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Post subject: Re: question about serial numbers
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:14 am
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Doesn't have to be, but I wouldn't buy one without it. The format of the serial number can tell you things about the instrument (County of Origin, when made...)

If you can "Ask a Question" do so and get the number, of maybe contact the seller.

HTH

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Post subject: Re: question about serial numbers
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:04 pm
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radioamp wrote:
I have asked the seller a question about the serial number, and got no response.

Also asked for more pictures because there is only 5 in the ad, and go no response.

Very suspicious ad


If at all suspicious, simply don't buy !!

The one thing the World is not short of are genuine used Fender Guitars !

One concern I would have if the seller won't disclose the ser.# would be possible Stolen Goods. Trying to sell a 'Hot' Fender on ebay and including the serial # would be like a Bank Robber dropping his wallet on the Getaway.

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: question about serial numbers
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:47 pm
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radioamp wrote:
Should one report this item if is indeed a "Hot" Fender


Probably... but you'd need the serial # and access to an up-to-date database w/ reported Fenders to know whether it is stolen or not.

A seller's reluctance to share it doesn't automatically make it stolen, some may have other reasons.

Some think that it's info which shouldn't be shared, like an auto VIN #. There's little need for this as there are numerous serial # decoders out there which will give a forger acecess to 'real' serial #s.

Some may want to try and misrepresent the guitar to a more desireable country of origin, year of manufacture, etc. without actually stating such... carefully worded ads which could mislead. The jig would be up with an astute buyer armed with the serial #.

Also, price can be a clue as well. Most Fender guitars fall into certain price categories, reflecting what they are. If you see one at a significantly lower price, without other evidence to support it, that should raise a Red Flag warranting further investigation. If it seems to good to be true, it most often is.

But, all this stuff can make you crazy. Best advice is to simply go to reputable dealer to buy. That way, you can be fairly certain you're getting the original article.

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: question about serial numbers
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:05 pm
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All you really need is the serial number prefix to determine country of origin. If he won't provide at least that I would pass.


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Post subject: Re: question about serial numbers
Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:01 am
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And the number of digits.

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Post subject: Re: question about serial numbers
Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:24 pm
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It certainly would be of benefit, not only to you, but the rest of us, like you, if the website knew you had suspicions about the integrity of the seller, and that the suggestion came from members of the Fender Lounge Forums. If not already, the seller should know that 'Big Fender' :lol: is watching :idea: :wink:

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Post subject: Re: question about serial numbers
Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:27 pm
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I can understand why people might not want to disclose the entire serial number but knowing it's something like E539XXX would be enough to date the guitar. If the seller won't tell you the letter (or letters) and the first three digits then I'd assume they've got something to hide.

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Post subject: Re: question about serial numbers
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:33 am
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radioamp wrote:
Can I post a link to a suspicious listing here, and have the guru's here let me know if it is a fake?

There is only 5 photos, and a scratched out serial number. The model is spelled wrong in the description.

Soit'nly...it is often done. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: question about serial numbers
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:00 am
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How can we possibly know if it is a "hot" Fender? The main reason people safeguard serials is to keep someone else from reporting the serial as stolen by filing a false larceny report in order to make a fraudulent insurance claim. Unless the person possessing it has a sales receipt for that instrument they could actually be in trouble for possessing it if the serial is checked by police and found to be entered as a stolen item!

If I was selling one I would expect giving a partial serial when selling it with the last several digits represented as "XXXX" to be sufficient and that is all you will get out of me. Also not revealing the entire serial prevents people from forging that serial onto a fake instrument.

Some eBay sellers just do not respond to questions. I think the serial is probably obscured on the photos but is not "scratched out" on the actual instrument itself. If it was scratched out on the instrument itself that is a warning flag for sure and you should not deal with them. However, I would NOT suspect it to be an entered stolen item just because the seller refuses to share the entire serial. I wouldn't give you the full serials off my instruments either.

The only way to know for sure if it is entered as stolen is to run the full serial through the law enforcement database maintained for all stolen articles in your country. In the USA that database is called the ARTICLES HOTFILE maintained by NCIC, which is administered by the US Dept of Justice. This is a nationwide database used by all law enforcement in the USA. So an instrument entered as stolen in Virginia will show as stolen if it is checked in California or any other state nationwide. If it returns as a stolen article it would in all likelihood be seized, at least temporarily, and contact made with the agency that entered it stolen. If everything checks out and you can not prove true ownership it likely will be returned to the entering agency who will then return it to the person who reported it stolen and you could be looking at some legal entanglements.

Anytime you want an instrument serial checked just contact the local police or Sheriff's office using their ROUTINE contact phone number during regular office hours (9-5 Mon-Fri) and request a stolen article serial check. Each agency will handle this according to their department's policy on stolen article inquiries. They usually will want to see the item in person. Our policy is to send an officer and have the officer request the NCIC check with the property in hand.

Just because the serial is not entered in the NCIC Stolen Articles Hotfile does not mean it is not stolen for a couple of reasons. First, stolen articles as a rule are only entered for a limited period of time in the national Hotfile database. Second, not everyone can give police the serial numbers of their stolen gear and in an event where there are no serials available the gear can not be entered as stolen in the NCIC Stolen Articles Hotfile at all.

In the USA articles including guitars, amps and other serialized items like that are only entered for one year plus the month of entry. So if you reported a guitar stolen today on May 1, 2013, it would clear out of the Stolen Articles Hotfile on June 1, 2014 and after that the serial would check clean, even though the instrument in fact at one time was entered as stolen. Guns are different and have no time limitation on NCIC Hotfile entry duration.

Many people simply do not keep a record of the serial numbers on their valuable serialized possessions. Therefore they don't have the serial to give police so their items never get entered as stolen articles. These people without serials have no chance of ever getting their stuff back, even if located by police with a truck load of other items that were entered as stolen articles. This is partly why there are police auctions of unclaimed recovered items. I urge everyone to learn how to protect your gear to the fullest and follow the instructions on this page on my website:
http://brotherdave.com/add_protectyourgear.htm

I may not always know what I'm talking about, but I am actually certified on this topic and I use NCIC daily at my straight job for over 19 years and for about 16 years I've been the NCIC Terminal Agency Coordinator for the county where I live. That sort of makes me qualified.


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Post subject: Re: question about serial numbers
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:52 am
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There's another valuable contribution to add to our archives. Being asked to shell out $3K US for this product should entitle you to full disclosure. Failing that, and based upon what Dave has offered, I suppose your choice is to roll the dice or walk. We have a Firestorm guitar history in these Forums we'd like to forget about and, for all we know, that seller is our spammer.

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Post subject: Re: question about serial numbers
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:33 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
There's another valuable contribution to add to our archives. Being asked to shell out $3K US for this product should entitle you to full disclosure. Failing that, and based upon what Dave has offered, I suppose your choice is to roll the dice or walk. We have a Firestorm guitar history in these Forums we'd like to forget about and, for all we know, that seller is our spammer.

Hey Doc, in this case the man asking the initial question is the spammer.... :wink:

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Post subject: Re: question about serial numbers
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:26 am
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link took me to the wrong auction presumably

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Post subject: Re: question about serial numbers
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:55 am
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[quote="Xhefri] Hey Doc, in this case the man asking the initial question is the spammer.... :wink:[/quote]
Ah!! Another charter member of the 'Need To Get A Life Club'. We don't need to see his identification. Time to move on.

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