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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 6:13 pm
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I have read some of the statements made by others from outside the U.S. and it seems that just about everyong outside U.S. borders pays a premium for U.S. made gear-even in Canada where we are supposed to have a free trade agreement in place with the U.S. (which makes the refusal of some companies to ship to Canada even more puzzling) but still pay significantly more than people in the U.S. do.What really gets under the skin of Canadians is the premium that they pay on cars,a couple of years ago I looked at the price of a new Subaru Impreza and the cheapest one here was $27,000 and the same model but even better equipped cost just over $23,000 in the nearest U.S. state, Maine. What is even more riduculous is that a Canadian made Toyota costs less in the U.S. than in Canada-something as blatantly out of whack as this is downright indefensible.It all boils down to Canadian retailers and importers chiseling the public-as many investigative news programs have found-but these companies pay really big bucks for spindoctoring "spokesmen" whose job it is to make up "facts and figures" and assorted BS to justify and "explain" the anomalies in prices. The government is dragging its feet in doing anything about this because the Harper government is deep in the pockets of big business and reluctant to be responsible for getting their dander up,the way that they pander to the oil companies and cast a blind eye to the environmental holocaust that the Alberta tar sands and pipeline are causing is a glowing example of this.

The good folks in Australia and New Zealand may have better luck with a site in Japan called GUITARS JAPAN http://www.guitarsjapan.com/ they have a huge selection of very slightly used Fenders in mint or near mint condition.Cheers.

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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 6:47 pm
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mike07502 wrote:
Drubbing, here is my experience hoping it will add to the picture,
I live in Mexico. The free trade agreement, American products are
supposed to be exempt from tariffs. Instead, the creeps at customs down here
made me pay $700 dollars in duties to bring in a $3600 Fender which I was able
to declare for $2500. That´s the world man. If trade is trying to gauge Australia,
informed Austalian consumers will boycott. For my part, the money was well spent.

That's pretty stiff. I can't comment on your trade situations and tariffs, but the above poster was happy to make excuses for Fender based on his (wrong) assumptions of the same here.

I do know that US is the only trader where we get charged no import taxes on goods, even those over $1000, which is the standard threshold for taxes from elsewhere, just 10% local tax is added. Of course, commercial importers don't have the same luxuries, but we're not asking for parity pricing here.


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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:07 pm
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Screamin' Armadillo wrote:
Drubbing wrote:
Retailers aren't creaming most of the profit here, that's done at wholesale. My local dealer couldn't shift off $499 for a new SCx2 (RRP $650). I tried a couple of others, same story. Guess what? No sale.

Fro guitars, you don't even know the RRP, because they don't provide one. I asked my Fender rep. He said, see your dealer. Meaning they'll charge as much as people will pay.

I don't mind paying a small premium for the smaller market here and being able to play guitars too (I'm a lefty but that's another guitar problem), but I'll not pay $1000 for a MIM. Drop your prices Fender, stop being greedy and you'll sell more.

You could not be more wrong...it's not greed on the part of Fender creating the problem.

Fender doesn't charge the premiums for exporting their guitars--it's the import charges/tariffs (if there are any), the shipping, the smaller market the foreign buyer is living in, the "middle man" and retailer both trying to make a profit, and just the general economy that makes that MIM Lefty guitar cost $1000 (I don't know what that is in US dollars, but I'm going to assume it's somewhat costly).

IF Fender were to drop their prices, one of three scenarios would happen (or a combination of the three):

(1) the customer would most likely not see any major savings; the import tariff, if any, would be less (because they're usually based on a percentage of the selling price of the product), but no one else in the equation--the shipper, the middle man, the retailer--would take less of a cut...in fact, since they know the price the market will allow is $1000, they would keep the price at that point and make even more profit. Therefore, the only savings that could conceivably happen is the percentage of the import tariff itself.

(2) Fender would become less elite, less desirable, and thus less valuable, which means you wouldn't care to play it, which means fewer people would buy them, which means they would go out of business.
Case in point: CF Martin makes some very good acoustic guitars, some of the best in the business...but most Martins aren't worth the price difference between themselves and "lesser" acoustic guitar manufacturers/companies. The prestige and beauty of the brand is something that is maintained by a few cosmetic improvements, the perceived value of an instrument made by a storied company, and the higher cost.

The high cost of a Martin keeps up the mystique and perceived value of the company (This is also true of a US-made Gibson).

Fender has always been the "working man's" guitar (in a cost-comparison to Gibson and Martin), but they've never undercut themselves so much that there's a lower perceived value...if Fender started undercutting themselves, they would end up being the Wal-Mart of guitar.

(3) Quality would decrease, because when you cut cost, you're going to have to cut costs of materials, labor, craftsmanship or options (including the number of lefties produced).

So Fender (and what you perceive as "greed") isn't the problem, and cutting costs (although initially attractive) will not fix your dilemma.


S.A, here is where we get ripped off. Whether its fender or the retailer, who knows? However the prices seem to be uniform across retailers so im guessing its Fenders Australasian arm of the business.

To have a bearing in this discussion, these are today's foriegn currency figures:

AUD$1 = US $0.99
AUD$1 = NZD $1.19
NZD$1 = US $0.82

For an American Standard Stratocaster in Black, these are the $RRP figures I have based off the Internet:

Australia: AUD$1899
USA: USD$1199
New Zealand: $2299

Bearing in mind here, AUD$1 = USD$0.99.

Looking at these figures, I cannot see how there can be a $700 price difference between USA and Australia. Considering a free trade deal between NZ, Australian and USA- there are no tariffs charged. The only thing that can be charged is local goods and services tax and shipping costs. Even so, it still doesn't add up.

At these prices, if drubbing was looking to purchase a customshop masterbuilt Strat from a retailer in Australia, he would be far better off flying to the USA to do so. He would also claim back any duties paid if he wanted to,and he could conceal his sales receipt in his suitcase so he wouldn't pay tax bringing it into the country. He would do this, paying less than that if he still bought in Australia.

Another example:

Fender Customshop '56 Stratocaster Relic:

USD$2959
AUD$4795
NZD$5795

I'm finding it hard to see where the import tariffs (if any at all) or taxes are causing such a huge price difference. To me it looks like its Fender's international pricing, at the wholesale level. Even shipping wouldn't make that much of a jump in price. I think it's a little unfair, personally. However, if I want a holiday and a Customshop guitar in one- rest assured ill be booking a flight to the USA :wink:

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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:19 pm
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Thanks Blerties, that's pretty specific. Not only that, who in the US even pays that retail? Try shifting Aus sellers off theirs. Then the difference widens again.

I realise US posters don't care about our situation, but I don't care for fanboyism and pointing the finger away from Fender either. I've actually done homework on this. I point this out because Fender's own site is as good a place to make the point about costs.

I don't want to buy heaps of guitars, some guys do. I'm left handed, but that's another Fender beef for another day, as it massively restricts my choices.

We know we're being ripped off. People are going elsewhere, and Fender, their retailer partners, and us, are all the losers.


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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:42 pm
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At the end of the day, it's Fender who still get the business regardless. I do strongly believe something needs to be done about the pricing though. Consumers are paying far too much downunder and even still they sometimes think they are getting a bargain.

The rule to this- '..because they can'. It has worked for iTunes though has been addressed where people in the USA were paying substantially less for local homegrown music and Apple buckled under heavy media attention. Same for Adidas selling All Blacks Rugby jerseys in the US and Canada cheaper than here in NZ when they were going for twice the price in local retailers. There will be many unspoken companies that do the same.

Basically, if people will pay- they will pay. Believe it or not, that is how a lot of companies structure pricing.

For your lefty needs, I'd strongly recommend Ishibashi ubox, or even go to Japan and buy new. The market for left handed instruments is far better than restricting yourself to a few select models. I've personally bought from Japan and found it very easy to do so.

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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 3:13 pm
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Ok guys here is some prospective from an American who lived in Canada. Look in the mirror and blame YOUR country! I noticed huge differences on gear prices when I was living in Ontario. Between HST, import taxes etc it drove the prices increasingly high. Don't give me the free trade bit. The folks at customs in Canada were as organized and knowledgeable as a riot crowd. Not once in the 2 years I lived there did I meet a customs official who gave me the same answer on import issues! So before you start to beat up on Fender and the US look at where you are. When I was stationed in Germany back in the 80's/90's you would buy a BMW for the price of a cheap Chevy. In the states not the same and WE had trade agreements with the Germans. It is all about where you are at. I will say that more than likely it is the wholesalers who are making these huge markups and the retailers are going down as far as they can to make some sort of profit.
ABS :D


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Post subject: Re: M..It's norF. no friend to potential international custo
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 5:09 pm
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Thanks for that ABS,the officials who are manning some of these customs and postal stations have a bad case of Fecal Cranial Syndrome and have no clue what the cut and dried rules are governing the importation of an awful lot of goods-even the ones that are supposed to be exempt because they fall under the free trade agreement.It's no good to try and argue or reason with them because a lot of them feel that they're in a position of "power" and they have free rein to interpret the rules which ever way suits them on any given day.

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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 5:59 pm
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So we blame everyone, their customs officers and governments, except Fender?

Of course a BMW will be cheaper in Germany, then the US. Looking for fairness, not parity.

Just because a few customs officers might not know some basic facts doesn't invalidate every free trade agreement made.

I agree the wholesalers are usually the ones making the huge markups. In Aus, Fender is the wholesaler.


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