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Post subject: Re: Contest not available in Belgium ?! Why !!
Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 9:55 pm
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Nothing wrong with writing off & crediting one of their distributors a guitar for a prize- after all that's what other companies do. That eliminates local VAT or GST or whatever local consumer tax is called in your country.

Has nothing to do with external 'Distributers' agreements at all. This is what distributors/wholesales do to get 'demo' stock into a sales consultants hands to demonstrate and sell a product & have confidence in said product.
It is also how competition prizes are managed.. By most companies who run them.

For my country (New Zealand) such products must comply with consumer guarantees act legislation- which means said prize should have a warranty, be able to be serviced in a reasonable timeframe also. This excludes all internationally acquired prizes that were not sourced locally and all products purchased outside of NZ. Also, making a prize winner responsible for import duties is against our Fair Trading Legislation also. Hence why it's far easier to credit your local distributor, and send the product to your nearest retailer.

I entered a competition last week for a Marshall amp & besides my name and address, they were wanting to know what my local music instrument retailer was so if I did win- they would send the prize straight to them so they can give me a receipt/proof of sale for warranty purposes.

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Post subject: Re: Contest not available in Belgium ?! Why !!
Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:06 pm
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Drubbing wrote:
tbazzone wrote:
You sure seen to enjoy blaming fender for a lot of your issues

I guess you're alluding to my other posts. The fact they aim to exploit buyers here? My issue? Their prices suck. That's their issue. They're losing margins because people are buying elsewhere, or other brands. That's their issue.

Live outside the US, and many more would be doing the same.

They run an international forum and promote comps on it that only US residents can enter. I don't care much about that, I'm not the OP here, but being global they could actually fix that too.


If I'm not mistaken, you are a guest on the Fender US forum.


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Post subject: Re: Contest not available in Belgium ?! Why !!
Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:14 pm
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GTG wrote:
Drubbing wrote:
tbazzone wrote:
You sure seen to enjoy blaming fender for a lot of your issues

I guess you're alluding to my other posts. The fact they aim to exploit buyers here? My issue? Their prices suck. That's their issue. They're losing margins because people are buying elsewhere, or other brands. That's their issue.

Live outside the US, and many more would be doing the same.

They run an international forum and promote comps on it that only US residents can enter. I don't care much about that, I'm not the OP here, but being global they could actually fix that too.


If I'm not mistaken, you are a guest on the Fender US forum.


There is no Fender US forum, and we are all members- not guests.

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Post subject: Re: Contest not available in Belgium ?! Why !!
Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:25 pm
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GTG wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, you are a guest on the Fender US forum.

I guess that makes you one too. :


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Post subject: Re: Contest not available in Belgium ?! Why !!
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 7:25 am
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Blertles wrote:
Nothing wrong with writing off & crediting one of their distributors a guitar for a prize- after all that's what other companies do. That eliminates local VAT or GST or whatever local consumer tax is called in your country.

Has nothing to do with external 'Distributers' agreements at all. This is what distributors/wholesales do to get 'demo' stock into a sales consultants hands to demonstrate and sell a product & have confidence in said product.
It is also how competition prizes are managed.. By most companies who run them.

For my country (New Zealand) such products must comply with consumer guarantees act legislation- which means said prize should have a warranty, be able to be serviced in a reasonable timeframe also. This excludes all internationally acquired prizes that were not sourced locally and all products purchased outside of NZ. Also, making a prize winner responsible for import duties is against our Fair Trading Legislation also. Hence why it's far easier to credit your local distributor, and send the product to your nearest retailer.

I entered a competition last week for a Marshall amp & besides my name and address, they were wanting to know what my local music instrument retailer was so if I did win- they would send the prize straight to them so they can give me a receipt/proof of sale for warranty purposes.


How does giving something away free make the VAT/IMPORT DUTY go away? It doesn't! An imported item whether a demo, a giveaway promo or imported for sale is subject to trade tariffs.

I know from experience that if you import anything into the Bahamas you pay 50% import duty period, even if you are going to give it away free. There is no tariff exemption. I used to travel extensively on New Providence Island in the Bahamas for months at a time doing volunteer work and wanted to have a car while there but couldn't bring my own car into the Bahamas without paying import duty on it even though I was going to donate it to the BAPTIST ORPHANAGE when I left each time. I was going to buy a used car in Ft. Lauderdale and take it over myself, drive it a while (demo it) and donate (give it away) to the Orphanage to use or sell. Items you are giving away free still have to be imported and sent to the distributor and has to go through customs and customs wants their money.

What is the link to that international Marshall contest?

This is part of the reason for the complaints about international product pricing, import tariffs. Funny how substantially other countries tax imports from the USA while expecting the USA to import items from them tariff free. Import tariff's also were part of the reason export Fender instruments in the UK used to come with UK made canses not USA made cases.


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Post subject: Re: Contest not available in Belgium ?! Why !!
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 1:21 pm
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brotherdave has a couple of good posts with solid explanations here.

It is not feasible for Fender (or just about any other company) to run a contest or give-away on a global scale. I know this because I work for a similar company and I have been responsible for promotions that included free prizes.

Fender has a huge brand image, but the company itself is not as big as that image. The several marketing people that put together such a give-away promotion don't have the resources to investigate the regulations of many countries for giving away a prize. Most countries have rules an regulations to protect consumers, to make sure contests and prizes are handled in a fair manner.

How can a company determine the regulations in any country to make sure they properly comply with those regulations? In reality, Fender needs to have advice of a lawyer in each country where they may award a prize.

Ultimately, it is the responsibility for Fender's representative distributor in your country to run marketing campaigns in your country. And it is much easier for that company to know the regulations in your country. Contact them and ask them to run a give-away promotion from time to time.

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Post subject: Re: Contest not available in Belgium ?! Why !!
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 2:48 pm
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It is only logical that contests can only be realistically managed
by region or country. International affairs and all the absurd paper-work are
way too complicated to fuzz over such small events, 1 item scenarios.
-What do you mean it got lost in Barbados? I WON THIS GUITAR DAMMIT :lol:

But as to those posts that demand that Fender lower prices,
and there were comments of greed, there was a post in here
perhaps eight months ago. An article on finances, debt and proyection.
I came away knowing that Fender does not have it any easier than
anyone else in this economic contraction era. Long term finance committments
really leave you with very little space to maneuver. And I think Fender is doing
a great job of staying focused.
I don´t think guitars are a great buisiness.
The number one buisiness, pharmaceuticals. Number two, cosmetics. I think
soft drinks and chips figure around number six, and so on.

Finally, I think we are all clear that,
-as soon as them Strats leave tha mainlands USA, they becomes expensive little Johnny-.

The US internal market is any consumer´s dream. For those of us
living elsewhere, there is a price to pay. And that makes sense to me.
If we are finally having a much needed food-fight in the Forum count me in! :P

All the same I got this killer 89 strat Japan for less than $250 dollars.
Just has the wrong plate on it, a 24 year old Strat that sounds and handles great.
I´ll take this over a new Standard at the Mx dealership any day of the week man.
So it is a working man´s guitar just like SA said on the discussion held
at the MF no friend... thread.

...All these current tv shows on trades and buying deposits and auctions, there´s
a reason they are airing. Life in the trenches is where we are.
And how do I know this buy is a great Strat? I own a very expensive one.

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Post subject: Re: Contest not available in Belgium ?! Why !!
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 5:21 pm
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brotherdave wrote:
Blertles wrote:
Nothing wrong with writing off & crediting one of their distributors a guitar for a prize- after all that's what other companies do. That eliminates local VAT or GST or whatever local consumer tax is called in your country.

Has nothing to do with external 'Distributers' agreements at all. This is what distributors/wholesales do to get 'demo' stock into a sales consultants hands to demonstrate and sell a product & have confidence in said product.
It is also how competition prizes are managed.. By most companies who run them.

For my country (New Zealand) such products must comply with consumer guarantees act legislation- which means said prize should have a warranty, be able to be serviced in a reasonable timeframe also. This excludes all internationally acquired prizes that were not sourced locally and all products purchased outside of NZ. Also, making a prize winner responsible for import duties is against our Fair Trading Legislation also. Hence why it's far easier to credit your local distributor, and send the product to your nearest retailer.

I entered a competition last week for a Marshall amp & besides my name and address, they were wanting to know what my local music instrument retailer was so if I did win- they would send the prize straight to them so they can give me a receipt/proof of sale for warranty purposes.


How does giving something away free make the VAT/IMPORT DUTY go away? It doesn't! An imported item whether a demo, a giveaway promo or imported for sale is subject to trade tariffs.

I know from experience that if you import anything into the Bahamas you pay 50% import duty period, even if you are going to give it away free. There is no tariff exemption. I used to travel extensively on New Providence Island in the Bahamas for months at a time doing volunteer work and wanted to have a car while there but couldn't bring my own car into the Bahamas without paying import duty on it even though I was going to donate it to the BAPTIST ORPHANAGE when I left each time. I was going to buy a used car in Ft. Lauderdale and take it over myself, drive it a while (demo it) and donate (give it away) to the Orphanage to use or sell. Items you are giving away free still have to be imported and sent to the distributor and has to go through customs and customs wants their money.

What is the link to that international Marshall contest?

This is part of the reason for the complaints about international product pricing, import tariffs. Funny how substantially other countries tax imports from the USA while expecting the USA to import items from them tariff free. Import tariff's also were part of the reason export Fender instruments in the UK used to come with UK made canses not USA made cases.


The link is here- international contestants are ineligible :mrgreen:

http://www.rockshop.co.nz/competitions/ ... mpetition/

The prizes are being written off by Fender aswel as other vendors to offset the cost of having the competition. The prizes will be sent to the respective stores and be invoiced to validate a warranty, however they will have a $0 balance on them. Granted this retailer is the #1 seller of Fender in New Zealand, they should get a freebie at least to write off. This is how a competition should be run.

I've noted in another recent thread:

Quote:
To have a bearing in this discussion, these are today's foriegn currency figures:

AUD$1 = US $0.99
AUD$1 = NZD $1.19
NZD$1 = US $0.82

For an American Standard Stratocaster in Black, these are the $RRP figures I have based off the Internet:

Australia: AUD$1899
USA: USD$1199
New Zealand: $2299

Bearing in mind here, AUD$1 = USD$0.99.

Looking at these figures, I cannot see how there can be a $700 price difference between USA and Australia. Considering a free trade deal between NZ, Australian and USA- there are no tariffs charged. The only thing that can be charged is local goods and services tax and shipping costs. Even so, it still doesn't add up.

At these prices, if drubbing was looking to purchase a customshop masterbuilt Strat from a retailer in Australia, he would be far better off flying to the USA to do so. He would also claim back any duties paid if he wanted to,and he could conceal his sales receipt in his suitcase so he wouldn't pay tax bringing it into the country. He would do this, paying less than that if he still bought in Australia.

Another example:

Fender Customshop '56 Stratocaster Relic:

USD$2959
AUD$4795
NZD$5795

I'm finding it hard to see where the import tariffs (if any at all) or taxes are causing such a huge price difference. To me it looks like its Fender's international pricing, at the wholesale level. Even shipping wouldn't make that much of a jump in price. I think it's a little unfair, personally. However, if I want a holiday and a Customshop guitar in one- rest assured ill be booking a flight to the USA


Please tell me why in Australia, there is a huge price difference when there is a free trade agreement and the US to AU currency is basically the same? Shipping doesn't cost THAT much either.. Neither do tariffs at our border.

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Post subject: Re: Contest not available in Belgium ?! Why !!
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 7:19 pm
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[quote="Blertles"
I guess you're alluding to my other posts. The fact they aim to exploit buyers here? My issue? Their prices suck. That's their issue. They're losing margins because people are buying elsewhere, or other brands. That's their issue.

Live outside the US, and many more would be doing the same.

They run an international forum and promote comps on it that only US residents can enter. I don't care much about that, I'm not the OP here, but being global they could actually fix that too.[/quote]

If I'm not mistaken, you are a guest on the Fender US forum.[/quote]

There is no Fender US forum, and we are all members- not guests.[/quote]

Hey, wiener. I thought you blocked me. :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: Contest not available in Belgium ?! Why !!
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:02 pm
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Indeed I did. However I have to laugh at some of your posts. I honestly can't help myself :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Contest not available in Belgium ?! Why !!
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:09 pm
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Blertles wrote:
Indeed I did. However I have to laugh at some of your posts. I honestly can't help myself :wink:


I'm glad you can laugh. You and Drubbing keep me crying. So, if I'm blocked, how can you see my skulduggery? :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: Contest not available in Belgium ?! Why !!
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:10 pm
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Free trade agreements are riddled with thousands of pages of BS.

The world is absurd.

Fender guitars in Mexico are marked about +35%.
Even the ones made in Mexico, mind you.

Still, Fender prices don´t suck, is MHO.
I pay what I pay and watch my Fenders appreciate
as the superior instruments they are by nature.

I don´t complain, I try harder to provide for my needs.
So I had to save for 8 months to get a CS, and pay
$700 dollars in duties to a greasy ape. Who cares
about my toils? Do you? I go in the studio and the
owner raps about having payed $4000 dollars for a high end compressor.
-So plug it in man. :D

And just for the helibud let´s add another picture sweet!
Here is my other Japan 89 Strat, also aquired for less than $250.
This one I set hardtail
and it records beautifully. Love the necks and warm tone on these guitars. :D

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Last edited by mike07502 on Fri May 17, 2013 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Contest not available in Belgium ?! Why !!
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:41 pm
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mike07502 wrote:
Free trade agreements are riddled with thousands of pages of BS.

The world is absurd.

Fender guitars in Mexico are marked about +35%.
Even the ones made in Mexico, mind you.

Still, Fender prices don´t suck, is MHO.
I pay what I pay and watch my Fenders appreciate
as the superior instruments they are by nature.

I don´t complain, I try harder to provide for my needs.
So I had to save for 8 months to get a CS, and pay
$700 dollars in duties to a greasy ape. Who cares
about my toils? Do you? I go in the studio and the
owner raps about having payed $4000 dollars for a high end compressor.
-So plug it in man. :D
The CS Strat is home now to last a life time and I go on.

And just for the helibud let´s add another picture sweet!
Here is my other Japan 89 Strat, also aquired for less than $250
in the scene south of the border. This one I set hardtail
and it records beautifully. Love the necks and warm tone on these guitars. :D

Image


I care very much about your toils. In my life, in the USA, I could never afford to buy a guitar until I was 52 years old. Unsteady construction work and a family precluded it. There seems to be a worldwide sense of entitlement now a days by reading other posts. So when I win the EC giveaway, I hope there won't be any hard feelings. :P


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Post subject: Re: Contest not available in Belgium ?! Why !!
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 11:19 pm
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GTG,

I regret some of my posts sometimes for being obnoxious.

My point is one can get a great Fender for the right price,
anywhere in the world.
And the system is what it is.

After 28 years of playing guitar, finally getting my hands
on a crafty guitar through sacrifice, yes I brag about that.

About caring or not for someone struggling or being cross,
my point was let´s share the information and move on,
not run in circles about trade being unfair.

Thanks for your humbling comment and all the best.

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Post subject: Re: Contest not available in Belgium ?! Why !!
Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 12:24 am
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To be honest- I do care about pricing, however I'm not a novice buyer by all means- I will go wherever I have to go, to get the right price, even if that means sourcing from overseas retailers.

All I am getting at, is that its cheaper to buy a return airline ticket to LA and buy a Customshop Strat, rather than buy one domestically. I think as a company- you shoot yourself in the foot to do this to your internal customers and stakeholders.. Especially in times when the dollar is strong against the US dollar. This has opened a vacuum for many people to buy guitars in bulk from LA Guitar Centres, bring them back here and flip them for a profit.

Believe me, people do it. I know of a trader on our local sites that is doing this with Les Pauls and Customshop Strats. He is selling Les Paul Supreme's from Guitar Centre at NZ$4500 where the RRP here is $6999, and some retailers cannot understand why they cant sell their product. Funnily enough, the same licensed importer for Fender actually imports Gibson also :roll: With a market open for parallel importing, hell- I should have a go at it myself! :) Hence why I will be flying to the states if I want to pay retail, at least I will tick a road trip holiday in California off my bucket list also.. :wink:

Truth be told, 3 of my Strats were purchased overseas and brought back to my country. 2 by myself, from Australia and Japan. My Strat Ultra originally was bought from the UK. My rule of thumb: anything over the price of $1500 for something USA made for me is not feasible to buy domestically- my first place I look is Japan for a good deal.

Im not angry at all and I have enough Fender guitars to keep me content & I don't plan on spending large on anything in the catalogue in the near future. I have access to music retailers overseas so that part for me, doesn't come into question either.

Seems that some get very defensive & when we suggest Fender's wholesale prices either before wholesale level or after- are too high for our locale. Fender actually operate by an import company that also trade as Fender NZ.. Instantly offence is taken and our import tariffs are blamed however. Some are just not open-minded enough to see the bigger picture here, which is a joke. Yeah I love Fender too, don't get me wrong. Im just not as fanatical as some of the fanboys are, and I mean no offence when I say that.

On that note, Ive nothing more to say as this has gone very off topic lol

Peace out.

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