It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:46 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: Effect Compressor
Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:33 pm
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:43 pm
Posts: 135
Maybe it's a trivial question...

I do when I play, I never used the Compressor effect and I know in broad terms what is it.

My question is:

Can you give me some advice on its use? Where to put it? How is it used? How best to use it? tips and tricks?

Thanks for any replies!

_________________
What you are now, I've been
What I am now, you will be
So..
Gives the time, the time you have


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Effect Compressor
Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:18 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:47 pm
Posts: 748
Hi MedalHellway.

Compressor effects for guitar evolved out of the traditional studio compressor, and in so doing, I think they became sort of a different breed.

In essence, a compressor deals with the dynamic range of the signal. Originally, the voltage climbs and drops through a vast volume range. When recording and mixing, this can become an issue, as an instrument may get too loud or get lost quite suddenly, also interfering with other signals´ content. At its worst, it will cause clips, resulting in distorsion or artifacts in digital recording.

In a VU meter, a compressed signal looks more uniform and predictable. The resulting sound gains in clarity, and the track nestles in the mix nicely with other frequency content.

The two basic variables are how much the signal is treated and when.
The how much is expressed by a ratio. 2:1 means that if the voltage jumps by 10Db, only a 5Db increase is reflected on output, thus cutting the range scope in half. Other common ratios are 3:1 and 4:1.
Curiously, on most guitar stomp boxes, the ratio is fixed at 4:1. Tweaking with the remaining controls one can craft a sound and response creatively, much like other boxes one uses to transform the tone of the guitar. But with these 3 knob compressors I find I lose the lively quality of melting soft tones into loud, as when starting a scale slow and accelerating the phrase or vice-versa. So the added sustain and cutting sound comes at a cost. Dialing a 2:1 ratio which preserves the liquid quality of volume variations is not an option in these circuits. They are more suited to funk, rock and distortion, less able for jazz and blues.

At which point the signal is compressed is controlled by a voltage threshold, which dictates how loud it gets before the circuit begins working. A high threshold setting leaves the signal relatively untouched, until it crosses that high voltage line, whereas a low threshold pretty much compresses the signal constantly.
The third variable will be the attack, which determines how fast the circuit clamps on the signal once the threshold is crossed. Tweaking with this function is sometimes referred to as manipulating the -breathing quality of the signal.

High compression values have yielded the term squashing. The timbre of the signal becomes noticeably different, less rich and glassy, more brittle and agressive. When highly compressing the dynamic range, the signal is sort of pushed to last longer horizontally. Thus, the 4th function, the release is tied to the sustain quality of the effect. A high release value means the compressor keeps engaged even as the volume curve fades away.

The controls on compressor stomp boxes can be puzzling, as manufacturers sometimes name them in creative-intuitive ways:
Grit, girth, spunk! :shock: So, knowing these 4 variables is helpful when reading the owner´s manual.

In browsing, I have found that newer units resemble more closely the original studio
compressor. This means we get the curious coloration options which are so attractive in pedals plus the original circuit controls for more purist compression.
Watching the demos online, these two stand out IMHO,
Pigtronix and Electro Harmonix.

Cheers.

_________________
FIGHT!


Last edited by mike07502 on Mon May 20, 2013 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Effect Compressor
Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 8:33 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 7998
Location: ʎɹʇunoɔ ǝsoɹ pןıʍ
Mike covered the tech details quite well but as to your question of when to use it I have a couple of thoughts.

It's quite useful for those ultra heavy crunch lead tones when you want that "whistling" tone way up high on the fretboard. Use lots of gain in the drive stage, a fair amount of chorus and gobs of compression with the neck pup only. Try to EQ any OD pedal you might be using for gain to a little on the bass side of things but not too much.

Another use is in heavy 'verb tones. Try running the compressor "in-line" with your reverb tank or pedal. That is, use the compressor as a dedicated effect in the reverb circuit alone, outside of your normal pedal signal chain. You can put it on either the send or return sides as it make very little difference but the result is reverb out the wazoo. You'll often need two adapters from RCA to ¼" to use it in this fashion with typical Fender tanks.

The difficulty in using compressor effects is finding one that doesn't colour the sound very much. A lot of cheaper compressors add significant noise to the signal. I tried several compressors a decade or more ago when I was using them regularly and the Keeley Compressor was by far the best one I tried. Transparent, clean. Only affects the signal strength, not the tone.

_________________
Image
Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Effect Compressor
Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:46 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:43 pm
Posts: 135
mike07502 wrote:
Hi MedalHellway.

Compressor effects for guitar evolved out of the traditional studio compressor, and in so doing, I think they became sort of a different breed.

In essence, a compressor deals with the dynamic range of the signal. Originally, the voltage climbs and drops through a vast volume range. When recording and mixing, this can become an issue, as an instrument may get too loud or get lost quite suddenly, also interfering with other signals´ content. At its worst, it will cause clips, resulting in distorsion or artifacts in digital recording.

In a VU meter, a compressed signal looks more uniform and predictable. The resulting sound gains in clarity, and the track nestles in the mix nicely with other frequency content.

The two basic variables are how much the signal is treated and when.
The how much is expressed by a ratio. 2:1 means that if the voltage jumps by 10Db, only a 5Db increase is reflected on output, thus cutting the range scope in half. Other common ratios are 3:1 and 4:1.
Curiously, on most guitar stomp boxes, the ratio is fixed at 4:1. Tweaking with the remaining controls one can craft a sound and response creatively, much like other boxes one uses to transform the tone of the guitar. But with these 3 knob compressors I find I lose the lively quality of melting soft tones into loud, as when starting a scale slow and accelerating the phrase or vice-versa. So the added sustain and cutting sound comes at a cost. Dialing a 2:1 ratio which preserves the liquid quality of volume variations is not an option in these circuits. They are more suited to funk, rock and distortion, less able for jazz and blues.

At which point the signal is compressed is controlled by a voltage threshold, which dictates how loud it gets before the circuit begins working. A high threshold setting leaves the signal relatively untouched, until it crosses that high voltage line, whereas a low threshold pretty much compresses the signal constantly.
The third variable will be the attack, which determines how fast the circuit clamps on the signal once the threshold is crossed. Tweaking with this function is sometimes referred to as manipulating the -breathing quality of the signal.

High compression values have yielded the term squashing. The timbre of the signal becomes noticeably different, less rich and glassy, more brittle and agressive. When highly compressing the dynamic range, the signal is sort of pushed to last longer horizontally. Thus, the 4th function, the release is tied to the sustain quality of the effect. A high release value means the compressor keeps engaged even as the volume curve fades away.

The controls on compressor stomp boxes can be puzzling, as manufacturers sometimes name them in creative-intuitive ways:
Grit, girth, spunk! :shock: So, knowing these 4 variables is helpful when reading the owner´s manual.

In browsing, I have found that newer units resemble more closely the original studio
compressor. This means we get the curious coloration options which are so attractive in pedals plus the original circuit controls for more purist compression.
Watching the demos online, these two stand out IMHO,
Pigtronix and Electro Harmonix.

Cheers.


+100 Thanks! Very complete explanation! :)

So the compressed (in other words), tends to keep the output signal in a range (to be determined). I really like to play with "expression", so many notes at low volume with high volumes with "soft" distortion (es. Mark Knopler style). In this case, the utility of the compressor is less or the fluidity of sound is compromised? Today I tried with my effect, but had no luck... :D

BMW-KTM wrote:
Mike covered the tech details quite well but as to your question of when to use it I have a couple of thoughts.

It's quite useful for those ultra heavy crunch lead tones when you want that "whistling" tone way up high on the fretboard. Use lots of gain in the drive stage, a fair amount of chorus and gobs of compression with the neck pup only. Try to EQ any OD pedal you might be using for gain to a little on the bass side of things but not too much.

Another use is in heavy 'verb tones. Try running the compressor "in-line" with your reverb tank or pedal. That is, use the compressor as a dedicated effect in the reverb circuit alone, outside of your normal pedal signal chain. You can put it on either the send or return sides as it make very little difference but the result is reverb out the wazoo. You'll often need two adapters from RCA to ¼" to use it in this fashion with typical Fender tanks.

The difficulty in using compressor effects is finding one that doesn't colour the sound very much. A lot of cheaper compressors add significant noise to the signal. I tried several compressors a decade or more ago when I was using them regularly and the Keeley Compressor was by far the best one I tried. Transparent, clean. Only affects the signal strength, not the tone.


+100

Thanks for you tips for use :)

Ultimately, the position of the compressor effect, determines in a fundamental way the sound. Thus, as described above, which would have the effect placement?

Thanks again man! Now, I understand a little better the magical world of effects! :D

_________________
What you are now, I've been
What I am now, you will be
So..
Gives the time, the time you have


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Effect Compressor
Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:44 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
I would always put any compressor FIRST in the effects chain. This is because other effects pedals produce noise and a compressor as part of it's normal function will make the noise of the other effects more apparent when you are not actually playing. Anyone who complains their compressor adds noise probably doesn't have it first in the effects chain.

The Keeley is an Operational Transconductance Amplifier type compressor. Almost all the pedal board type compressors are OTA type. The Keeley however uses tighter tolerances in their components and more simplicity in design to make the Keeley ultra quiet but functional. OTA compressors seem to work better for guitar than about anything else and they are fairly inexpensive to manufacture. Because of this economic advantage, compression circuits built into any other device, such as a guitar or bass amp or microphone preamp, will almost always be an OTA type. For bass an OTA compressor is difficult to set as it seems to suck the bass out of the tone when engaged at a setting that works good for a guitar. The Keeley is the one OTA compressor I've used for any length of time as a bassist. It is more forgiving than some of the other OTA's and while it can still kill the bass tone if over-applied it isn't as pronounced a kill-the-bass effect as on any other OTA pedal I've tried. I'll never buy another OTA compressor for bass, Keeley or otherwise.

Once I found OPTICAL compression I decided for me that was the only way to go for electric bass. An Optical type compressor is the only compressor I'll use now for electric bass. Optical compression was perfected by Teletronix during the mid 1960's when they brought out one of the most famous, simple and successful studio compressors of all time, the LA-2. This rack mounted hall of fame inducted device was a switchable optical limiter/compressor in one. A front mounted toggle switch turned the LA-2 into either a limiter or a compressor. The LA-2's compression function is frequently emulated to some degree in the compression options in most recording software. The LA-2 only had 3 knobs which were GAIN, PEAK REDUCTION & GAIN REDUCTION. This studio type optical compression technique has been adapted in very few models of stage compressors geared toward musicians. Two worthy optical types I've used are the Aphex Punch Factory (recently redesigned addressing a number of my suggested mods to the original design which I used for at least six years) and the MarkBass Compressore which I've used for the past two years. MarkBass touts the Compressore as a "TUBE COMPRESSOR" however it is really an optical compressor that uses a vacuum tube in place of the transistor in the output stage so that a variable voltage input changes the vacuum tube's bias instead of a transistor's gain with a more creamy result which at times can get muddy with certain EQ settings. I think the Aphex is far easier to use and sounds cleaner live but the MarkBass is more durable (except for the 12AX7 tube of course) and more versatile. I actually preferred the simplicity of the original 2 knob Punch Factory to the 3 knob Punch Factory of today. The Aphex pedal was always intended to be a musician's personal LA-2, and with the addition of the 3rd knob it gets more complicated. In compression mode the LA-2 was a 2 knob device. It was perfectly simple. The fact the original Punch Factory and the Keeley both only have 2 knobs make them the simplest compressors for a bassist to use. The Aphex legacy model Punch Factory for me was a set-it-and-forget-it thing and I liked that. Adjust the input drive so that the VU almost peaked then adjust the output to a suitable level. Easy. The Keeley was not as easy to set for bass and I abandoned it after a year of continuous fiddling with the knobs and rarely getting it right. The Keeley advantage is size, the thing is TINY.

Where compressors help bassists is in string to string balance and adding increased apparent sustain. Where they hurt is in attack. With all OTA compressors by the time you get some apparent compression action going you start killing low end, while with Optical types the integrity of the low end is firmer and more solid.

The Aphex Punch Factory might be the best all around optical now, but I've not evaluated the redesign in depth enough yet to make a sound judgment. However every criticism I had about the long running original model (which I loved the sound of) published on every review site was addressed in the redesign while they also added a 3rd knob to vary the compression ratio which makes it a bit less simple to use. Instead of the fixed 4 to 1 compression ratio of the original they put a variable ratio knob on it. That makes it more versatile but less convenient to set up.

If you try a Keeley and find it too shrill and killing the bass tones, switch to an optical type such as the Punch Factory or even the MarkBass Compressore. While marketed almost exclusively to bassists the Compressore is versatile enough for guitarists. In fact it can even be used to compress mixed tracks in recording applications with results surpassing the compression models built into recording software in clarity. The drawbacks to the Compressore are the size (huge compared to other compressor pedals including the original Punch Factory), the fact it requires it's own 12 V power supply means it won't run off your pedal board 9 V power so you have to run another AC cable and the thing has six knobs. However once you get the Compressore set to your liking the fact that the knobs are completely recessed means they stay put. That isn't true on the Punch Factory with the knobs fully exposed to every incidental or accidental brush and bump. My review of the new Punch Factory design will for sure have that criticism if none other. The adjustable ratio knob on the redesigned Punch Factory pedal is both a blessing and a curse. There really was nothing wrong with the preset 4 to 1 ratio on the orignal. It sounded fantastic for electric bass. I can't imagine going higher, but lower maybe to preserve attack for certain spanky things.


Last edited by brotherdave on Wed May 22, 2013 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Effect Compressor
Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:59 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:47 pm
Posts: 748
Thanks Brother Dave for taking the time.
Compression threads are very interesting to me.

MedalHellway asks where to place the compressor. I guess most people place it early in the chain rather than further down, and Brother Dave explains why. Even if it is a silent unit, the very nature of its purpose puts it first. Just as in a sophisticated mixing desk, the dynamics appear first in the channel strip, followed by the Eq and filters. So, first you stabilize the incoming signal and then treat it further. Compress the source to suit your needs and then let the rest of the effects do what they do without restricting their sonic spectrum. For example, I would guess that a compressor after a wah would choke it.

Maybe some other players who regularly work with pedal boards and long chains can tell
us in what order they configure their signal path. Way interesting! 8)

_________________
FIGHT!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Effect Compressor
Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:05 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 7998
Location: ʎɹʇunoɔ ǝsoɹ pןıʍ
When I was using compression fairly regularly I placed it right after my volume pedal and ahead of everything else.

_________________
Image
Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Effect Compressor
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:59 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
BMW-KTM wrote:
When I was using compression fairly regularly I placed it right after my volume pedal and ahead of everything else.


As volume pedals are passive devices and don't generate noise that is probably ok to do also. Still any cable hum, RFI etc will get sucked up by the compressor and made worse. Should work OK with good quality cables. A volume pedal isn't really an effects pedal anyway, it is just a remote volume control.


Last edited by brotherdave on Wed May 22, 2013 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Effect Compressor
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:21 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:57 am
Posts: 13164
Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
MedalHellway wrote:
I really like to play with "expression", so many notes at low volume with high volumes with "soft" distortion (es. Mark Knopler style). In this case, the utility of the compressor is less or the fluidity of sound is compromised?

Hi MedalHellway: to address that point specifically, Mark Knopfler is a highly prominent user of compression, throughout his career and most especially on those early Straits albums. Geeky debate persists over whether he actually used the Armstrong Orange Squeezer compressor on the first album (he definitely owned one at the time) or some other unit, but for sure you can't get the Sultans/Tunnel of Love/etc sound without a compressor.

Few guitarists use more dynamic expression than Knopfler, so self-evidently compression, properly used, is not the enemy of that sort of musicality. However, a general word of advice in addition to all the technical discussion, above. Compressors are rather subtle by the standards of guitar effects, so the temptation is to overuse them. However, like any effect, this is often a bad idea. Go easy on the level/effect knob. You might be inclined to turn it way up in order to feel the pedal is accomplishing anything much, but when you play it back you will find you have horribly overcooked things and will indeed have spoiled the expressiveness of your sound.

With compressors a little goes a long way.

Cheers - C

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Effect Compressor
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 9:59 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:43 pm
Posts: 135
@brotherdave: +1

Since I started this forum, brotherdave has always been present with its clear and precise answers. Is a pleasure to read his posts because they are an inexhaustible source of knowledge. I learned more from him than from many readings on the web. His response to this my curiosity (compressor effect) is tangible evidence. Thank you very much for introducing me to something more.

@mike07502: +1

Thank you for the reply. So, the best thing is insert the effect the beginning of the chain, so that it control all the rest of effects. Therefore it can also be used as "pre-amp"?

@BMW-KTM: +1

In fact, I was wondering exactly how to insert the volume :D

@ceri: +1

Yes, in fact MK makes a great use of Compressor, but I did not understand its use (until now :D). So. I advice you to be careful with its use (as everyone tells me!)?
I do when I play, rarely use a pick, so I like to hear all the "shades" the strings plucked by my fingers. I found the compressor effect an impediment to this but maybe I'm wrong! I simply use a Chorus Effect, Volume and Delay (if necessary other effect) and my Distortion effect is that of my tube amp. The compressor must become a part of this chain :)

Question: What is the best compressor on the market? Just to better understand the characteristics... I'm really in the dark :D

Thanks to All

_________________
What you are now, I've been
What I am now, you will be
So..
Gives the time, the time you have


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Effect Compressor
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:07 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:51 pm
Posts: 25353
Location: Witness Protection Program
I find that having a compressor before the sound goes into the amp can help greatly; I use a Keeley compressor before any other overdrive pedals (although some like it after).

For recording, I use a Sennheiser e906 into a Summit 2BA-221 Tube pre and then a TLA-50 tube compressor, mostly for warmth vs. tough compression.

_________________
Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Effect Compressor
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:27 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:43 pm
Posts: 135
WoW! Thanks Mike for you tip for recording. I learn something new :D +1!

_________________
What you are now, I've been
What I am now, you will be
So..
Gives the time, the time you have


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Effect Compressor
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 8:41 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:47 pm
Posts: 748
Hi MedalHellway.

Read Ceri´s advice... That´s the rub.

Forget about a compressor doing the job of a pre-amp.
Leave the gain knob untouched. Make-up gain will ruin your nice tone.
The other knobs, set at 9 O´clock. Set and forget. :D
...And play like that for a couple hours, then turn it off
and play without compression. That´s a good way to
understand the subtleness of it.

You ask for the best compressor,
most players mentioned keeley,
so you can´t go wrong.

_________________
FIGHT!


Last edited by mike07502 on Thu May 23, 2013 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Effect Compressor
Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:24 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:43 pm
Posts: 135
Ok! then I'll try your advice mike! :D

_________________
What you are now, I've been
What I am now, you will be
So..
Gives the time, the time you have


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Effect Compressor
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:56 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:43 pm
Posts: 135
Thank you your advice, I understand what it means to play with the compressor effect. You have opened up a world!

Thanks Again to all :D

_________________
What you are now, I've been
What I am now, you will be
So..
Gives the time, the time you have


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: