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Post subject: Re: Lessons. Why?
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:58 pm
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You can never stop learning. If you aren't diligent enough to push yourself a few lessons can push you into territory you would never bother to explore.

I started out playing punk and I know chord theory. Honestly. For a good chunk of things I run into in most bands I know more then enough to get by. However, I found myself getting bored. I've since tasked myself and learned basic old school country, blues and monkeyed with some other things over the years. Like learning to play guitar and dabbling in reggae and the like. Not exceptionally difficult things for a bassist, but having a few different basic styles under my belt allows me to bring things from other places into what I normally do.

That being said, there are tons of things I wish I had the time to take a lesson or two to learn. Different fingering techniques. Different styles that I just haven't gotten the time to work on. Things that would likely be much quicker to grasp from someone who already knows and can relay it to me in a way that's easy to digest. Instead of having to rough it out by ear on my own.

Alas, a full time job, two kids, and a steadily gigging band leaves me very little time. If you have the time and cash why not pick something you always thought was cool. A specific strumming or lead style and have someone with the chops and right attitude to be a teacher teach you? Could be the best thing you ever did. It could open up whole new worlds of sounds.

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Post subject: Re: Lessons. Why?
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:59 pm
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Drubbing wrote:
brotherdave wrote:
Right now you need the same type instructor I had for #1. The basics of music and how it applies to your instrument and how to read notation. Skip #2 and #3 if you can. Basic music theory, notation, scales, key signatures, meter, all that.


I may be a beginner too, but I disagree about notation.

I sucked at music at school and that ingrained a decades long belief I had no talent (which is overrated anyway) or ability. What I couldn't hack was learning Music and notation.

Once I realised I don't have to 'study' music to learn to play, that changed everything. I intend learning as much theory as I can handle, but I still have no intention of learning to read music. It isn't neccessary and not everyone wants to take the time to learn that too.

YT and video learning does have limitations. One I can think of is people tend to learn visually, and bypass using the ears, because transcribing ny ear is probably just as important.

Golf analogies are nice, as a golfer myself, I've had teachers who took very different approaches to the one you mentioned. That's not going to suit everyone, so he shouldn't accept any teacher on blind faith they know what they're doing.

But you have a point in his quick dismissal of his current teacher. If he's not happy with the stuff he's being asked to learn, then he should ask 'why'? What's the aim of doing xyz etc. He needs to communicate, to be able to decide if he is putting him on the right track. Pretty much the way you'd approach any teacher you're paying for.


I agree in theory to a lot of that. I think it is a combination of ear training and theory training though. It is also about individuality and artistic creativity and making the most of what you've got. If you don't learn the basics and just copy this and copy that you don't develop anything but the ability to mimic without ever making anything your own.

I've played with some "ear" only guys who sound great at stuff they've copied, but not so great when you try to throw something original at them.

I also think there is room for tab, especially early in your guitar days. This is because learning to play by standard notation is a long drawn out complicated process that takes work and people without desire or natural inclination lose interest almost immediately. With tab, players can learn to play popular songs much more quickly. Tab helps keep your interest going and hopefully pushes you toward wanting to learn more about how it all really works.

The trouble with tab is that it doesn't teach you much beyond that and if you find yourself in a crowd of real pros you are not going to get by playing cover licks because they are going to throw original material at you that you won't find tab for anywhere. So tab has a place and fills a need for hobby players, but it is no substitute for learning music theory, scales, notation, meter, etc. if you want to solo on something original.

Then on the other hand, I know one guy who plays rhythm guitar but can't read notation and I don't think he can even play the C Major scale on command. He's been playing for 40 years at least, maybe more. He plays every cord as a Barre chord! EVERY chord. He has been in numerous bands and earned a substantial amount of money because he does it so well and will play with anyone for a buck. He can't play the first solo that I've ever heard and rarely says one word at rehearsals. He just plays in the pocket Barre chord rhythm guitar. There's room for that kind of player too apparently. I can't help but wonder why this guy never learned to do anything else or how amazing he'd have been if he had because he's so good at what he does. I guess he's happy doing just what he's doing and he's had a pretty good run as a semi-pro player around Charlotte doing it. So I guess a large part of what and how much to learn depends on what kind of player you want to be.


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Post subject: Re: Lessons. Why?
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:28 am
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Okay dudes, here's the 2008 Corgan strat in "action" (with Fender Mustang IV v1.0 amp on '65 Deluxe Reverb setting).

Please rank the guitar playing here on the following scale:

-Bad
-Very Bad
-Extremely Bad
-Terrible
-Horrific
-Embarrasingly Pathetic
-I just vomited because this is so disgusting and the person in this video should sell all of his guitars and take up a new hobby.

I'm talking about the guitar playing--playing while singing, trying to go up and down with the mood, not looking down too much. I know my voice is horrific. I sing while playing as part of the guitar playing practice. Thanks for all feedback. (If I could make one small excuse re: the singing, I'm in an apartment and I have to keep it very quiet and yet I still feel like I'm putting on a concert for my [captive audience] neighbors!) LOLZOLOZLZZLOLZZ.

(This is a song by my favorite poet, Sam Beam, by the way. I say, "Holy Sam Beam, you are the only shape I'll pray to.")

I have my 2nd lesson tonight.... I did not have time--really did not...worked until 2 AM 4 nights in a row--to work on my 7 chords or the Beatles song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s-oMBYK ... B1D1580C6B

(sorry, I don't know how to embed vids)


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Post subject: Re: Lessons. Why?
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:44 am
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I'll be brutally honest--

The rhythm guitar playing wasn't bad at all. You kept pretty decent time and your picking was clean. There is hope for you! :P

Brutal Honest, Part II:
Please stay away from any live mics...just kidding...maybe...I've heard worse singers...take that statement any way you want to.

But your (guitar) performance on this video wasn't as bad as you made it out to be.

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Post subject: Re: Lessons. Why?
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:46 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Screamin' Armadillo wrote:
I'll be brutally honest--

The rhythm guitar playing wasn't bad at all. You kept pretty decent time and your picking was clean. There is hope for you! :P

Brutal Honest, Part II:
Please stay away from any live mics...just kidding...maybe...I've heard worse singers...take that statement any way you want to.

But your (guitar) performance on this video wasn't as bad as you made it out to be.


thanks yeah I know I can't sing AT ALL. I might take voice lessons. I found out my kids' piano teacher also gives voice lessons. I asked her if she could get me to sing like Sam Beam. Does one have to be born with a good voice or can anyone learn to sing at least a little bit?


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Post subject: Re: Lessons. Why?
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:50 am
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Her Wanna wrote:
Please rank the guitar playing here on the following scale:

-Bad
-Very Bad
-Extremely Bad
-Terrible
-Horrific
-Embarrasingly Pathetic
-I just vomited because this is so disgusting and the person in this video should sell all of his guitars and take up a new hobby.


You know, I don't normally comment on 'listen to my playing' vids, as my mum always told me that if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all, and I'm far too honest for my own good sometimes.

Ignoring the voice (as requested!), nothing wrong with the playing at all for what you were trying to do, and was a lot better than I was expecting! You may not know many chords, but you play them more cleanly and with better timing than a lot of people who claim to be amazing. ;)

Keep it up. :D


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Post subject: Re: Lessons. Why?
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:57 am
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Vulpinity wrote:
Her Wanna wrote:
Please rank the guitar playing here on the following scale:

-Bad
-Very Bad
-Extremely Bad
-Terrible
-Horrific
-Embarrasingly Pathetic
-I just vomited because this is so disgusting and the person in this video should sell all of his guitars and take up a new hobby.


You know, I don't normally comment on 'listen to my playing' vids, as my mum always told me that if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all, and I'm far too honest for my own good sometimes.

Ignoring the voice (as requested!), nothing wrong with the playing at all for what you were trying to do, and was a lot better than I was expecting! You may not know many chords, but you play them more cleanly and with better timing than a lot of people who claim to be amazing. ;)

Keep it up. :D


Thanks! Here's the real studio track by Sam Beam. Now this dude can sing. If his music was piped to the entire world, perhaps violence would end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=990kOZxIOKw (he also double tracks by the way)

But do you know what? When he plays it live, his guitar part is often much more strummy and less intricate than mine is in my vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKoGxzM-zcI (skip to 1:48 for the start of the song)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkZVABsxlxw


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Post subject: Re: Lessons. Why?
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:29 am
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Well, second lesson last night was pretty good. I can see how lessons would be beneficial. I have to decide if I can afford more lessons or save that money for my daughters' piano or if I can manage both.

I can see that I need to just really practice being able to nail chord changes and barre chords. I have a habit, of course, of playing power chords. I do the 3 finger version with pinky and even get my middle finger down to form most of a minor barre chord with the ones w/ root on the A string, but I have never really gotten to where I can nail a real barrre chord and have every note ring out clean. I can do that (unlike when I first started and couldn't even imagine getting my fingers into that position), but not fast enough to get all notes clean at any kind of real tempo.

The good news is that I'm closer than I ever thought I was. Also working on pentatonic scale, alternate picking better.

Of course, I do now know the 7 chords and major and minor 7s on the low E root. Just need to work on speed...being able to DO them proficiently.

In other good news, I put new strings on my tele yesterday in record time for me. Best restringing I've ever done. I think I can finally string a guitar pretty well. Yeah!!! I finally learned to just use the string winder thing, whereas I used to be worried about damaging the tuning pegs and headstock with it (????)...now I just get the string in there the right way as taught by the dude on youtube and wind 'em up and cleaned neck, changed all 6 strings, applied graphite to the nut, did a little truss rod adjustment because went from 9s to 10s, all in about 15 minutes.

#winning

#stillbattling


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Post subject: Re: Lessons. Why?
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:43 pm
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It's your money and your time. Do it your way and embrace what comes.

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Post subject: Re: Lessons. Why?
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:13 pm
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I don't get lessons either. I had one where I played over an Eagles record with a retired bassist. That was it.

After that, it was straight powerchords and fat-assed barre chords.

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Post subject: Re: Lessons. Why?
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:18 am
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Buxom pretty much summed up my playing style too!

However a sage word of advice, that I first heard from Ginger Baker, the old malcontent.
"If you can't speak the language and you can't read the language, how can you call yourself a musician?"

People can't communicate with you, if you can't meet those two basic criteria. You have to be shown. There have been a couple of times this last year when engineers that can't play guitar have said to me, try this. And then scribbled down a bit of notation. I've had to sit there and work out his idea cos though I can read, I don't sight read. He hears it but can't communicate it via any other medium I can understand. And a few times where I've had to re-record guitar parts where old files have been damaged. And all that has been available on the song notes is I, II, V, VII or something similar. That without sitting down and completely studying something recorded 20 years ago you have to find the key of. When for all intents and purposes it sounds like the key of Amaj because of the way the song is played but actually works out as Emaj for the solo and melody lines because of the way the chord structure relates to scale theory.

And thats just for 5 chord punk stuff. Far better than spending £30 per hour to sit in a studio and try and pick something out that isn't there, by ear.

Though I learned to play by ear, I'd never slight the importance of constantly keeping your ear up to speed. Since I started playing, perfect pitch has been my constant goal. But it's only half the battle. If ear is instinct, theory is the ability to think. To sometimes go against instinct.

As for your teacher, whom you've already paid. I dunno how far you've gone with him. But to judge on one lesson is a bit off form. I'd have given him two at least. One to suss out what you need and one to teach you something. Thats why good teachers offer a first half hour or hour free.

All the best, no one expects you to understand everything over night. And if you did the fun would go out of the journey. But keep an open mind to not only what you need now, but what you may need in the future.

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Post subject: Re: Lessons. Why?
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:58 pm
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If a teacher isn't going to teach you the basics, find a new teacher...
Lots of good ones out there...

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Post subject: Re: Lessons. Why?
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:03 pm
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Lessons only work if the student can be committed. Getting lessons obviously isnt the only way that you learn, lessons guide your learning and help you out along the way.

it depends on how much you want to learn and the speed at which you do so as to whether you get lessons or not


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Post subject: Re: Lessons. Why?
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:17 pm
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Give the teacher a chance too hahaha


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Post subject: Re: Lessons. Why?
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:25 am
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Just my two cents, here. I think guitar teachers can be useful for several reasons:

1) They can help you organize your practice sessions around well-defined goals. Such as: 'I'd like to be able to play the solo to 'Stairway to Heaven,' or 'I'd like to learn how to sweep pick.' A good teacher will help you help you reach your playing goals in the best, most efficient way possible.

2) A good teacher will give you feedback that you won't receive from a book or a Youtube video. This is especially important in terms of technique because the instructor can spot bad habits or technique problems that you might not even be aware of.

3) Teachers will expose you to techniques or playing styles that you might not have stumbled upon on your own.

4) Having to perform in front of your teacher once a week or whatever will give you a better idea of what it's like to play in front of an audience. Playing for someone else (especially someone who is listening with a critical ear) is a much different experience than noodling around on your own in your bedroom. And I think most people are more likely to stick with their practice routines if they know they have to demonstrate what they've learned in front of an instructor at the end of the week.

Notice I said a GOOD teacher. You will have to decide for yourself whether or not the guy you’re seeing now is helping you achieve your goals. If not, you may have to look elsewhere (or at least have a good talk with him about exactly what you’d like to be accomplishing during your lessons).

I've had several instructors over the years and I think I’ve gotten something useful out of each of them. At any rate, I think there is no question that playing with and learning from other musicians -- be it a teacher, bandmates or jam buddies -- can go an awful long way toward helping you become a better player.


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