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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:17 am
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Went to Taco Burrito King early this morning after seeing the metal cover band Throttle at Bobby McGees in Chicago Ridge. I ordered a large guacamole ( a huge bowl of chunky avocados, finely chopped onions and some other unidentifiable leafy green stuff :lol: ) and a large cilantro on the side of that. 2 boats of hot out of the oven corn chips later, I was satisfied. No mixing, just eating :lol: .

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:01 pm
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chrisconsin wrote:
Anyone interested in my million person march for the objectification of cilantro?
Let's roll. 8) And while we're at it, let's make one of those videos that goes from person-to-person all over the world playing the same song to support the cause.

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:02 pm
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Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
Went to Taco Burrito King early this morning after seeing the metal cover band Throttle at Bobby McGees in Chicago Ridge. I ordered a large guacamole ( a huge bowl of chunky avocados, finely chopped onions and some other unidentifiable leafy green stuff :lol: ) and a large cilantro on the side of that. 2 boats of hot out of the oven corn chips later, I was satisfied. No mixing, just eating :lol: .


If I had eaten all that last night I would probably be paying for it all day today. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:16 pm
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spacewolf wrote:
chrisconsin wrote:
Anyone interested in my million person march for the objectification of cilantro?
Let's roll. 8) And while we're at it, let's make one of those videos that goes from person-to-person all over the world playing the same song to support the cause.


I'm in. Let's get Sarah Mclachlan to do the song. We'll make it like an ASPCA commercial.

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:50 pm
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SNick wrote:
Check your history - it was XPres Bush who signed it into law just after 9/11. Your a little late to the party.


Uh... your reply has just a hint of Liberal bent to it.

Don't blame Bush, the intial; Bill passed the Senate 98-1 with 1 absence. All but one Democratic Senator voted Yea + 1 who was absent for the vote.

In 2006, the Patriot Act Reauthorizing Act also passed 89-10 with one abstention -Patriot Act Rollcall Vote

This means that there were sufficient votes to override any Presidential Veto. Add to this that had Bush not signed it, he would have been accused of not respecting the Will of the People (as expressed through their elected representatives).

In 2011, the House & Senate voted to extend three key provisions of the Patriot Act scheduled to expire, sending the measure to obama to be signed into law. obama, attending the G8 summit in France at the time, directed the use of an autopen - a signature reproduction device - to sign the measure once Congress approved it. The House voted 250-153 in favor of the 4-year extention while the Seante voted 72-23 in favor (again more than the 66 votes required to override a White House Veto).

My only issue with the Patriot Act when it was passed was that it did not contain sufficient 'Sundown' provisions. I agreed that at the time, this was needed to combat terrorism. But, I also envision a time when it is no longer required in it's entirety which is where allowing certain parts of the bill to expire would have been useful.

It's all too easy to go on Bush-bashing, but there were elections between the initial Bill in 2001, the extended Bill in 2006 and the latest extention in 2011.

If you're against this legislation, did you vote to re-elect your Senators and Congressmen in these past elections? If so, you're much more to blame than Bush ever was!

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:36 am
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I don't mind if a small amount of cilantro is cooked into something--I love menudo and several other dishes that have cilantro added while its cooking, but...

Raw cilantro tastes like dusty, herby grass with a bit of spiciness added.

Never liked it.

I am not ashamed...

So have your march and get Sarah Mac to sing a song for you:
"Give me the dusty herb/It tastes like a spicy fern/His 'tween-aged child leaves it out/For the sake of the Armadillo" (sung to the tune of "I Will Remember You")...I won't hold it against you, I'll just go buy another bag of chips.

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:24 am
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Lightnin MN wrote:
SNick wrote:
Check your history - it was XPres Bush who signed it into law just after 9/11. Your a little late to the party.


Uh... your reply has just a hint of Liberal bent to it.

Don't blame Bush, the intial; Bill passed the Senate 98-1 with 1 absence. All but one Democratic Senator voted Yea + 1 who was absent for the vote.

In 2006, the Patriot Act Reauthorizing Act also passed 89-10 with one abstention -Patriot Act Rollcall Vote

This means that there were sufficient votes to override any Presidential Veto. Add to this that had Bush not signed it, he would have been accused of not respecting the Will of the People (as expressed through their elected representatives).

In 2011, the House & Senate voted to extend three key provisions of the Patriot Act scheduled to expire, sending the measure to obama to be signed into law. obama, attending the G8 summit in France at the time, directed the use of an autopen - a signature reproduction device - to sign the measure once Congress approved it. The House voted 250-153 in favor of the 4-year extention while the Seante voted 72-23 in favor (again more than the 66 votes required to override a White House Veto).

My only issue with the Patriot Act when it was passed was that it did not contain sufficient 'Sundown' provisions. I agreed that at the time, this was needed to combat terrorism. But, I also envision a time when it is no longer required in it's entirety which is where allowing certain parts of the bill to expire would have been useful.

It's all too easy to go on Bush-bashing, but there were elections between the initial Bill in 2001, the extended Bill in 2006 and the latest extention in 2011.

If you're against this legislation, did you vote to re-elect your Senators and Congressmen in these past elections? If so, you're much more to blame than Bush ever was!

cheers!



Moreover, and believe me. I will never defend any politician of any kind. The Patriot Act was authored by Joe Biden. BEFORE the Oklahoma City Bombing. I cannot stress this enough. Government. Any and all of it. Is wrong at a basic human rights level. This government is simply full of people who are playing the public like a fiddle. Giving you two different kinds of slavery to choose from and making sure they are your only choice. The last wall is dropping.

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:59 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
Moreover, and believe me. I will never defend any politician of any kind. The Patriot Act was authored by Joe Biden. BEFORE the Oklahoma City Bombing. I cannot stress this enough. Government. Any and all of it. Is wrong at a basic human rights level. This government is simply full of people who are playing the public like a fiddle. Giving you two different kinds of slavery to choose from and making sure they are your only choice. The last wall is dropping.


It's clear you believe all forms of govt are immoral, corrupt or corruptible, lack any desire for true public service, and just serve their own ends. In Autocracies, that's a given.

These things are all true to varying degrees in different democratic countries, different parties and the people within them, but to label them all the same, based on your philosophical approach, is as naive and simplistic as your alternative.


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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:58 pm
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My respects to this cordial discussion.
Sad to contemplate the fact that anyone promoting
him or herself to a position of power finds their hands tied.
Or not?

I´m too easily persuaded this way or that.
I guess that´s why I have avoided the conspiracy theorists.
Having worked for 15 years in advertising, I also mute commercials on TV.
News casts leave me wondering, just how one story displaces the previous one.
I feel insulted by the crude attempts at shaping public opinion.
I think about the information made public, and what is held back.
Technology being doled out on a schedule.
A consumer, working for the consumer-economy, then drive the kids
around to meet their goals.
After providing for my needs, just a bit of time to sound my guitar.
Who will I be in a local water dispute?
Is the coffee I drink product of slave labor, or should I trust the labels
that claim, -Socially responsible Industry?

Demographic explotion is grave. And it´s paradoxical that this accursed
pyramid is what has brought us to great achievements.

To me, google earth says it all. Glad I´ve got nothing to hide.
Trying to live as an individual here.
The phrase New World Order scares me.
I don´t think anyone knows where we´re headed.
Spiritual values make the difference.

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:17 pm
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One thing I have heard, is that if the worlds money & food was equally shared, world poverty and hunger would cease to exist instantly. Would it make much difference to our lives? One has to ponder. We have a lot of luxuries that we can easily do without to save others. Sometimes we even have to throw food out because it has passed expiry dates, yet people die of hunger elsewhere.. that's messed up.

But that says a lot about what makes the world go around. Certainly not human lives thats for sure.

Something that a lot of people tend not to think about whilst scoffing burgers at McDonalds.


..I'm having a moment of ponder. :?

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:37 pm
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According to one translation, a scripture from the Bible book of Jeremiah says, "It does not belong to a man who is walking to direct his own step."

Many people take offense at the idea that they're not capable of making intelligent/good/proper decisions for themselves or their families. However, what it really means is (imperfect, petty) humans must rely on a higher power (who has more intelligence, omniscience and power) in order to do the best they can do.

If an individual man, even though well-intentioned, intelligent and moral, is not capable of properly directing something as simple as where to put his foot, how would he be capable of perfectly leading a village, tribe, state or nation?

How much more incapable would an immoral or hateful person be?

...and that's what many leaders are--immoral, ambitious, hateful people who are more concerned about their agenda than helping their constituents (much less those who aren't their constituents).

What's the solution? Each person has to do their best in their own life and know that their leaders (chosen or not) will always fall short. It doesn't fix anything, but at least you won't be disappointed.

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:23 pm
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Blertles wrote:
One thing I have heard, is that if the worlds money & food was equally shared, world poverty and hunger would cease to exist instantly. Would it make much difference to our lives? One has to ponder. We have a lot of luxuries that we can easily do without to save others. Sometimes we even have to throw food out because it has passed expiry dates, yet people die of hunger elsewhere.. that's messed up.

But that says a lot about what makes the world go around. Certainly not human lives thats for sure.

Something that a lot of people tend not to think about whilst scoffing burgers at McDonalds.


..I'm having a moment of ponder. :?

What you just described is exactly what communism offers. But the reality is that under an extreme socialistic state, everyone but the government are equally poor.

Government will always be corrupt, our founding fathers knew this, and that's exactly why they tried their best experiment of making a government by the people for the people. And in under 200 years we became the most powerful country in the world. You think that's coincidence? Individual freedom makes for a stronger country, a country where innovation is rewarded with success and wealth. Take that innovative, entrepreneur spirit away in order to make it "fair for everyone", and you'll kill the drive. And that's exactly what has been slowly happening to our country. Even with this scandal, there's a lot of people who think "well I have nothing to hide, so I don't mind the government spying on me". It really disgusts me people who think that way.

Snowden is a hero, the real criminals reside in Washington DC, and they're wasting no time to call him a traitor.

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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:46 pm
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While I don't subscribe to King Pains version of anarchy, I've often thought that many democratic nations can easily run wihout government - if you look at what the function of so many have become.

Take a silly example; Italy. They can barely keep a govt together for 10 minutes, or stop fistfighting in parliament, when they weren't busy electing and supporting corrupt leaders.

Britain and Australia have nothing but professional politicians and lawyers, many of whom have never worked a real world job, knowing only the law, the beauracracy of beauracracy, or unions.

The only work they do is media - try and get into power, get the other lot out, and when in, simply legislate for redistribution of taxes and laws that tinker with the social system, and sell the idea they're creating jobs, wealth and good times. Any beauracrat can do that; as it is, they already do.

An absence of pollies wouldn't stop a nation from running. The western democracies have given us Thatcherism and Reaganism and turned over all national assets to 'the market', which grabbed it and ran with it for 25 years, there's precious little infrastructure for them to run. But we're all paying the price for the myth of the free market to keep prices competitive, and some of these companies are/were outright crooks or have established fat monopolies. See Enron.


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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:14 am
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1neeto wrote:
Individual freedom makes for a stronger country, a country where innovation is rewarded with success and wealth. Take that innovative, entrepreneur spirit away in order to make it "fair for everyone", and you'll kill the drive. And that's exactly what has been slowly happening to our country.

I don't agree that what has stymied the US economy. Plenty of countries have freedom and entrepreneurs. It's debt; everyday debt and a trillion $ war that's been going on for a decade. I was there a few years ago and the sub prime slump was starting to hit and foreclosures were happening everywhere. That's what happens when you throw regulations out, give the market too much run and lenders can give money to people who could never afford it in the first place.

Thatcher and Reagan always asserted that helpig the rich get richer makes for a strong ecomony, and it trickles down to all. I think that's rubbish, and history would seem to bear that out. The US bailed out Wall Street under such an ethos. When the rich get so stupid and greedy that they are able to undermine a whole economy (and endanger other), I think that's a bad economic concept. The western working poor everwhere are getting bigger in number, yet the rich are now billionaries insted of multi millionaires. Making things fairer doesn't stop people who know how to make big money from doing so.


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Post subject: Re: Another Of Our Rights Taken Away !
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:00 am
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Drubbing wrote:
I was there a few years ago and the sub prime slump was starting to hit and foreclosures were happening everywhere. That's what happens when you throw regulations out, give the market too much run and lenders can give money to people who could never afford it in the first place.


You sir are absolutely and utterly clueless about the cause of the sub-prime real estate mess.

It was Bill Clinton and his administration (spearheaded by his appointees at the Department of Health & Human Services, the Department of Housing and Urban Development, and the FHA) who ORDERED commercial lenders to make those risky home loans under penalty of investigative harrassment by Janet Reno at the Department of Justice, the regulators at the SEC, and the imperial storm troopers of the IRS. This, to pump up Clinton's popularity with minorities who had no business applying for loans they knew they would never be able to repay. Adding insult to injury, Clinton then ordered Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to underwrite those loans using taxpayer money. It wasn't lack of regulation that was to blame for the fiasco -- it was politically-motivated meddling in an industry that by and large worked well for nearly a century.

Arjay

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