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Post subject: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:03 pm
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Last night I spent a lot of time going through the Musician's Friend on-line shop because they had a Canadian flag at the top of the page and stated that they shipped orders to Canada.I was looking for baseball caps and T-shirts with Fender,Vox,Marshall and Electro Harmonix logos on them.After going over these items as well as a lot of their gear, I decided that I had plenty of caps and T-shirts in my "shopping cart" and went on to place my order using my Paypal account.When I was literally down to performing the last function to place my order a notice printed in red letters came up stating that the items that I had ordered were all exempt from their policy to ship to Canada.I absolutely abhor doing anything that is a waste of time and this ended up being a collossal unnecessary waste of my time because of their contradictory policy regarding international orders. I wrote them stating my frustration and I didn't consider their reply the least bit satisfactory as they simply said that not all items qualified for Canadian-and international-delivery.If this is the case they should put some kind of disclaimer right next to the Canadian flag on their home and ordering pages.It would be so simple for them to rectify this by just placing a maple leaf icon etc. next to the items that qualified for Canadian shipping or placing an asterisk next to items that were exempt from Canadian shipping.I have ordered some pretty pricey things from U.S. music stores with no problem but this has turned me off of M.F. and their associate companies and I won't be doing any ordering from any of them supposing they start selling Custom Shop Strats for $100 and I wouldn't go into any of their stores when visiting the U.S. If Canadian money isn't good enough for them through mail order(unless I buy an upmarket amp,guitar etc.) then they won't be getting any of my Canadian money when I visit the U.S.

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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:50 am
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Maybe a phone call would have more clout. Just tell them what you wrote here and escalate it to the top.

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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:26 am
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They aren't really much of a friend to us, either.

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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 1:43 pm
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Apparently not, and that's a sad thing. With a single exception, I've always had good service from Musician's Friend. I'm willing to bet that Fender has some very specific international distribution contracts over which Musician's Friend simply cannot trespass against, as I'm sure they would be more than happy to sell you anything you want.

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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:02 pm
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linnin wrote:
Apparently not, and that's a sad thing. With a single exception, I've always had good service from Musician's Friend. I'm willing to bet that Fender has some very specific international distribution contracts over which Musician's Friend simply cannot trespass against, as I'm sure they would be more than happy to sell you anything you want.



+1

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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:08 pm
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linnin wrote:
I'm willing to bet that Fender has some very specific international distribution contracts over which Musician's Friend simply cannot trespass against, as I'm sure they would be more than happy to sell you anything you want.

Thy do. It's why the rest of is aren't able to take advantage of the ridiculously low prices the US gets on guitars.

They'd say it was to 'look after' local distributors. But it's about protecting massive margins, given they sell at a wholesale that makes local retailers unable to compete. Who really wants to pay $2k for a Am Std?


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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 1:56 am
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It's not just MF. Sweetwater, Guitar Centre & The online Fender store doesn't ship nor sell Fender & certain other brands to my country either, which kinda sucks. I enquired about this sometime ago but was told to 'see your local retailer..'. Thing is, my local music shop has a bunch of shirts that look like they have been sitting on their rack for years. I know that they wouldn't have what I was after and I didn't want to go through two middlemen either. If they would allow it, I'd snap up a brand new case straight away.

I know that if Fender made prices the same price for all countries, like Oakley eyewear has for example- they would make a lot of people in NZ and Australia happy. But they wouldn't want to take the grossly inflated profits from our local stores away then, wouldn't they..

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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 2:11 am
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Blertles wrote:
I know that if Fender made prices the same price for all countries, like Oakley eyewear has for example- they would make a lot of people in NZ and Australia happy. But they wouldn't want to take the grossly inflated profits from our local stores away then, wouldn't they..

Pretty sure Oakley ramps up 50% here too.

Retailers aren't creaming most of the profit here, that's done at wholesale. My local dealer couldn't shift off $499 for a new SCx2 (RRP $650). I tried a couple of others, same story. Guess what? No sale.

Fro guitars, you don't even know the RRP, because they don't provide one. I asked my Fender rep. He said, see your dealer. Meaning they'll charge as much as people will pay.

I don't mind paying a small premium for the smaller market here and being able to play guitars too (I'm a lefty but that's another guitar problem), but I'll not pay $1000 for a MIM. Drop your prices Fender, stop being greedy and you'll sell more.


Last edited by Drubbing on Wed May 15, 2013 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 6:55 am
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Drubbing wrote:
Drop your prices Fender, stop being greedy and you'll sell more.

Hey, Drub, do import duties play any part at all in the pricing? I'm asking because I don't know, but foreign-made goods are usually more expensive than ones manufactured domestically. I feel your pain here, all the way from Perth!

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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:11 am
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rudorama wrote:
Drubbing wrote:
Drop your prices Fender, stop being greedy and you'll sell more.

Hey, Drub, do import duties play any part at all in the pricing? I'm asking because I don't know, but foreign-made goods are usually more expensive than ones manufactured domestically. I feel your pain here, all the way from Perth!


I'm sure there are some, but they couldn't play much part in a 100% mark up, and we have a trade agreement with the US, which makes it cheaper for them to export here. I can buy a <$1000 guitar from overseas and pay no import or local taxes at all. Even if shipping costs $200, most people are still way ahead on local RRP. And many do it.

Fender export US guitars all over the world, and there's few, if any places that cost as much here. If retailers were making most of the margin, they'd drop their prices to compete, but they can't.


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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 8:55 am
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I don't know about Canada, but in the USA every single item at musicians friend is 15% off, no tax, free shipping. All one has to do is call them and ask them to apply the 15% discount and they will do it. Even for Fenders. Doesn't matter if it's on the "exluded" list for whatever 15% sale they are claiming to have on the front page of the website.

Then you get a perfect, brand new product, never out of the box since it left the factory, and if there's a problem, 45 days to return, no questions asked, no hassle.

I got my 2011 American Standard Strat for $765, no tax, free shipping. It was marked down to $899 during the $100 off program 2 Decembers ago (solid colors were still regularly only $999 then), and then they even gave me 15% off of that already reduced price, and they gave me a free original crybaby pedal!!! They were running that program (get a free crybaby pedal if you buy an american fender) two Decembers ago and still gave me the pedal after essentially discounting the guitar $235.00.

I have also bought other Fender guitars and amps from them and it's always 15% off, no tax, free shipping.

No I don't work for them. I'm just a satisfied customer.


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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:15 am
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Hi Guitslinger.
...Too many products in stock, this is bound to happen.
I wonder how many staff work the page, in order to be profitable.
All in all I can´t help but be thankful for online retail.

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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 3:11 pm
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Drubbing wrote:
Retailers aren't creaming most of the profit here, that's done at wholesale. My local dealer couldn't shift off $499 for a new SCx2 (RRP $650). I tried a couple of others, same story. Guess what? No sale.

Fro guitars, you don't even know the RRP, because they don't provide one. I asked my Fender rep. He said, see your dealer. Meaning they'll charge as much as people will pay.

I don't mind paying a small premium for the smaller market here and being able to play guitars too (I'm a lefty but that's another guitar problem), but I'll not pay $1000 for a MIM. Drop your prices Fender, stop being greedy and you'll sell more.

You could not be more wrong...it's not greed on the part of Fender creating the problem.

Fender doesn't charge the premiums for exporting their guitars--it's the import charges/tariffs (if there are any), the shipping, the smaller market the foreign buyer is living in, the "middle man" and retailer both trying to make a profit, and just the general economy that makes that MIM Lefty guitar cost $1000 (I don't know what that is in US dollars, but I'm going to assume it's somewhat costly).

IF Fender were to drop their prices, one of three scenarios would happen (or a combination of the three):

(1) the customer would most likely not see any major savings; the import tariff, if any, would be less (because they're usually based on a percentage of the selling price of the product), but no one else in the equation--the shipper, the middle man, the retailer--would take less of a cut...in fact, since they know the price the market will allow is $1000, they would keep the price at that point and make even more profit. Therefore, the only savings that could conceivably happen is the percentage of the import tariff itself.

(2) Fender would become less elite, less desirable, and thus less valuable, which means you wouldn't care to play it, which means fewer people would buy them, which means they would go out of business.
Case in point: CF Martin makes some very good acoustic guitars, some of the best in the business...but most Martins aren't worth the price difference between themselves and "lesser" acoustic guitar manufacturers/companies. The prestige and beauty of the brand is something that is maintained by a few cosmetic improvements, the perceived value of an instrument made by a storied company, and the higher cost.

The high cost of a Martin keeps up the mystique and perceived value of the company (This is also true of a US-made Gibson).

Fender has always been the "working man's" guitar (in a cost-comparison to Gibson and Martin), but they've never undercut themselves so much that there's a lower perceived value...if Fender started undercutting themselves, they would end up being the Wal-Mart of guitar.

(3) Quality would decrease, because when you cut cost, you're going to have to cut costs of materials, labor, craftsmanship or options (including the number of lefties produced).

So Fender (and what you perceive as "greed") isn't the problem, and cutting costs (although initially attractive) will not fix your dilemma.

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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:56 pm
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Screamin' Armadillo wrote:
You could not be more wrong...it's not greed on the part of Fender creating the problem.

Fender doesn't charge the premiums for exporting their guitars--it's the import charges/tariffs (if there are any), the shipping, the smaller market the foreign buyer is living in, the "middle man" and retailer both trying to make a profit, and just the general economy that makes that MIM Lefty guitar cost $1000 (I don't know what that is in US dollars, but I'm going to assume it's somewhat costly).

I

You couldn't be any less informed, you clearly know nothing of our tariff situation, yet your post hinges on nothing but assumptions all the same.

I stated that Aus has a trade agreement with the US. Those products get import tax breaks that others don't. For a single importer, joe average buying for themselves, the $1000 local tax threshold is also waived, if the item is imported from the US.

There is no middle man. Fender has Aus operations and is the importer and wholesaler. Yes, we have a smaller market, and I'd be happy to pay a premium to reflect that, most buyers would. 100% is not a real world reflection, it's price gouging.

Your 2) point make no sense. Fender is either the guitar for the working man as you state later, or valuable and elite. Make your mind up. Here, its prices dictate the 'working man' can't afford $2000+ for an AM Std.

All guitar makers see Aus as a cash cow, with a strong economy, and people with high disposable income. IiTunes do the same. They charge a premium for all their product, and in their case, there is no more extra cost to supply it anywhere in the world.

What is REALLY hurting Fender here is Oz gearheads - the ones who buy lots of guitars - are buying from OS, using freight forwarders or sources that will ship. Fender are still selling guitars from elsewhere, but at a lower profit than they could get here, if it were realistic. So perhaps Fender are happy with low volume, high profit. That's the very definition of elitist.


Last edited by Drubbing on Wed May 15, 2013 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: M.F. no friend to potential international customers
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 5:03 pm
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Screamin' Armadillo wrote:
Drubbing wrote:
Retailers aren't creaming most of the profit here, that's done at wholesale. My local dealer couldn't shift off $499 for a new SCx2 (RRP $650). I tried a couple of others, same story. Guess what? No sale.

Fro guitars, you don't even know the RRP, because they don't provide one. I asked my Fender rep. He said, see your dealer. Meaning they'll charge as much as people will pay.

I don't mind paying a small premium for the smaller market here and being able to play guitars too (I'm a lefty but that's another guitar problem), but I'll not pay $1000 for a MIM. Drop your prices Fender, stop being greedy and you'll sell more.

You could not be more wrong...it's not greed on the part of Fender creating the problem.

Fender doesn't charge the premiums for exporting their guitars--it's the import charges/tariffs (if there are any), the shipping, the smaller market the foreign buyer is living in, the "middle man" and retailer both trying to make a profit, and just the general economy that makes that MIM Lefty guitar cost $1000 (I don't know what that is in US dollars, but I'm going to assume it's somewhat costly).

IF Fender were to drop their prices, one of three scenarios would happen (or a combination of the three):

(1) the customer would most likely not see any major savings; the import tariff, if any, would be less (because they're usually based on a percentage of the selling price of the product), but no one else in the equation--the shipper, the middle man, the retailer--would take less of a cut...in fact, since they know the price the market will allow is $1000, they would keep the price at that point and make even more profit. Therefore, the only savings that could conceivably happen is the percentage of the import tariff itself.

(2) Fender would become less elite, less desirable, and thus less valuable, which means you wouldn't care to play it, which means fewer people would buy them, which means they would go out of business.
Case in point: CF Martin makes some very good acoustic guitars, some of the best in the business...but most Martins aren't worth the price difference between themselves and "lesser" acoustic guitar manufacturers/companies. The prestige and beauty of the brand is something that is maintained by a few cosmetic improvements, the perceived value of an instrument made by a storied company, and the higher cost.

The high cost of a Martin keeps up the mystique and perceived value of the company (This is also true of a US-made Gibson).

Fender has always been the "working man's" guitar (in a cost-comparison to Gibson and Martin), but they've never undercut themselves so much that there's a lower perceived value...if Fender started undercutting themselves, they would end up being the Wal-Mart of guitar.

(3) Quality would decrease, because when you cut cost, you're going to have to cut costs of materials, labor, craftsmanship or options (including the number of lefties produced).

So Fender (and what you perceive as "greed") isn't the problem, and cutting costs (although initially attractive) will not fix your dilemma.


+1 SA!
My working man´s guitar is
priced right, has superior design,
amazing craftmanship and sounds like nothing else.
Best money I ever spent. Love this company.

Drubbing, here is my experience hoping it will add to the picture,
I live in Mexico. The free trade agreement, American products are
supposed to be exempt from tariffs. Instead, the creeps at customs down here
made me pay $700 dollars in duties to bring in a $3600 Fender which I was able
to declare for $2500. That´s the world man. If trade is trying to gauge Australia,
informed Austalian consumers will boycott. For my part, the money was well spent.

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