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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:45 am
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That's an interesting take Arjay, but it doesn't seem to be in disagreement with what I wrote and the point I made.

Some points that make me circumspect is the idea of Clinton 'forcing' loans on minorities for political points. Many more than that got caught up in it. The blame has been pointed at many; lenders, regulators, housing commissions, and not least, borrowers. It takes two to tango. Either way, my point about deregulating, and letting market forces do everything else, is still relevant.


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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:24 am
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Drubbing wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
Moreover, and believe me. I will never defend any politician of any kind. The Patriot Act was authored by Joe Biden. BEFORE the Oklahoma City Bombing. I cannot stress this enough. Government. Any and all of it. Is wrong at a basic human rights level. This government is simply full of people who are playing the public like a fiddle. Giving you two different kinds of slavery to choose from and making sure they are your only choice. The last wall is dropping.


It's clear you believe all forms of govt are immoral, corrupt or corruptible, lack any desire for true public service, and just serve their own ends. In Autocracies, that's a given.

These things are all true to varying degrees in different democratic countries, different parties and the people within them, but to label them all the same, based on your philosophical approach, is as naive and simplistic as your alternative.



No. Actually it's not if you understand human rights and where they come from. Human rights are held by the individual. Democracy is just as much tyranny as a Monarchy. Just because you are a majority gives you no right to trample the rights of any individual. If you support democracy then you must also believe that gang rape is willing sex because the majority of participants want it. Just because 12 people live on a road and want it paved and I do not. It does not give them the right to steal my property to build it. If you support democracy you simply support the tyranny of the many over the few.

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:57 am
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King of Pain.

You are ignoring the many checks and balances that exist in a democracy to ensure that it is not mob rule. Not the least of which, in the US, are the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, developed to avoid exactly what you have described.

Your description of Democracy is over-simplified. It does not exist.


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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:06 am
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44james wrote:
You are ignoring the many checks and balances that exist in a democracy to ensure that it is not mob rule. Not the least of which, in the US, are the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, developed to avoid exactly what you have described.


A non sequitur at this point since the United States government has now thrown both of these charter documents under the bus.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:17 am
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http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57588 ... -nsa-leak/

How does a guy like this get access???

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:17 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
No. Actually it's not if you understand human rights and where they come from. Human rights are held by the individual. Democracy is just as much tyranny as a Monarchy. Just because you are a majority gives you no right to trample the rights of any individual. If you support democracy then you must also believe that gang rape is willing sex because the majority of participants want it. Just because 12 people live on a road and want it paved and I do not. It does not give them the right to steal my property to build it. If you support democracy you simply support the tyranny of the many over the few.
Any responsible democracy protects the rights of minorities. The idea that belief in electing public officials means you believe gang rape or any other form of gang violence is acceptable is illogical. If you lived in an anarchistic society and your 12 neighbors wanted your road paved and you didn't, they would be free to murder you just so they could get the road paved - not a world I care to live in.

Yes, I edited the last sentence. I realized it was probably way too inflammatory.

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:07 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
No. Actually it's not if you understand human rights and where they come from. Human rights are held by the individual. Democracy is just as much tyranny as a Monarchy. Just because you are a majority gives you no right to trample the rights of any individual. If you support democracy then you must also believe that [edited] is willing sex because the majority of participants want it. Just because 12 people live on a road and want it paved and I do not. It does not give them the right to steal my property to build it. If you support democracy you simply support the tyranny of the many over the few.

No form of government is fair to everyone all the time. Democracy (and democratic republics) are a little better, because some protection is afforded to those who fight for it (sometimes at high costs, such as civil rights). But democratic republics (such as the US) are only as good as the people who are elected or appointed.

You touted anarchy, didn't you?
Anarchy (boiled down to elementary terms) means that any person can do what ever they want--which would almost immediately infringe upon the desires of their other fellow anarchists, which, by the definition of anarchy, should be illegal. :D

But wait--that can't be right, because there's nothing illegal, because it's an anarchy, right?

Anarchy would only work if everyone were a perfectly moral and upright person...and there's no human in existence that fits that bill after the year 33 CE.

Case in point:
In an anarchist society, I could build a toll booth along a major thoroughfare and charge whatever price I want for you to pass it.
You might say, "You can't do that, you don't own the road!"
To which I reply, "Who are going to get to stop me? We have anarchy, remember? There's no governing force to make sure I don't do this...by the way, your toll just doubled because you complained."
Your only recourse would be (1) to pay or (2) to fight me.

Obviously, it's a ridiculous notion or idea that anarchy would ever work. Anarchy leads to dictatorship, because the guy with the biggest gun(s) would eventually force his will upon others.

BTW, The sexual assault reference (that I edited out) is a bit inappropriate for this site, isn't it?

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:15 am
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So last night I played my 2011 Amer Standard Strat and my 2012 Modern Player Tele. I fixed the Tele's static problem this weekend using copper foil.

I just can't decide whether I like 9s or 10s better.


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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:22 am
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Her Wanna wrote:
So last night I played my 2011 Amer Standard Strat and my 2012 Modern Player Tele. I fixed the Tele's static problem this weekend using copper foil.

I just can't decide whether I like 9s or 10s better.

I like 9's. I also like the new satin finish on the new standard strats and teles.


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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:01 pm
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Bush will go down as one of the greatest leaders in world history, the US current "leader" will go down as what he is one of the most purely evil men to ever lead a country.


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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:03 pm
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BigdaddyRN wrote:
Bush will go down as one of the greatest leaders in world history, the US current "leader" will go down as what he is one of the most purely evil men to ever lead a country.


Really ? Really ? Really ? While I don't approve of Obama allowing the NSA to allow our phone calls and emails being monitored, etc, he is definitely the lesser of 2 evils compared to the Bush administration as far as I'm concerned sunshine.


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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:57 pm
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From where I am I can only see that Obama is trying to do good. Lets face it, an old healthcare system that denied those who couldn't afford it needed to be changed to a more modern approach- that previous system was not working for its people and not a true representation of giving those a basic right. Gun laws are pain in Obamas side and from the outside looking in, it's frustrating to see they won't be changed. I only say this because my heart sinks when I see mass shootings on tv.

Talking about an anarchy and avoiding such, giving people easy access to a firearm is just an ingredient for Destruction. I'm not saying that there is one, but add a reason to incite a riot or someone who is that mentally stable or self destructive who has acces to a gun, then whamo! Its an explosive powderkeg waiting to blow, and it does. Next thing it's on the 6 O'clock news of shootings & rampages. I just don't get the mindset of needing a gun as a right, to protect oneself from a neighbour across the street who has one also. Like those old Spy vs. Spy comics i read as a kid. Take all them guns away, and you won't need to protect yourself from others that have them and poor innocent children and citizens won't need to suffer- also cops probably wont need to take the '10 on 1 approach' when dealing with a hood rat with a stolen car.. yet that's not enough to sway congress opinion.

Talking about the NSA leaks, I'm surprised many didn't know about this already. I'm guessing it was all but a conspiracy theory up until someone confirmed what was going on. But in truth, perhaps it could be illegal to spy on ones own citizens- but not from another country, thats the loophole that a good portion of world governments and national secuirity depts work. If the technology to use it on world terrorists and the like, it's going to be used by governments and its services to ratt out any unwanteds in homelands.. It happened in NZ here to Kim Dotcom, and thats exactly what's been going on since the 70's.

This comment is going to go down like mentos in a coke bottle.. Please be gentle :cry:

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:41 pm
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Meh Social Darwinism FTW

In fact forget the social part of that. The two words are mutually exclusive. Nothing social about survival of the fittest.

And just to add a bit to the online rhetoric
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Do you still have your privacy?

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:58 pm
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True- In this day of age, privacy doesn't really exist anymore. In the age of social networking and media, all comments we make, photos we upload etc.. its all on record. Everywhere we go- even to the servo to fill the car, supermarket there is CCTV footage thats going on file. Private phone conversations- text messages etc... unless there is a reason for phone calls but I know from my experience working at the largest NZ telco company that ALL text messages are recorded and documented. The very platform which organisations like the NSA use for spying for example, are on most telco companies infastructure around the world.

All in all, I only get my privacy sitting on the dunny.

nikininja wrote:
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Done :)

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:40 pm
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So we have a 29 year old high school dropout living in the paradise of Hawaii. Has a job paying $122,000 a year and his girlfriend is a pole dancer. Gave this up to spend his life in prison or on the run and nothing will change. Maybe he should have not dropped out.


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