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Post subject: any cowsills fans out there?
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:00 am
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ok- you can stop laughing now....

i finally watched "family band" the cowsills story. interesting to watch, even if you are not a fan of their music. over-controlling father sets up family band, controlling every aspect of their career. many ups and downs, mom is put in the band, and lots of family problems. it's a wonder they lasted as long as they did.

in some ways it reminds me of the beach boys and murray wilson. they finally stood up to him,and fired him.

we used to hate to practice at a bandmate of mine's house back in the 60's. his dad would listen, and throw his 2 cents in. never complained about us, but constantly yelled at his son, even throwing things at him when he made a mistake. needless to say, we didn't practice there very often.

makes me wonder how many stories like this are out there


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Post subject: Re: any cowsills fans out there?
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:47 am
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I'm not laughing...I had the 45 of "The Rain, The Park & Other Things" (which nobody ever gets the title right) and it's on my mp3 player today. A quick Wikipedia check reminded me that they sang the theme from Love American Style, which makes them sixties tv icons.

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Post subject: Re: any cowsills fans out there?
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:10 am
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I always liked their cover of the song 'Hair'. :oops:


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Post subject: Re: any cowsills fans out there?
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:43 pm
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"INDIAN LAKE" was my favorite Cowsills song. Great bassline!

Before the "GOT MILK" days of the American Dairy Association the Cowsills were their corporate face.

On a sad note about the Cowsills. While their association with Newport, RI as their "hometown" is well known, it is a little known fact that both Barry Cowsill and his sister Susan along with Susan's husband were all living in New Orleans when Hurricane Katrina struck on August 29, 2005. Susan fled New Orleans with her husband in advance of the storm, but they lost just about everything not taken with them including some historic instruments. Barry decided he would stay behind to "watch after things" in New Orleans. He was listed as missing for months after the storm. A badly decomposed body recovered from the Chartres Street Wharf in New Orleans nearly 4 fulll months after the storm on December 28, 2005 was positively identified on January 4, 2006, as Barry Cowsill. He apparently had documents in his pants pocket that belonged to Barry but the body had to be matched via DNA for a positive ID and that took a few days. The coroner's cause of death was probable drowning and foul play was not suspected. He apparently had died in the serious flooding of Katrina on August 29th or 30th, was taken out with the tide and then returned with a later tide shortly before his body was recovered. Susan still lives in New Orleans.

On an upbeat note, Susan, John, Bob and Paul Cowsill have been touring recently as "The Cowsills" while each also has independent careers in and out of music. Susan has been the most musically successful of the surviving Cowsills. Prior to his death Bill Cowsill did well as a solo act and studio player/writer/producer. The Cowsills actually may show up near you at some point and Susan with her own band plays a lot around New Orleans and Newport. Her latest album has gotten rave reviews by musicians and critics alike, especially around the South. A Cowsills fan club is still going strong and keeps its members up to date on all of the latest Cowsill happenings, including all of the many solo ventures. The latest Cowsills studio project is a recently completed new track Bob wrote called "Is It Any Wonder" which all four cut for inclusion withe the usual 60's/70's hits on a Cowsills compilation CD called "Yellow Pills Volume I." There is still an active COWSILLS FAN CLUB! To get information here's the address to write snail mail:
THE COWSILLS FAN CLUB
P.O. BOX 83
LEXINGTON, MS 39095

TOTALLY USELESS COWSILLS TRIVIA:
1. The Cowsills were the basis for the TV program "THE PARTRIDGE FAMILY." Initially it was going to be "THE COWSILL FAMILY." However immediately after Shirley Jones was signed to replace Barbara (Mother) on the TV show the rest of the Cowsill family bowed out even though they claim to have had firm offers. The producer of the TV show later stated that he had considered using them but cut the younger Cowsills because they didn't have acting experience. Who do you trust on that? There's no doubt the Partridge Family tracks used the same layered harmony stylings as Cowsills tracks but were done on the west coast using "The Wrecking Crew" for instrumentation and the Ron Hicklin Singers with David Cassidy doing some lead vocals instead of the NYC musicians and studios used by the Cowsills.
2. Susan Cowsill was 9 years old when "The Rain, The Park And Other Things" hit making her the youngest American credited with a top 10 hit. That record still stands so far as I can tell. (Michael Jackson was 11 when the Jackson 5's first single, "I Want You Back" hit.)
3. Artie Kornfeld who was their studio producer early on, would later be one of the producers of WOODSTOCK and is actually most commonly remembered as "The Father Of Woodstock" instead of being one of the most prolific and successful studio producers of the 1960's and 70's. I think he gave even Brian Wilson a run for the money at the console. His output was certainly much larger. Listening to his work now you can tell he was truly gifted at the console.
4. Barry switched to bass from guitar early in the going and first went with a Hofner bass because he was small, but later switched when he grew up enough to a full sized Fender Jazz Bass and owned several of them. Susan has now taken up bass favoring a 70's Fender Jazz similar to the ones Barry had used after the early Hofner. She actually plays quite a variety of instruments including Zydeco percussion instruments and is adept at them all.
5. Bill Cowsill died in Canada on the very day that Barry Cowsill's memorial service was held in the Cowsill family hometown of Newport on February 18, 2006.
6. Bill Cowsill was once on the short list of possible performance replacement players/singers for Brian Wilson who famously didn't want to play in public with the Beach Boys at the time. Meetings with Brian and Mike Love took place but for whatever reasons Bill Cowsill didn't join the Beach Boys. The job went instead to Daryl Dragon who wasn't a Beach Boy for very long, leaving with then Beach Boys touring female backup singer Toni Tennille to form "The Captain & Tennille." (I still think that yacht captain outfit was silly.)

THE COWSILLS at a live date shortly after their first NYC sessions when Susan had joined her mom and older brothers on stage:
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Post subject: Re: any cowsills fans out there?
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:44 am
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brotherdave, thanks for the update. if they are in my area, i may check them out.


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Post subject: Re: any cowsills fans out there?
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:49 am
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I'm not laughing. I wasn't 'old enough' to be able to pose the question "What are cowsills"?? "Something cows sit on?" :oops:

BTW: I hereby knight Brother Dave as our official Forum Retrospectivist. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: any cowsills fans out there?
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:10 am
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No, if you don't want me to laugh then I won't. Glad that you enjoyed the cowsills story. Back in the day you couldn't pay me to listen to that canned puffery. I agree there are probably a lot of interesting stories about the music business that the public has not heard or seen.

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Post subject: Re: any cowsills fans out there?
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:25 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
I'm not laughing. I wasn't 'old enough' to be able to pose the question "What are cowsills"?? "Something cows sit on?" :oops:

BTW: I hereby knight Brother Dave as our official Forum Retrospectivist. :lol:


Doing 34 yrs in top-40 radio, you pickup a few things. Used some info from Susan's site. She's really an amazing musician and I've been listening to her newer stuff. Very mature and cooking tunes.

When you go back and listen to the Cowsills 67-72 stuff now, keep in mind when and where it was done, over Manny's Music in 1966/67. That is where Phil Ramone put A & R Recording when it first opened. The studio later moved to a snazzier space on 7th Av with new gear. Lots of track bounces were surely required to get that multi-layered finished product with the original 8 track setup. No computerized mixdown back then, it was manual. There is something about the way a vintage console sounded under the hand of Artie Kornfeld too. I favor Kornfeld over Spector as I think his output sounds cleaner and truer to life. Pop and rock are really two different things. Artie Kornfeld excelled at both. Phil Ramone's A&R studio in New York is very storied and so many famous recordings were made there that you can't list them all. Today Ramone's stake in the A&R Recording is in his estate since he passed away last month and the other owners include music/film luminaries Glen Frey of the Eagles and NY TV/Film producer Brooks Arthur. The "A" in A&R was Jack Arnold who was a movie and TV producer that invested money initially while Phil Ramone ran the studio. Ramone used the money A&R made him to design and build several other studios. While at the forefront of digital considered to be the "Father of the CD," Ramone's A&R analog sound was really something very, very special. Elton John, Allman Bros, Billy Joel, Paul Simon, Chicago....so many great analog recordings made there it is easily equal to Sound City but has a history that goes back further. Strings sounded universally amazing at A & R with a clarity that surpassed Sound City. Sound City however had an edge with richer percussive intensity.


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Post subject: Re: any cowsills fans out there?
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:34 am
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yeah they were good inthere day . wasnt a big fan even though they were local.. but they were good . back then and even now therewas so much talent here that i had other intrests. they were one of the few bands that got somewhere though.


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Post subject: Re: any cowsills fans out there?
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:36 pm
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I only noticed this thread now-thanks for posting it Brothedave,I often wondered what paths they all took after they faded from popularity.Even though some of the music could be classed as "shmaltzy",I really did like "The Rain,The Park and Other Things"-their harmonies were spot on and it was just such a fitting song for the Flower Power movement that was in full swing at that time.One of them-Bob I believe-went on to form a country act with some other well known musicians,for some reason I think that one of the Byrds members was involved but Bob was the main songwriter.I was told that he had written several popular songs that other artists had hits with.Do you have any of the lowdown on this?

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Post subject: Re: any cowsills fans out there?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:07 pm
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Back in 69, we went to the local high school where the Cowsills were playing. The concert was almost snowed out. At the time none of my friends listened to their music, myself included. Well, they but on a great show and I have listened to their music throughout the years. Just proves live music is the best.
Kenny V


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Post subject: Re: any cowsills fans out there?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:07 pm
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guitslinger wrote:
I only noticed this thread now-thanks for posting it Brothedave,I often wondered what paths they all took after they faded from popularity.Even though some of the music could be classed as "shmaltzy",I really did like "The Rain,The Park and Other Things"-their harmonies were spot on and it was just such a fitting song for the Flower Power movement that was in full swing at that time.One of them-Bob I believe-went on to form a country act with some other well known musicians,for some reason I think that one of the Byrds members was involved but Bob was the main songwriter.I was told that he had written several popular songs that other artists had hits with.Do you have any of the lowdown on this?


It was actually Artie Kornfeld who wrote "The Rain, The Park And Other Things" in addition to producing it (and financing the sessions at A&R.) In retrospect, it is about as much an Artie Kornfeld record as it is a Cowsills record.

Bob and Bill (sometimes called "Billy") were the "original" Cowsills working as a duo till the other siblings and mom came aboard. The two wrote the Cowsills original songs until Bill was booted for refusing to quit smoking pot in 1969. Many of the Cowsills 60's tracks were actually written by other songwriters. About 1971 MGM booted the Cowsills and by 1972 the act went bankrupt with no way to keep it going.

It was Bill who went alternative country rock in Canada, not Bob.

Since the Cowsills stopped touring in '72 the bulk of Bob's time has been spent in the health care information technology software field. He got onto the development team for a software system that has been in use in various updated forms in hospital emergency rooms for decades all over the western world. Bob is still in the same software business and last I heard was still a road-warrior traveling around to install it and train people on how to both operate and maintain it. He also still performs and records with the Cowsills, and produced their reunion album "Global" which was released in 1998. Bob and his wife Mary Jo wrote every song on it. Mary Jo is now a Cowsill too. It was the Cowsills first new album since the band's dismissal from MGM and the band's 1972 bankruptcy.

When "GLOBAL" came out and failed to chart or get airplay, it was not because it lacked quality songs. Critics who wrote about it unanimously praised it as a surprisingly good album. I've never heard a bad review on it. Some even today point to one track called "Is It Any Wonder" as one of the greatest pop works of the 1990's. I preferred the track called "Under The Gun" myself. The problem with "GLOBAL" was distribution as the label was a tiny Indy label called Robin Records started by...Bob Cowsill merely to sell the Cowsills CD's online via a website. So in essence they are like a self-published author trying to sell his books. It is hard to do that and get on any charts. But they did sort of pioneer the Indy music sold online thing before I-Tunes or Amazon were around. The tracks today are now available on I-Tunes and other electronic delivery systems. Not many people have actually heard a single track from "Global", but it is still a great record and I'd put it up against about anything else in the pop genre in the 90's. There are lots of albums that are really good but don't make it big because they lack of major label distribution and here's one frightfully good album that most people never heard anything about. They used at least 4 different major LA area studios to get it finished.

I'm unaware of anyone else covering a Bob and Mary Jo Cowsill penned tune besides Susan. But someone certainly should be covering them as a few of them are quite good. I'm also unaware of anyone covering a Bill Cowsill tune either. It may have happened, but I'm not aware of any huge hits at all.

The only connection I know about between the Cowsills and the Byrds is like a "third cousin twice-removed." Graham Nash was in Crosby, Stills and Nash with David Crosby who was an original member of the Byrds. The Cowsills recorded a song co-written by Graham Nash called "Who Can Teach a Songbird How to Sing" included on the "We Can Fly" album. Also they recorded a David Gates tune so I guess you could say they are even more closely tied directly to Bread than the Byrds. The "We Can Fly" single did OK but the album tanked.

So far as major touring groups are concerned you could say that the Beach Boys are more closely associated with the Cowsills than any other major touring act since John Cowsill is often seen drumming for the Beach Boys on tour since about 2007 and Bill was also recruited in the early 70's to sub for reclusive Brian Wilson on tour dates with the band. While the Beach Boys seem to be a good fit for John it didn't work for Bill.

Bill moved to Canada in the 1980's and did some solo things, some production for others and played in a few bands that went nowhere until he wound up in a country rock project called The Blue Shadows which actually made two albums for SONY in the early 90's. Their debut album was a blistering critical and commercial success coming from out of nowhere and got lots of airplay in Canada, but the follow up album failed to kick it up a notch and shortly after the second album bombed in sales Sony booted them and the Blue Shadows broke up. So far as I know, nobody in the Blue Shadows had played with the Byrds or anyone else in the USA. They were all Canadian except Bill Cowsill. Bill Cowsill fronted The Blue Shadows and the second most famous member was Jeffrey Hatcher who'd been knocking around in Canada for a while with different bands for a while. After The Blue Shadows collapse Bill wanted into another project but his drug use had worsened to the point that an intervention by fellow musicians came about around 1997. He did get off drugs and remained clean after that starting another country rock band up late in his life.

The Cowsills do for sure have other connections to famous and semi-famous players and projects. 1. Guitar legend Waddy Wachtel (Paul, Bill & Barry all three worked in the short-lived Bridey Murphy band project with him in the mid 70's.) 2. The Psycho Sisters (the "sisters" are Susan and former Bangles member Vicki Peterson in an on again/off again duo act.) 3. The Continental Drifters (Susan toured along with frequent vocal partner Vicki Peterson.) 4. Dwight Twilley (again Susan toured.) 5. Tommy Tutone (John recorded and toured with the "867-5309/Jenny" group). 6. The Susan Cowsill Band (a regional favorite playing frequently in and around their home base of New Orleans.)

I've heard a Psycho Sisters album has been in production for about the past year and I keep waiting for it to finally come out. Susan and Vicki Peterson sing so well together that they really do sound like sisters. If you've never seen them do the Psycho Sisters thing, trust me it is spellbinding and downright magical the way their voices interplay. Whether or not The Psycho Sisters album project comes to fruition on a major label, it would be premature to ever count Susan Cowsill out until you read her obit.


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Post subject: Re: any cowsills fans out there?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:56 pm
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brotherdave wrote:
ZZDoc wrote:
I'm not laughing. I wasn't 'old enough' to be able to pose the question "What are cowsills"?? "Something cows sit on?" :oops:

BTW: I hereby knight Brother Dave as our official Forum Retrospectivist. :lol:


Doing 34 yrs in top-40 radio, you pickup a few things. Used some info from Susan's site. She's really an amazing musician and I've been listening to her newer stuff. Very mature and cooking tunes.

When you go back and listen to the Cowsills 67-72 stuff now, keep in mind when and where it was done, over Manny's Music in 1966/67. That is where Phil Ramone put A & R Recording when it first opened. The studio later moved to a snazzier space on 7th Av with new gear. Lots of track bounces were surely required to get that multi-layered finished product with the original 8 track setup. No computerized mixdown back then, it was manual. There is something about the way a vintage console sounded under the hand of Artie Kornfeld too. I favor Kornfeld over Spector as I think his output sounds cleaner and truer to life. Pop and rock are really two different things. Artie Kornfeld excelled at both. Phil Ramone's A&R studio in New York is very storied and so many famous recordings were made there that you can't list them all. Today Ramone's stake in the A&R Recording is in his estate since he passed away last month and the other owners include music/film luminaries Glen Frey of the Eagles and NY TV/Film producer Brooks Arthur. The "A" in A&R was Jack Arnold who was a movie and TV producer that invested money initially while Phil Ramone ran the studio. Ramone used the money A&R made him to design and build several other studios. While at the forefront of digital considered to be the "Father of the CD," Ramone's A&R analog sound was really something very, very special. Elton John, Allman Bros, Billy Joel, Paul Simon, Chicago....so many great analog recordings made there it is easily equal to Sound City but has a history that goes back further. Strings sounded universally amazing at A & R with a clarity that surpassed Sound City. Sound City however had an edge with richer percussive intensity.


Please tell me the difference between pop and rock. I have wondered for a long time. Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: any cowsills fans out there?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:48 pm
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GTG wrote:

Please tell me the difference between pop and rock. I have wondered for a long time. Thanks.


Pop Music (Pop being an abbreviation for popular) is a genre that originated in its modern form in the 1950s, deriving from rock and roll. All music that sells well is "popular" music of course, but the POP MUSIC genre itself is usually considered to be music that is geared toward a younger and less musically sophisticated audience with a shorter attention span. The Billboard "Hot 100" is the current de facto Pop chart.

For example Little Richard recorded "TUTTI FRUTTI" which was the original rock and roll version of the song but Pat Boone recorded the POP MUSIC version intended for a wider audience that wasn't as raw and edgy or energetic. Hardly anyone remembers the Pat Boone version today.

Today, Pop Music borrows from other styles including Urban, Jazz, Dance, Rock, Techno, Latin, Country, New Age and even Classical.

There are a few core components present in most Pop Music songs that are not always present in the other genres. These components are a short to medium-short length, generally under 4 minutes now, but prior to 1990 it was under 3 minutes.

Pop songs also tend to avoid controversy or addressing complex social issues unlike Rock which delights in bringing burning issues and injustices to the surface. One song called "Society's Child" by Janis Ian broke that taboo by singing about an interracial romance and was promptly banned by most stations in 1965. It gets played today on oldies stations, but back then there was a huge mess about it and hardly any Top-40 stations would play it. "Society's Child" had all the other elements of a Pop song though, and eventually the formula worked. The record company released it every year between 1965 and 1967, that's three tries and eventually it got played due pressure from fans of the song.

Most Pop has a basic verse-chorus-verse chorus-bridge-verse-verse chorus structure. This is sometime changed to start with a chorus or end with 2 choruses, but almost always all pop songs have 3 verses and at least 3 choruses with an instrumental break or a bridge before the third verse and ending chorus. Many Pop songs and especially Power Pop ones are written to have a definitive commercial hook, which can be a catchy melody or a hook phrase or a hook title or even a unique instrumental sound as a hook such as Preston Epps "Bongo Rock" instrumental hit in the 60's.

Often when I say "POP" I'm really meaning Power Pop, (I'd consider the Cowsills to be Power Pop along with the Beach Boys, the Four Seasons and even some tracks by Chicago and the Beatles.) Power Pop features all the components of Pop but is a track obviously made with the main goal being to make "EAR CANDY," which means you produce a sound that is so sweet that it is irresistible to the masses. Power Pop songs often use lusher arrangements and three, four or five part harmony more than any other form of Pop and frequently these songs are shorter than songs in about any other genre. A Power Pop piece is often a mini-symphony with specific movements that are all crammed into a 3 minute record, for example "Good Vibrations" by the Beach Boys. That piece ALSO included the unique instrumentation sound of a Theremin. It is possibly the greatest Power Pop record ever. I'd also consider "Hair" by the Cowsills to be a classic example, but I've never been a fan of that song because I just felt like it was manipulating me too much and cashing in on the rock musical "Hair." But it is Power Pop.

When I was programming radio stations in the 70's, 80's and 90's I got to be quite good at picking out what songs would do well and which ones wouldn't. I looked for the formula components and the general sound of the song. I often only needed to hear 30 seconds of a song to know whether it would make the Top-40 or not and I was right way more often than wrong.

Rock music doesn't always conform to the rules of Pop yet sometimes finds its way onto the Billboard "Hot 100" but when it does, often the song is edited or remixed to make a Pop version that is often called a "radio edit" which differs somewhat from the original version. This has been going on for ages. The same is true today of some R&B or Urban songs that get remixed for a Pop release such as Cee Lo Green's "Forget You" which was a Pop remix of his album track called "Fxxx You." "Fxxx You" definitely isn't Pop or even broadcastable but "Forget You" is. Additionally record companies would often SPEED UP the song from the original version! The single version of the Eagles "Take It Easy" is faster than the album track and it is impossible to play along with it using the original chords unless you tune your guitar up a bit.

This brings up another point. Many pop stations sped up everything. They had their turntables rigged to run 2% fast. When you played that "Take It Easy" single by the Eagles which the record company had already sped up that song was way, way too fast.

In short, if it gets played on a Top-40 radio station, often called Contemporary Hit Radio these days, then it is by default Pop Music even though it might have not been intended to be that way.

Rock is AC/DC where Pop is Maroon 5. Rock is Led Zeppelin where Pop is Justin Timberlake. Rock groups can make Pop and Pop groups can make Rock, it is in the formula of structure and content and the overall tone of the work. An excellent example of Pop group making Rock is the Beatles "Dizzy Miss Lizzy." That's a great Rock recording, but it isn't Pop at all. John Lennon is a great Rock singer obviously. On the other hand many of their recordings were Pure Pop or even Power Pop like "Penny Lane" or "A Day In The Life" whether they intended them to be or not. A few songs broke the 3 minute rule and made the pop charts but they were the exceptions and not the rule. Such as "Hey Jude" which is a Pop song, not a Rock song in spite of the 6 minute plus length. "Back In The USSR" is more of a Pop Rock piece. It got played on hard rock stations and on Top 40.

Additionally songs from other genres besides Rock can be "crossover" hits such as we've seen lately with Taylor Swift. Country hits crossing over to the Pop charts is nothing new. They don't start out Pop but fit the formula. Patsy Cline, Crystal Gayle, Kenny Rogers, Ray Price, Alabama, Willie Nelson and many other Country artists have had County songs cross over to the Pop charts ever since I can remember. Some of them seem to make a concerted effort to produce crossover bait.


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Post subject: Re: any cowsills fans out there?
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:03 am
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GTG wrote:
Please tell me the difference between pop and rock. I have wondered for a long time. Thanks.

I think what Brother Dave wrote is probably the last word on the subject!

When I think of pop music, I'm reminded of what a Supreme Court justice said when asked about the definition of pornography: "I know it when I see it." Pop music, well, I know it when I hear it! For sure it has some or all of these characteristics:
--generally geared to a younger, less musically sophisticated audience--check!
--"It's got a beat; you can dance to it"--check!
--inane, silly, or immature lyrics--check!
--you can't get that dad-gum, catchy tune out of your head--double check!

None of this is to say that the makers of popular music aren't talented musicians--one of my favorite Beatles songs is "Hello, Goodbye", and lyrics don't come any more meaningless than that! Michael Jackson wasn't exactly a hack artist either, and he dubbed himself the King of Pop, in addition to buying the Beatles catalog.

If it's really loud, it's usually rock. :lol:

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