solo or loud part, or a cut for a quiet section.

Most of the amp models have a two page control panel. The first page is the usual controls. The second has the bias, sag, noise gate, and cabinet controls. That last is particularly useful- you can pair any amp with any speaker cabinet, giving you a lot of control over the sound.

These amps take pedals well, if you prefer that format- or just like the sound of a different effect better. The only caviat is OD and boost. As digital preamps, they don't respond well to big boosts in level into the main input. ( you'll run into some sort of hard limiter.) If you want to use OD in that manner, use the ones included on the amp- they're part of the model, and work in the usual fashion. If you want to use a pedal for a volume boost, run it in the fx loop.


I agree, because--once again--you can treat it like a "real amp" and simply adjust the gain, EQ, reverb, etc using the knobs on the amp. Don't need to ever plug into fuse on the computer, but if you do, that's easy too. It's not computer programming, for sure. I'm no computer programmer. In fact, I have not plugged mine into the computer for 15 months. I simply adjust gain and EQ and reverb as I want it on my settings. Also the 4 comes with 4-botton footswitch, which is nice. Three of them for settings, so you can have clean, crunch, and high gain as your 3 settings, for example.


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Post subject: Re: Tube Or Not Tube...That Is The Question
Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:51 am
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All those artists (or nearly all) that are listed as playing SS amps, prefer tube amps in real life.

IDK why BB chose that Lab Series, think it was more just being familiar with it. Certainly tone wise he could have done a lot better than that.

SS amps are pretty crap IMO. Ok maybe for practicing at home but even then i don't like them. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Tube Or Not Tube...That Is The Question
Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:01 am
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Don't do it unless you're going to do it properly.

I highly recommend the JCM 800, 1960AV and 1960BV speaker cabs. It's enough amp to stop you playing bass.

As for telephones and telesales people. We keep getting people from New Delhi ringing up about PPI claims, our internet is broken, we've won 97 gazzillion pounds and need to pay £3.50 to collect it.
I talk to em for a while then cover the mouthpiece whilst I tell my youngest "Hey Boo, this person on the phone wants to speak to you. Do you know who it is? It's Santa"

She then gives them a 45 minute conversation about Disney Princesses, drums, bikes, Ipads, Mario and whatever else enters her head.

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Post subject: Re: Tube Or Not Tube...That Is The Question
Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:10 am
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guitslinger wrote:
You can still pick up used Traynor, Ampeg, Harmony, Heathkit, Danelectro etc. tube amps from the 60s and 70s at a very reasonable price yet they have incredible tone.


Univox is one old brand that should be check out too.

nikininja wrote:
I highly recommend the JCM 800, 1960AV and 1960BV speaker cabs.


Yeah, that would work!

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