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Post subject: Re: Looper Pedals
Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:48 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Call me a dumbass (or a newbie), but I have a question. I don't care, because I want the TC Ditto looper no matter what the answer is, and I have ordered it, but:

Say I'm using a Fender Mustang 4 solid state amp with only the footswitch that changes the amp settings, say from clean deluxe reverb to a 90s distortion sound.

Ok, so if I put the looper pedal as my only pedal, how does it record and send the recorded signal to the amp? In other words, can I record my rhythm track on a clean setting, loop it, and then use my footswitch to change my amp to a higher gain tone for practicing soloing, and the looper pedal still sends the clean sound somehow to my amp, or does the amp take over and switch the rhythm track to the distorted tone, which would not work? If you follow me.

In other words, must I play the solo and the rhythm (looped) track on the same amp setting? I'm fearing this is the answer because the looper pedal can only record the message my strings and pickups gave it, and then send that signal to the amp, but the amp switched to a distorted tone will still interpret it that way but apply the distorted tone?

If this is the answer, of course, this is an argument for why I need to get my boost/overdrive from a real pedal, not the Mustang's digital settings, and then use the Mustang as a "real amp" left on the clean setting, and then have the looper pedal last in line before the amp. In that case, I guess I could record the looped rhythm track on clean and it will still go to a clean amp but then when I solo using my real pedal that comes before the looper in the chain, that's how I play lead on a higher gain tone. Right??

also check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-ouNW8qEjk


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Post subject: Re: Looper Pedals
Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:50 am
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:02 pm
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I'm not clear on this concept of "tone sucking".

If you're worried about having your signal passed through a couple of transistors then wire up a true bypass switch. Obviously the tone of the digitally recorded signal won't match the exact tone from your preamp but as with so many arguments about tone the only person who'll notice is you. 99% of your audience can't tell the difference between a tube amp and a solid state amp. Most of the time they wouldn't know if you're playing through a tin can telephone with a broken kazoo for a loudspeaker.

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Post subject: Re: Looper Pedals
Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:56 am
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Her Wanna wrote:
Call me a dumbass (or a newbie), but I have a question.


No harm in asking questions!

The looper pedal would work best in your effects loop, between the preamp and power amp. That way it can record a clean track and play it back through the power amp while still allowing you to change to a distorted preamp setting. That means you can play distorted lead over a clean backing.

If you put a looper before the preamp - that is, plug from guitar into looper into amp - then then clean/overdrive sound of anything it plays back will be shaped (or distorted!) by the preamp, along with your straight (non-looped) guitar sound. The result can turn into a big overdriven mush of intermodulating nastiness. And that's not nasty in a good way. You know when you strum open chords through a distortion pedal? Well imagine that, but looped. Not good.

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Post subject: Re: Looper Pedals
Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:08 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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GilgaFrank wrote:
Her Wanna wrote:
Call me a dumbass (or a newbie), but I have a question.


No harm in asking questions!

The looper pedal would work best in your effects loop, between the preamp and power amp. That way it can record a clean track and play it back through the power amp while still allowing you to change to a distorted preamp setting. That means you can play distorted lead over a clean backing.

If you put a looper before the preamp - that is, plug from guitar into looper into amp - then then clean/overdrive sound of anything it plays back will be shaped (or distorted!) by the preamp, along with your straight (non-looped) guitar sound. The result can turn into a big overdriven mush of intermodulating nastiness. And that's not nasty in a good way. You know when you strum open chords through a distortion pedal? Well imagine that, but looped. Not good.


Thanks. Yeah, so in other words, I have figured out the answer to my question. Because I am using a Mustang amp and not a real overdrive pedal, I’m actually changing “the amp” with the foot switch, which plugs into the back through some other input, not in the pedal chain. So until I get a real pedal for boost/distortion, I’ll have to play everything (looped rhythm and lead playing) on the same direct-to-amp clean setting. When I use the amp’s footswitch to change to my Nirvana 90s tone, I’m actually “changing” “the amp” that the looped track would go through.

I need to have a distortion pedal and have the looper last in the chain. The TC Ditto is supposed to be true bypass. So then the first couple of looped tracks can be done in clean and then use the pedal, which is before the looper, for lead tone.

Also being a home solid state only player thus far, I don't understand pre-amp/power amp terminology.


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Post subject: Re: Looper Pedals
Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:53 pm
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Her Wanna wrote:
Thanks. Yeah, so in other words, I have figured out the answer to my question. Because I am using a Mustang amp and not a real overdrive pedal, I’m actually changing “the amp” with the foot switch, which plugs into the back through some other input, not in the pedal chain. So until I get a real pedal for boost/distortion, I’ll have to play everything (looped rhythm and lead playing) on the same direct-to-amp clean setting. When I use the amp’s footswitch to change to my Nirvana 90s tone, I’m actually “changing” “the amp” that the looped track would go through.

I need to have a distortion pedal and have the looper last in the chain. The TC Ditto is supposed to be true bypass. So then the first couple of looped tracks can be done in clean and then use the pedal, which is before the looper, for lead tone.

Also being a home solid state only player thus far, I don't understand pre-amp/power amp terminology.


What I'm saying is that in order to switch clean/distortion sounds on your "live" guitar while looping a track, you need to use the looper in the effects loop of your amplifier.

As for pre/power amp definitions ... all amplifiers (tube and solid state) consist of a pre and power amp. In guitar amps, the preamp is the bit you plug your guitar into, that's where the distortion/clean setting is and where the tone controls are. The power amp is the section that drives the speakers. Typically the effects loop is between the preamp and the power amp. This means that your guitar signal is preamplified, whether clean or distorted, then passed through the effects loop, then into the power amp to drive the speakers. So the ideal place for the looper is in the efffects loop where it can reproduce either clean or distorted tones while you switch the "live" guitar to either clean or distorted to play along with it.

The problem comes when you don't use the effects loop and plug the looper straight into the amp's input (i.e. the preamp intput). If you do this then the looped sound may be distorted by the preamp along with your live guitar. And that generally sounds like a horrible mush.

So yes, looper last in the chain.

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Post subject: Re: Looper Pedals
Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:58 pm
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Just as a general rule, VOLUME-based effects that alter your signal level in any way go before the preamp, into the amp's guitar input. That's things like distortions, compressors, EQ's, filters and wah pedals.

Anything that produces a TIME-based effect - delays, loopers, reverbs as well as modulation effects like chorus, flangers, phasers - go in the effects loop.

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Post subject: Re: Looper Pedals
Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:24 pm
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The RC2 works a treat....... I've owned it for many years and i have tried to get into the depths of it like once....But as a one shot looper it will sit alone after the input been pulled and loop your progression nicely whilst you plug into you favorite box and solo your fingers off!!! You can track over the top very easily and before you know it you've 2 and three tracks running.....Its a pearler....And its a metronome.....and you can save progressions or complete arrangements...its a lot of kit for the money huh.... 8)

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