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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:02 pm
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It seems the terminology and definitions used are not on the same wave length. Apples and oranges. It makes for a never ending discussion. :D


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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:20 pm
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Fingers are a very important part of your sound, tone, etc--grouping that all together--everything in the signal path affects it-as well as your state of mind.

But what you do with your fingers is a big part of it, as a great player will sound better with lousy gear than a mediocre player with great gear

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:08 am
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IMO, you can have all the expensive guitars, pedals, boutique amps, etc, but if you don't know how to use them, then all you're going to produce is noise. A good guitarist can take a lower priced guitar such as a Squier and make it sound great . That is something I truly believe in. Good tone comes from the player .


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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:32 am
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Could YOU make this doctored Tele sound this big,
and is G. Moore just holding strings down on frets
and moving a pick up and down?

´Cause then we could train chimps to do it,
just hand them a fine guitar into a Marshall stack
and you would LOVE their tone and buy the record.

http://youtu.be/D4iWcFr4fTA

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:09 pm
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Location: 16 Miles North Of The Red River
Bill Kirchen, Hot Rod Lincoln live.



Listen to the solo (from 2:20 to 7:00). Go ahead. I'll wait.










Ok, are you back?

Interesting dichotomy here...Kirchen plays signature licks from a dozen plus different guitarists, and all of them are instantly identifiable.

Same guitar (Telecaster or Tele-style), no major discernible effects changes (he might kick on an overdrive or distortion at one point). I don't know what amp he was using.

A few of them sound very, very close to the original "tone" of the original artist; the movement from Stevie Ray to Freddie King to BB King to Albert King (then Ben E. to Billie Jean King :lol: ) is the biggest shift in tone(s), all within a few seconds...the Jimi imitation at the end is especially interesting.

How did he do this? Did he change guitars, amps, and effects a couple of dozen times?

No, he did it by copying their technique.

Interestingly enough, he still sounded like himself through the song, too. Had he been using a Strat, Les Paul or Flying V, I don't think there would have been much difference in "his tone"--the sound would obviously be different, but if he can imitate all those different signature tones, sounds, and songs, it is obvious that technique plays a bigger part in a player's tone than the equipment.

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:21 pm
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Here's a video that shows the same guy, same song, different version, and you actually get to see what he does...



Note the giant drum kit being used too... :lol:

A lot of noise for just three guys...I did notice more pedal changes on this one.

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:53 pm
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Here I am playing a Gibson Stereo Varitone through a Fender Bandmaster circa 1967 with the Ravens. Yes I sounded like a pro with this rig even when fumbling through a song I didn't know, but in the hands of Johnny Winter or Eric Clapton or Stevie Ray Vaughan this guitar is a deep cut above a 335. If you could find one in decent condition now the opening bid last time I saw one, about 10 years ago was 75 thousand USD. I didn't want to say this on the holy grail thread but as you can see, gold hardware, the holy grail of Gibson guitars:
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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:06 pm
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Thanks for the compliment a few posts back Blinkers.The fingers definitely have a great deal to do with the tone of the guitar.You could have a guitar and amp set at certain eq volume and have one person play a lead break on it and then pass it to someone else to do the same lead break and the resulting tones would definitely be markedly different without having to touch any of the controls on the guitar or amp.I urge anyone to try this with a friend or bandmate and the results would be the same as I said they would be.

Since my hands have become buggered up I have had to change my whole approach to playing. I don't have nearly the speed and dexterity that I had just 3 short years ago,so now I concentrate on putting more expression in every note I play since I have been relegated to using fewer notes.I have been reallly concentrating on my bends and have even been trying my hand at 2 string unison bends-which are incredibly hard to do and keep both notes in perfect harmony.

Anyway when and/or if I get full digital control back to normal,I will have a completely different style of playing even though my previous style was readily identifiable and the Hendrix,Albert King and Buddy Guy influences were quite obvious.I hope I like this new style when I get my chops back-if not I'll have to relearn my old style.

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:45 pm
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AS John Paul Jones said about John Bonham. He could play cardboard boxes and sound like Bonzo. JPJ heard Bonzo sit down at a kiddie drum set and said it sounded like...........Bonzo.

I post a link to soundcloud the other day of the Cream style version of Crossroads in another thread the other day. The guitar player had just met the amp he would be playing through that night. DO not remember the brand and a no name strat type guitar. I mean there was no identifying label on it. On that night, music sweet music dropped from his fingers. He had a hell of smoking rhythm section to inspire him. :D
http://kiwi6.com/file/e81528p05k



http://k002.kiwi6.com/hotlink/e81528p05 ... ession.mp3

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:37 am
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Sometimes tone is a cheap guitar and cheap dirt pedal away. Just last week I finished a Squier project, and yesterday I scored a Boss SD-1 for 20 bucks. That thing almost had me convinced I finally found my tone. When I asked my wife about it she was like "meh I don't get it" LOL!

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:03 am
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Lots of sheeples fall into the whole tone debate.. I would say equipment plays a very minority part.

A great microphone doesn't turn mediocre singer into a great singer. Much like playing an American fender won't instantly turn you into a slowhand, or playing through a stack won't make you sound like Page..

Sure it may help a little to have good gear, but even if your gear was that good, if you play crap then you will sound crap. Even more so if you decide to use a noteably loud amp.

Much of the tone debate we read, is the result of marketing to get us to part with more money. The acoustic sound of an electric guitar and the plugged in sound, are two completely different things- to point out the obvious. The most significant influence we have on the guitar, or the pedal, amp, microphone and PA system- are the hands that actually play the guitar. Whether it be a cheap $100 guitar or a $20,000 custom guitar. Anyone who has the talent of Clapton, with a good back line can make even the most basic electric guitar for beginners sound good. Why? Because his playing is that good.

Anyone who has argued in favour of the idea of tone woods on bolt on guitars has already fallen victim to hype. Given that Leo's choice of pine, alder and ash lumbar was for finishing/cosmetic reasons, tonewoods was not discussed at the level it is on today.

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:44 am
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As for "TONE", no it's not in the fingers.
style is in the fingers, or how you play.
as someone mentioned before, about EVH sounding the same on any setup.
what they are talking about is style, not tone.
if he played on a clean twin, it's going to sound like EVH on a clean twin.
that is where you recognize great players, not so much the sound but the style.
any Joe blow could play on the same guitar and amp, and sound nothing like the original.
but there are a few great players that also have an original tone, you put the 2 together, and you have a star.

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:39 am
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Tone comes from several different variables. One of those variables is the way you play a guitar/Your style of playing/your fingers. There are others ,though.Imo.


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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:46 am
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As a phenomenon, Music defies language, the collection of
words we call language.
On a page, tones have pitch or altitude, as well as duration.
Some other printed words hint at more subtle cues.
But it´s not much more than a model for representing
an inneffable reality.
Us guitarists we speak of tone as an aproximation to the concept
of timbre, which in my view is an attempt by science to describe
and get a handle on the singularity of a sound source.

Attack, dynamics, are more or less straight-forward terms.
Nimbleness, innuendo, are higher up subjectively.

I would have quit a long time ago, if it were not for that
very subjectivity and un-describable quality that makes
sound an Art form.

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:02 pm
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Jimmikatt wrote:
As for "TONE", no it's not in the fingers.
style is in the fingers, or how you play.
as someone mentioned before, about EVH sounding the same on any setup.
what they are talking about is style, not tone.
if he played on a clean twin, it's going to sound like EVH on a clean twin.
that is where you recognize great players, not so much the sound but the style.
any Joe blow could play on the same guitar and amp, and sound nothing like the original.
but there are a few great players that also have an original tone, you put the 2 together, and you have a star.


+1


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