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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:48 am
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My Japan-made '65 reissue mustang has build quality about 400 to 500 times better than my American Standard Strat and Tele. It's a joke how poorly the lazy American work product compares. Through trial and error I have concluded that American standards are allowed to have one major defect -- such as a crack on rosewood bad enough to give one a splinter -- and still pass inspection. From mobile excuse typos.


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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:28 am
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Her Wanna wrote:
My Japan-made '65 reissue mustang has build quality about 400 to 500 times better than my American Standard Strat and Tele. It's a joke how poorly the lazy American work product compares. Through trial and error I have concluded that American standards are allowed to have one major defect -- such as a crack on rosewood bad enough to give one a splinter -- and still pass inspection. From mobile excuse typos.

400 to 500 times.
Wow!
They sure must be awesome, then!
Super duper awesome, full of greatness and glory.
I bet even God couldn't make them that good.

:wink:

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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:36 am
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
BMW-KTM wrote:
Super duper awesome, full of greatness and glory.
I bet even God couldn't make them that good.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:39 am
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...actually 435.2 times better as per the Blavatskian scale of greatness man. :D

But one thing I think we can draw from the discussion,
Japanese Fenders are indeed of excellent craft.
And that makes sense to me.
My sister travelled to Japan.
Her description of japanese society fits what I hear elsewhere,
incredible work ethic and attention to detail.

In my opinion the Japanese people highly esteem American culture,
and they excell at attempting to make everything better than anyone.

There´s this Brian Setzer Orchestra dvd, live in Japan.
I was amazed to see how much into it the fans get.

Same for Keith Jarrett, he´s played in Japan more than anywhere else,
and we´re talking Kieth Jarrett...

I think the Japanese know where it´s at, man.
A higher standard of living and education, like it or not.

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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:25 am
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nikininja wrote:
Dalembic wrote:
Out of all the origins mentioned, I do think the MIJ stuff is finished with the least attractive of sprays. (But)...They get their alder a little later due to being far away...so you never see obvious glue joint indentions in the finishes. They're above all with that. They also are cut and routed more precise than the rest.

I think the California plant has all aspects covered..and are the best all around.


Think about this mate. Do you think Fender waste money buying alder, get it shipped to Corona then disperse it to another plant for them to take their pick. Then send the remainder on to somewhere else?
Wouldn't it make more sense to just send the lumber to the individual plants from the lumber yard.

Who knows, the Japanese plant may actually be capable of buying their own raw material?

I think there is far too much supposition about the Japan plant and Fenders business practices. I can promise you this, FMIC share holders do not care where the guitars come from if they are making a profit.


But still..doesn't the Japan plant use American alder wood(which is a big plus imo)? It may or may not come from another vendor. My point is the wood sits around a bit longer before being shipped from the U.S., and the wood has more time to mature.


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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:16 pm
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Dalembic wrote:
nikininja wrote:
Dalembic wrote:
Out of all the origins mentioned, I do think the MIJ stuff is finished with the least attractive of sprays. (But)...They get their alder a little later due to being far away...so you never see obvious glue joint indentions in the finishes. They're above all with that. They also are cut and routed more precise than the rest.

I think the California plant has all aspects covered..and are the best all around.


Think about this mate. Do you think Fender waste money buying alder, get it shipped to Corona then disperse it to another plant for them to take their pick. Then send the remainder on to somewhere else?
Wouldn't it make more sense to just send the lumber to the individual plants from the lumber yard.

Who knows, the Japanese plant may actually be capable of buying their own raw material?

I think there is far too much supposition about the Japan plant and Fenders business practices. I can promise you this, FMIC share holders do not care where the guitars come from if they are making a profit.


But still..doesn't the Japan plant use American alder wood(which is a big plus imo)? It may or may not come from another vendor. My point is the wood sits around a bit longer before being shipped from the U.S., and the wood has more time to mature.


Given the scale of Japan operations, I can assure you that Fender is just one of the many contracts they have and there is no "fender" plant per se. In fact I know that my Fender Talon was manufactured in the same factory as Ibanez and Jackson. Tokais, Greco, Fujigen "FGN" Guitars, Orville by Gibson, Epiphone, Edwards, Gretcsh, Charvel, Jackson, Ibanez and Yamaha etc... I could go on, all these were made by Fujigen. This would mean that the wood is sourced independently from Fender.

But all things aside, the notion Japan are making guitars that are exceeding quality is true. However does this mean that they are better than what is coming from Mexico? Or America? That may have been true in the 80's- when this coupled with the mystique because one does not simply purchase a new Fender Japan guitar. I can tell you the classic player 60's Strat and the nitro finished classic series Strat from Mexico are on the same par as the the normal 'Japan Reissue' instruments.

The thing that Fender Mexico and USA cannot and prefer not to compete with, is price. This is why exports unless approved, arent sold elsewhere. They simply cannot match the quality and the colour/model/pickup combinations that Japan offers. Neither can the U.S plant for that matter. They would much rather you not have that option without paying a premium for it. So that begs the question- why would Fender even have Japan made guitars and not sell them outside Japan, and what's the point of it? I'm guessing this is because Japan is a very domestic market- one of the few countries that are self-sufficient. If fender bailed out, Fugigen would still be making these guitars, only they would have "Tokias" on the headstocks. It's merely to fill a gap in the market so this doesn't happen again, coupled with the fact people of Japan generally don't like buying Chinese products.

Take this guitar for example, the price converted is about $1100 in my country. It's a '62 reissue Strat in Ocean Turqoise Marine with Texas Special pickups as standard issue. For me to buy a MiM classic player 60's Strat in my country you are looking at spending $1700.
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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:53 pm
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Fender Japan do not use American wood. Why would they pay to ship it all that way when the stuff (Alnus trabeculosa) grows on their doorstep???

Thanks for the background on the market in the far east Blertes

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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:00 pm
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nikininja wrote:
Fender Japan do not use American wood. Why would they pay to ship it all that way when the stuff (Alnus trabeculosa) grows on their doorstep???

Thanks for the background on the market in the far east Blertes



Gah! I meant they don't get it from Fender.. Instead They source independantly. I've only just had my weetbix and I'm still waking up from the dead.. The sun is too bright outside still. Time for a cuppa and put me threads on before the neighbours complain :| sorry mate.

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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:06 pm
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nikininja wrote:
Fender Japan do not use American wood. Why would they pay to ship it all that way when the stuff (Alnus trabeculosa) grows on their doorstep???

Thanks for the background on the market in the far east Blertes

Little of the wood used, Ash, Alder, poplar etc grows in Japan. They have often used Basswood as a replacement. Most species come from N America and Canada. Probably makes sense that FJ source it from Fender US, or at least get them to use the same supplier.

As for the idea it has more time to mature by travelling further, and the implication it makes any discernible difference to the final product, is one that could only be suggested on a guitar forum.


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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:12 pm
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Japan has plenty of alder

http://www.pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?Lat ... s+japonica

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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:15 pm
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And before the tonewood debate starts, I've heard it directly from a builder that spent plenty of time with Leo that the only reason Fender use alder is that it can be stained to look like cherry wood furniture that was apparently popular on the American market in the 50's.

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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:17 pm
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In 2000 I bought a no frills Mexican Strat for less than $300 and it's an incredible guitar that I have nothing to do with it but change the strings.It sounds absolutely incredible,although some people adhere to the old urban myth that Mexican Strats must have the pickups swapped out.My nephew used a 1995 MIM Strat constantly gigging for 15 years and just replaced it about a year ago with another MIM Strat.The old one sounded so good that other guitarists were constantly coming up to him and asking what pups he used to get such a huge sound they were always surprised when he said that it was a stock Mexican Strat.

No matter whether you buy a MIJ,MIM or MIA Strat you can feel confident that no matter what you have an exceptional instrument because the days of inconsistant quality control are long long gone.

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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:30 pm
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nikininja wrote:
Fender Japan do not use American wood. Why would they pay to ship it all that way when the stuff (Alnus trabeculosa) grows on their doorstep???

Thanks for the background on the market in the far east Blertes



This does make me wonder, since they already use another form of ash called sen.


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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:22 am
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Her Wanna wrote:
My Japan-made '65 reissue mustang has build quality about 400 to 500 times better than my American Standard Strat and Tele. It's a joke how poorly the lazy American work product compares. Through trial and error I have concluded that American standards are allowed to have one major defect -- such as a crack on rosewood bad enough to give one a splinter -- and still pass inspection. From mobile excuse typos.


I'm not with you on that figure. I also disagree about the one major defect statement. I repeat that Fender Japan sells well finished tight instruments, but the Japanese electronics are sub-standard to any other Fender. Fender USA instruments of current production have strong points too, including better and more stable neck construction and better electronics than Fender Japan or anywhere else in Asia. Even Fender's MIM electronics are better than the Fender Japan ones. Fender Japan contractors often use laminated/veneered body blanks.

At least four different plants in Japan that I know of have made instruments for Fender Japan. Fujigen, Dyna & Tokai being the big three producing the most instruments for Fender Japan. These are all HUGE manufacturing companies and they make dozens of brands, not just Fender for Fender Japan. They are contractors and not otherwise connected to Fender Japan. Fender Japan contracted out some acoustic production decades ago to Terada making them the fourth plant I know of to make Fender branded instruments. Fender Japan does NOT have their own plant. There is no manufacturing plant in Japan with a sign out front saying "FENDER" on it.

Fender Japan is a business partnership of Yamano Gakki and Kanda Shokai. Yamano is a musical instrument wholesaler/retailer with their own retail outlets throughout Japan and Kanda Shokai are a musical instrument wholesaler and exporter with no retail outlets. The two companies collectively formed Fender Japan in a licensing agreement with FMIC when FMIC was initially formed to buy out Fender from CBS. Fender Japan supplied FMIC with instruments and amps in the brief period when there was no USA production and this was way before there was a Fender Mexico plant. Fender Japan is a licensee of the Fender brand who can sell any Fender they want to sell in Japan. They have certain Asian territory. Also Fender Japan operates their own Custom Shop.

Each of the plants Fender Japan has contracted sources their own parts. They are not getting parts from FMIC including wood. There are occasionally some historical exceptions to this for PICKUPS and when this happened it was listed on the specs. This was primarily during the period when there was no USA production of Fenders.

I've owned many MIA, MIM and Japanese Fenders. They all have their points. I strongly disagree that Japanese ones are hundreds of times better. I also think that each instrument has to be judged individually and not collectively based on origin. But for sure the Fender Japan electronics are usually the Japanese instrument's weak point. Also often the Fender Japan hardware is more on par with Fender's MIM stuff than USA.

Fender Japan and FMIC are two completely different companies. FMIC does not own Fender Japan, but licenses designs and logos to the Fender Japan partnership.

FMIC went into Japan in the late 1980's to setup their own operation to make high quality instruments with cutting edge designs, advanced electronics and top quality hardware and woods. They wound up costing almost as much as a USA Standard so everyone bought the USA Standard. This FMIC owned and directed brand was called HEARTFIELD. Heartfield guitars and basses were some of the best guitars ever made in Japan, but few were willing to pay the steep price for these "best of everything" Japanese made instruments.

I currently have one Fender Japan instrument. It is "OK" but I would not say it is better than my USA or Mexican Fenders. Different, but not better. After I replaced the pickup and tone cap it is usable. I wound up spending more on it than for a USA Standard in the long run.

Color is just one consideration. Buying an instrument based on color alone is probably the most stupid thing otherwise smart people do.

I think you can get a great instrument from USA, Japan or Mexico with a Fender decal on the headstock. I can prove it.


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Post subject: Re: Fender made in US,Mexico and Japan...
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:35 am
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brotherdave wrote:
Buying an instrument based on color alone is probably the most stupid thing otherwise smart people do.
Since this sentence seems to be directed at me, I'm going to point out that the black version of those MIJ Jags is available over here. Having done some research on them on the internet, their owners seem quite satisfied with them. I'm not THAT stupid.

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