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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:59 am
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Posts: 197
I personally came to this conclusion:

Do I want a guitar made in:

a) Korea
b) China
c) Indonesia
4) India

Or do I want a guitar made in North America??? I have 2 options here for Fenders:

a) California USA?
b) Baja California? (I'm minutes from Corona and Hours from Baja)

You know what my answer is......Either one is good for me rather than an overseas build.


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Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:19 am
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Screamin' Armadillo wrote:
If it plays well, built well and it's pretty, the sound quality can often/usually be improved. Playability is always priority one (as I said in my last post).


+1 about playability. For a hobbyist such as myself I really don't need the most supreme stage tone. A nice tube amp and I'm happy. It's when the instrument keeps me from playing my best that is when I have a problem with it.


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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:29 am
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Obviously I was exaggerating a little, but can I ask y'all a serious question? My dislike of American Standards is actually directed at, or based on, specifically 2011s. I have a 2011 Am Stand Strat and a 2011 Am Stand Tele. What I don't like is the "neck tint" that, as you will recall, was one of Fender's advertising "bragging points" in 2011. Did Fender do that to cover up a bad run?

Here's my point. The 2011 necks that I've seen--including the 2 I own and the several I returned to MF before I gave up on finding one without a major defect such as a crack in the rosewood or a dent in the body--all have what I would say are "weird" and "unattractive" grain patterns. The reason I say this is they are mostly dark-brownish-blond but with very dark random grain lines in weird places that I find unattractive and even distracting. I understand that in a lot of contexts, a wood grain pattern is prized, such as on a "burst" finish on a body, but that's when the grain pattern is basically uniform throughout, whether parallel lines or some kind of "plus top" pattern. What I'm talking about are necks on the 2011s that are basically not showing much grain but with random dark lines scattered all around.

The reason I complain about this is--again--if you will recall Fender pointed to a "deepened neck tint that is more elegant" in the 2011 marketing materials. Was that BS to cover a bad run? All of my other guitars, including the '65 reissue mustang and the chinese-made Modern Player tele, have beautiful blond necks that are uniform with very little grain showing, and I prefer that look to the 2011 "deep neck tint" that I would call "random weird dark lines" neck color.

Have American Standards always had a neck that shows more grain lines?


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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:34 am
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Blertles wrote:
mike07502 wrote:
So then, the HEARTFIELD years, how long did that last before the independent contracting occurred?


Heartfield was entirely contracted work. The Brand was infact set up by Fujigen as a R&D team that was used to come up with new concepts and designs but due to the type of work they were doing, there wasn't pressure to generate sales. Its sole aim was to unrestrict them from the work that was given by OEM customers. I can't find out when this team was set up, but the Heartfield line was in production from 89-93. They have been branded "Heartfield" "Heartfield by Fender" and "Fender", made in Fujigen Matsumoto and Hirooka factories. The aim was to set up a Mid to high tier priced line of 'Styled' guitars that competed in a market that Fender had no hold of, which were dominated by Ibanez and Jackson. This market represented about 30% of the new guitar market in the USA -at least. Also, sales of the high end models that Fender Japan produced were fast dwindling because of the weakened US dollar vs the Yen. This line proved to be unsuccessful due to Fender consumers wanting the usual traditional product.

...


Heartfield was a cooperative & collaborative partnership project. FMIC did not just contract everything out, picking up the phone in Scottsdale and blindly order 5000 guitars. The Heartfield project was started up by Fujigen but long before any Heartfield instruments actually were produced for public sale, Fender partnered up with them bringing considerable knowledge and resources to the project.

FMIC assembled a Design Team for Heartfield in the USA. The far smaller R&D section and accomplished manufacturing workers at Fujigen were augmented by a full team of western guitar design, marketing and crafting gurus collected specifically for the Heartfield line. FMIC also setup first class marketing people to front the line internationally. Fugigen was great at making instruments. Fender great at design and marketing. It seemed a good combo.

The Heartfield Design Team people included Fender designers of the day George Blanda (also head of Fender R&D), Jay Black, Larry Brooks, Bruce Bolen, John Page, plus Yasahiko Iwanade (Japanese native working in the Fender Corona Custom Shop for at least 2 years prior to the Heartfield Team) and many others from Fender. Additionally FMIC hired some noteworthy people away from Gibson, Sadowsky and Yamaha especially for Heartfield. In contrast, the lone Fujigen member of the design team was Nick Sugimoto.


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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:04 am
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the thing with the aesthetics of a guitar, and the wider variety coming from japan.

while choosing a crap guitar because the colour is nice is a bit dumb, a good guitar in a colour I don't like is also not something id buy. none of the US std colours interest me, so I don't want one, however good theyre supposed to be. especially as, like I mentioned before, a MIJ guitar is a lot cheaper than a US std here in the UK. you could buy a brand new MIJ, change the pickups, and have a guitar with US std pups, but in some rare/weird finish that only japan offers, and still probably come in cheaper/about the same as a US std.

even the current MIM fender logo, the big black blocky thing, is enough to put me off. id rather find an older one with more visually appealing (to me) logo. I think the current one looks cheap, reminds me of a squire affinity.


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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:05 am
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Location: Albemarle, NC
Blertles wrote:
Brotherdave, I'm interested to hear why you say the electronics are the weak point- with what line of guitars are you referring to? In the past five years at least- customshop, Seymour Duncan, Dimarzio and Lace Sensor pickups have been used as OEM, TBX and active Claptonesque boost circuits have been the norm.. This depends on the line however. If you are talking about the current Standard series, Squier or 90's versions of reissues then I have to agree. But for anything new or recent- like most people here, I can't say I can comment because I haven't had the privelege to buy one new from Japan recently to prove that theory. I can only go by what Tokais are producing, which is a very credible all round product.

I think user Herwanna made a gross exaggeration with the Mustang. But we get the point that was made.

Where the quality is seen is at the low price points they offer, vs what is being made at Ensenada. I'm beginning to think that the Japan level of quality is par with any line from the Americas, however given the fact that you can't buy a MIJ Fender new just adds to the mystique about them. It drives prices up on used mij guitars that shouldn't fall into that category. It throws fuel into the fire of the age old argument- 'MIJ guitars are better'. Which in turn, people rave about what few guitars there are in the west- most of which date from the 80's and 90's (the ones with sub-par electronics) . The irony of it all is that punters and fanboys pay silly money for them as a result.


My recent experience is with Fender Japan basses which are available in the USA. I've owned 3 in the past 10 years. Most recently buying one 3 years ago. All three got electronic overhauls. All 3 had cheap poly chicklet caps and mini-pots with push on knobs.

Ever since they came out I wanted a Fender Duck Dunn signature, but all of them I played were anemic tone-wise. I'm not buying a limited edition bass to mod it so I gave up on ever getting one and stopped trying them out when I saw one.

I agree about the "mystique" thing. There are good ones and bad ones off every production line and Fender Japan is not immune to rolling out a real stinkaroo. Neither is Corona or Ensenada or Beijing. (Yes FMIC is opening a real office with Fender people in Beijing! Wonder who's naughty list you had to get onto for the Beijing assignment?) So you have to PLAY a bunch and then decide. Country of origin is no guarantee of ANYTHING but that it came from there.

Given top quality components even China can make great Fenders. The ones they are turning out now with the typical Asian parts are not just pretty darned good but downright amazing. They are making chicken salad out of chicken manure, so one has to wonder how good they'd be with Schaller hardware and decent tonewoods.

Eventually we could be talking about Chinese versus USA and MIM quality after Japan prices themselves out of the picture completely.


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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:51 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:08 pm
Posts: 474
Screamin' Armadillo wrote:
brotherdave wrote:
Nope, directed at anyone buying an instrument based on color alone. Frequent complaint about Japanese Fender offerings and beyond that instruments in general. Black is my least favorite color, but bought a black instrument that played great and sounded better than the others just like it. To me color really is a third priority. Sound, playability then color.

My priorities are similar, but Playability is always first and Sound second...it doesn't matter how good it sounds, if it doesn't "play well," it won't stay in my herd very long...sound can also be adjusted by pickup swaps, tweaks in the electronics, etc.

Style/design and color are three and four on the priority list.

Shoot, I own/play/love one of the oddest basses of all time--not just odd because of the design, but because of what the previous owner did to it...

Image

Image

Kids, this is your brain on drugs! :shock:

In spite of it's (ahem) unique look, I love it--it plays great, sounds great, and is well-balanced.


Wow..a Big Stud..with a bunch of big studs.


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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:59 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:08 pm
Posts: 474
brotherdave wrote:
Blertles wrote:
Brotherdave, I'm interested to hear why you say the electronics are the weak point- with what line of guitars are you referring to? In the past five years at least- customshop, Seymour Duncan, Dimarzio and Lace Sensor pickups have been used as OEM, TBX and active Claptonesque boost circuits have been the norm.. This depends on the line however. If you are talking about the current Standard series, Squier or 90's versions of reissues then I have to agree. But for anything new or recent- like most people here, I can't say I can comment because I haven't had the privelege to buy one new from Japan recently to prove that theory. I can only go by what Tokais are producing, which is a very credible all round product.

I think user Herwanna made a gross exaggeration with the Mustang. But we get the point that was made.

Where the quality is seen is at the low price points they offer, vs what is being made at Ensenada. I'm beginning to think that the Japan level of quality is par with any line from the Americas, however given the fact that you can't buy a MIJ Fender new just adds to the mystique about them. It drives prices up on used mij guitars that shouldn't fall into that category. It throws fuel into the fire of the age old argument- 'MIJ guitars are better'. Which in turn, people rave about what few guitars there are in the west- most of which date from the 80's and 90's (the ones with sub-par electronics) . The irony of it all is that punters and fanboys pay silly money for them as a result.


My recent experience is with Fender Japan basses which are available in the USA. I've owned 3 in the past 10 years. Most recently buying one 3 years ago. All three got electronic overhauls. All 3 had cheap poly chicklet caps and mini-pots with push on knobs.

Ever since they came out I wanted a Fender Duck Dunn signature, but all of them I played were anemic tone-wise. I'm not buying a limited edition bass to mod it so I gave up on ever getting one and stopped trying them out when I saw one.

I agree about the "mystique" thing. There are good ones and bad ones off every production line and Fender Japan is not immune to rolling out a real stinkaroo. Neither is Corona or Ensenada or Beijing. (Yes FMIC is opening a real office with Fender people in Beijing! Wonder who's naughty list you had to get onto for the Beijing assignment?) So you have to PLAY a bunch and then decide. Country of origin is no guarantee of ANYTHING but that it came from there.

Given top quality components even China can make great Fenders. The ones they are turning out now with the typical Asian parts are not just pretty darned good but downright amazing. They are making chicken salad out of chicken manure, so one has to wonder how good they'd be with Schaller hardware and decent tonewoods.

Eventually we could be talking about Chinese versus USA and MIM quality after Japan prices themselves out of the picture completely.



That's what I'm waiting for..and it's good to hear China is more than a contract. The Classic Vibe Squier stuff isn't made with the best materials(in comparison to the U.S., Japan..and Mexico)...but the assembly, fit..and finish on these guitars is sometimes better than any other country of origin. Plus...they look SO Fender. Love the colors. If there ever is a day when they start using U.S. stuff...I'll be buying one.


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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:00 am
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Toronado wrote:
What's your budget, first of all?

$700 below,i dont want squier,i juz wan fender...=]


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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:17 am
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Ryan41018 wrote:
Or do I want a guitar made in North America??? I have 2 options here for Fenders:

a) California USA?
b) Baja California? (I'm minutes from Corona and Hours from Baja)

You know what my answer is......Either one is good for me rather than an overseas build.


If like many others, you're not in N America, they're all overseas built. But one costs substantially more than the rest. The Mex built is arguably as good, but still half the price.


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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:24 am
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Given the gigantic market that has opened in China now that people are accumulating wealth there, Fenders opening of an offshore plant in China was a very smart move in a world of 'contract manufacturing' in the east

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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:21 am
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I've had a few strats over the past couple of years but this Fender Japan ST54-110 DMC is quickly becoming my #1. The only mode I've made is a bridge pickup from Vineham Custom Wound Pickups and a cap to give it a darker, ballsier tone.

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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:42 am
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That's a really nice one Blinkers. I see you're located in the maritimes; were you able to order it direct from Japan?? I'm in Winnipeg and how I can purchase MIJ guitars short of FSR's offered at L&M still eludes me.

Here is the FSR MIJ '52 that I just got recently. Fantastic playing guitar. I plan on giving it Texas Specials and a 4-way tele switch:
Image


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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:22 am
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Nice Tele! I have a few contacts between here and Japan that collect/trade and sell MIJ guitars of all types. I got this one from Yahoo Japan through a service that did the bidding for me.


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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:31 pm
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Toronado wrote:
That's a really nice one Blinkers. I see you're located in the maritimes; were you able to order it direct from Japan?? I'm in Winnipeg and how I can purchase MIJ guitars short of FSR's offered at L&M still eludes me.

Here is the FSR MIJ '52 that I just got recently. Fantastic playing guitar. I plan on giving it Texas Specials and a 4-way tele switch:
Image


Tornado, you can't buy a new MIJ instrument however you can buy them used. Second hand Japanese guitars are a plenty & easy to order. I ordered a guitar from Ishibashi in Japan and found the whole experience hassle & stress free. Considering I'm a noob when it comes to purchasing anything from Internet, that says a lot.

Click on the below link and look on the right hand side for a row of manufacturing options for the secondhand gear:

http://www.ishibashi.co.jp/eng/

I can certainly vouch that even used Japanese instruments are of a high standard.

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