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Post subject: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:55 am
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Tone is in the fingers (and amp and cables and pedals and EQ), right?

This is John Mayer. But does anyone own a Gibson ES-335? Does it just give out-of-this-world beautiful tone? Could Mayer have basically achieved this tone on the neck pickup of a Strat, with the right EQ?



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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:08 am
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IMO (electric guitar) tone is the resulting sound that comes from many factors such as pickups, amplifier, guitar type and materials, strings, nut, saddles, electronics, effects, and yes, fingers.

I don't think the sound coming out of something as complex as an electric guitar can be boiled down to 'it's all in the.....".

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:31 am
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The tone is in the hands and the technique the player uses.

Sound variations are in the gear.

If I were to be given Picasso's paints, easels, studio and models, I couldn't paint anything vaguely resembling a Picasso, even if I had all day to try. After studying his techniques, his style and his art for many years, I might be able to make a Picasso-esque painting at some point.

Likewise, when a guitarist sounds like another guitarist (for example, SRV copping Albert King), it isn't the rig or the instrument (Vaughan's and King's equipment couldn't have been more different), rather it was the technique and the style the imitator studied until he could reasonably sound like his hero.

If I were on-stage with John Mayer (with my rig) and we swapped rigs--he's playing my guitar, pedals and amp and I'm playing his--I would still have "my" tone, and he would still have John Mayer's tone.

Now, each of us would have a somewhat different "sound"--his Strat or 335 vs. my Strat or Telecaster, his amp vs. mine, etc., but he would still be John Mayer and I would still be myself. Talent levels notwithstanding, the differences between our rigs would not allow me to suddenly have his tone.

In the early days of the Screamin' Armadillos (the band), we used to play a song called "Travis County Line"...on this tune, I usually played my Telecaster (which at the time was wired/modded to Esquire specs and had no neck pickup) through a faux-Leslie effect into my '63 Reissue Viborverb.

My co-guitarist played a G&L F-100 (with a Gibson '57 humbucker pickup in the neck and some type of DiMarzio heavy metal pickup in the bridge) through a Boss distortion pedal into a Roland JC-120 amp.

Our rigs, our sounds--could not have been more different. Our tones were different, too...

Halfway through the song, the bass player would play a little solo and we would switch rigs--guitar, effects, everything.

When we started playing each other's setup, I didn't instantly have his tone, nor did he have mine. Our respective sound changed, but our personal-unique-as-a-fingerprint tone was still there. He couldn't understand how I sounded so different in his rig, and he sounded nothing like me.

The reason? Our techniques could not be more different...because his very "brainy" well-trained, proper technique was the exact opposite of my "all guts" untrained, play-it-by-ear style.

That's not saying that someone could use Kerry King's rig and end up with a sound like Robert Cray--the extremes in gear do affect the overall sound. But what we perceive as "tone" has more to do with technique and style (i.e., our hands) than the gear itself.

So to answer the question you didn't ask, go ahead and get the Gibson you're lusting after. You won't sound like Mayer, but you'll have a new "color" on your tonal pallatte.

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:42 am
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PS--Individual things--type of wood, body construction, pickups, the strings even--can change the sound of an instrument subtly or drastically...

Likewise, pedals, amps, etc. will also make differences in the sound the player gets...

But crappy guitar can sound good and a great guitar can sound bad...ultimately, it's who is playing that instrument moreso than the instrument itself.

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:47 am
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Screamin' Armadillo wrote:
The tone is in the hands and the technique the player uses.

Sound variations are in the gear.


Wikipedia disagrees:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_tone

"The types and models of pickups used can greatly affect the tone of the guitar."

"The steel strings produce a brighter tone, and according to many players, a louder sound."

"The tone of an acoustic guitar is produced by the vibration of the strings, which is amplified by the body of the guitar, which acts as a resonating chamber."

"The original purpose of the resonator was to produce a very loud sound; this purpose has been largely superseded by electrical amplification, but the resonator guitar is still played because of its distinctive tone."

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:06 am
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I would agree to a certain degree, but when the word "tone" is thrown around, it is often really referring to the individual tone a player gets.

Her Wanna/Gossamer was asking if all ES335 guitars had tone like this one...the answer is obviously, "No."
Individual guitars sound different (even in the same model), and other factors (effects, amp, etc.) affect sound and tone greatly as well.

Ultimately, a person's tone is the sum of all the little parts (equipment) and their technique ("hands", playing style). I would say it is probably 70% technique, 30% equipment.

This is based on my example of SRV and Albert King's similar sounds (with totally different rigs), or Peter Green's ability to cop BB King's tone (again, different rigs), Kim Wilson's ability to sound dead-on like Little Walter on harp (very different rigs), Kid Ramos' amazing ability to sound like Jimmie Vaughan (and Ramos was playing a Fender Esquire through a Vox amp!)...

Muddy Waters sounded like Muddy Waters whether he was playing a P-90-equipped Les Paul (like he often used in the early days) or his (more famous) red Telecaster.

Likewise, almost all of Freddie King's early records were on a P-90-equipped Les Paul, but he sounded very, very, very much like himself in his latter years, using a semi-hollow Gibson with humbuckers.

Clapton on a Les Paul or an SG or a 335 or a Strat is still Clapton.

Billy Gibbons through the hundreds of axes he's used over the years still sounds just like...Billy Gibbons.

There's probably a thousand different examples.

"Tone," as it relates to a player's style (which is what Her Wanna's question was about), is much, much more about technique than equipment.

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:12 am
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And all the post eq and racks of gear used at the desk. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:30 am
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I think the "tone is in the fingers" is based on the players ability to get the best, or more favourable tones from a guitar.

Guitslinger's pretty good at it.


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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:32 am
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A good rule to live by in terms of gear:

If you can't get a tone you like out of the amp without putting it on life support (aka: a shitton of pedals) then it isn't the right amp for you.

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:51 am
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Hmm...what would these guys say?

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:23 pm
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There is no way to get the tone of a Gibson ES
with any position on the Strat, thank God.
That´s why a Gibson ES is what it is, and likewise for the Strat.
And we all appreciate them in their uniqueness, is my guess.

And yeah I´m a firm believer that a big part of tone comes from
BOTH hands of the player.

I was at a loss trying to make a music jingle work.
We had borrowed a Les.
A bass session player who had just laid down his track,
saw me fumbling. I must have looked quite pathetic.
And I guess you know what happened next,
it was him who recorded the part. The exact same part.
No changes whatsoever on the way we had things set up,
he had no time, being on his way out.

I was left at the desk, doing A B comparissons on my takes
and his...
Paid for bass, got served with bass AND guitar, plus my butt kicked. :lol:

I like my tone better 15 years later, and I do believe its my
hands mostly. Such nuances the wonderful human hand is capable of,
just love it man. That´s the thrill isn´t it?

Let me walk in on Jeff Beck´s sound check and strap his axe on, let him
hand it to me and say, " let´s see what you got". First I would wish the
earth would swallow me, knees buckling. Eventually, I would sound feeble
and scared of the sheer voltage of the rig. I would sound my chops and
hopefully get a little into it, approaching the instrument as I know how.
I would sound like myself, give the guitar back and listen to him sound
like only he sounds. Then I could bring out my own Strat, and he would make it
sound like I never knew it was possible.

Just my two cents.

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Last edited by mike07502 on Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:25 pm
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Miami Mike wrote:
Hmm...what would these guys say?

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Well for starters, the guy on the right would say the 2 guys on the left overpaid for their guitars. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:32 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
Miami Mike wrote:
Hmm...what would these guys say?

Image


Well for starters, the guy on the right would say the 2 guys on the left overpaid for their guitars. :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: 8)

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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:16 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I can't figure out the answer of "TONE IS IN THE FINGERS?". Placement versus equalization(and harmonics). It gets you thinking.


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Post subject: Re: Tone is in the Fingers?
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:39 pm
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Quite simply, tone is in the ear of the beholder! :idea:


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