Yeah, then the a lot of the songs from the 60's and early 70's with their chants aren't music either then...get real. It's still music, still takes talent to mc, the writing is different. There are plenty of sexually charged rock music out there too.

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a lot of songs from the early 60s and 70s where bad, why is everyone here so emotional about rap?
"sexually charged rock"???? wtf is that?

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I got nothing.

Isn't it nice that Gravity Jim claims to know my intent as the OP? This thread isn't a "dump all your frustrations and tell what you hate" thread that eat up too much space on the Internet." as our jolly pal Gravity Jim assumes. Talk about getting your frustrations out, Jimbo. Every post you make on here is either about putting someone eles opinion down or posting just to cause conflict. You come across like an angry old man, which I have a feeling you are. But think what you like, I'm sure you will anyway...

i so agree with you country music sucks my mom and dad listen to it all the time while im in my room blasting metalica

Isn't it nice that Gravity Jim claims to know my intent as the OP? This thread isn't a "dump all your frustrations and tell what you hate" thread that eat up too much space on the Internet." as our jolly pal Gravity Jim assumes. Talk about getting your frustrations out, Jimbo. Every post you make on here is either about putting someone eles opinion down or posting just to cause conflict. You come across like an angry old man, which I have a feeling you are. But think what you like, I'm sure you will anyway...

In your defense, I never thought this was a flaming thread and I've never known you to feed fires for fun. Some people simply get pissed at certan forms of music. I don't think it's a waste of space to point that out or discuss it. And yes, at times Jim does come across as believing he's superior to many here.

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"is that a real poncho...i mean
Is that a mexican poncho
Or is that a sears poncho?
Hmmm...no foolin ...." FZ

Rap makes we want to barf, beat someone up then eat the barf shave my head and barf again, i hate it!

Thanks, Cryingstrat, I appreciate it. You're right, I didn't expect this thread to become such a heated topic.

There's a simple way to determine wheter or not something is Music or Not. Are they playing notes in there somewhere? If the aswerer is "Yes", it's Music. If the Aswerer is "No" it's Poetry, and Poetry is as fine of an Art as music is, anyday

Rap is poetry with a Beat, unless you put a Bass line to it, then it's Music. Hip-Hop is Music. Rap, May or May Not be Music.

I've always likened the early Hardcore street rappers of the '80s to the Beatnicks of the '50's.

For example;

Beat poetry

'snap' 'snap' 'snap'
little birdie on my window sill
'snap; 'snap' 'snap'
no birdseed for you today
'snap' 'snap' snap'
cool man, cool

Rap

'BHOO' 'uh' 'HAW' 'uh 'BHOO' 'uh' HAW
S'up punk @%$ bird, On da window shelf
I ain't got enough, to feed myself
'BHOO' 'uh 'HAW' 'uh' BHOO' 'uh' 'HAW"

It's all in the delivery

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"Persistence Is The Father Of Invention"
-Crazy Old Man In Training

Right on man!!!

And it all can trace it's roots to those Scat vocals that came about in the early 19teens and even earlier......

From Wikipedia:
Rapping hip hop music can be traced back in many ways to its African roots. Centuries before the United States existed, the griots of West Africa were delivering stories rhythmically, over drums and sparse instrumentation. Because of the time that has passed since the griots of old, the connections between rap and the African griots are widely established, but not clear-cut. However, such connections have been acknowledged by rappers, modern day "griots", spoken word artists, mainstream news sources, and academics.

Everything comes from somewhere else.

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"is that a real poncho...i mean
Is that a mexican poncho
Or is that a sears poncho?
Hmmm...no foolin ...." FZ

What about the sampling of other peoples music in a lot of modern rap? You can't count them as "playing" the music, if all they do is sample it from someone else having played it.

How would you define that?

You've hit upon the Grey Area. When the Beastie Boys sampled Zeppelin, I was appalled, But Jimmy Page was flattered, and Robert Plant was inspired to sample himself in "Tall Cool One". So I guess time will have to tell. But I'll say that a sampler has to know what he's doing, musically.

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"Persistence Is The Father Of Invention"
-Crazy Old Man In Training

That has been hard to define. I definately wouldn't call samplers musicians. To me a musician plays a musical instrument. A sampler is more like a film editor. He/she takes an already produced product and arranges it in a manner pleasing to him and hopefully others. That does require artistic skill, but it isn't creating music. It's working with already created music and changing the beat/adding poetry. I'd have to call it a valid art form.

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"is that a real poncho...i mean
Is that a mexican poncho
Or is that a sears poncho?
Hmmm...no foolin ...." FZ

Film Editing, That's a good analogy.

_________________
"Persistence Is The Father Of Invention"
-Crazy Old Man In Training