It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:23 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
Post subject: Re: IKE & TINA TURNER
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:09 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:13 pm
Posts: 19026
Location: Illinois, USA
brotherdave wrote:
I first came to Ike Turner's music during the "REVUE" phase in the late 60's to early 70's. Never heard of him before that. I was a teenager totally unaware he'd had quite a career already spanning the late 40's to early 60's. Since then I've learned a lot more about the early Ike Turner. I suggest instead of bashing him perhaps it would be more of a musical education to learn more about him and the significant impact he had on music and the founding of Rock And Roll prior to meeting Anna Mae Bullock, who he turned into Tina Turner.

Whatever difficulties came to Ike Turner, came after he discovered Miss Bullock in 1956.

There are two records that are held up as being arguably "THE FIRST ROCK & ROLL RECORD." One is "The Fat Man" (1949) by Fats Domino. The other is "Rocket 88" (1951) and on the label it says it is by Jackie Brenston & his Delta Cats. The fact is Jackie Brenston's "Delta Cats" is actually Ike Turner's Kings of Rhythm in which Jackie Brenston played sax. Actually Ike Turner co-wrote, arranged, played on and produced "Rocket 88" at Sun. That in itself makes him a cornerstone of Rock And Roll. Even Little Richard credits Ike Turner as more of a founding father of Rock than himself.

I know of no evidence that would cast any doubt upon what was written by the former Mrs. Turner in her "I, Tina" autobiography. I also have no evidence that the adaptation of her book by Disney/Touchstone into a major motion picture retitled to one of Tina's solo songs, "What's Love Got To Do With It," contained anything inaccurate either.

However speaking from personal experience in dealing with interpersonal relationships, failing to realize that there are always two sides to every story is very naive and foolish. Ike's story was never told while everything written in "I, Tina" or shown in the film was only the "She Said" part.

I wonder what sort of career Anna Mae Bullock would have had without having known and worked with Ike Turner?

I wonder what his legacy would have been if he'd never met Anna Mae Bullock?

The answer to both questions is almost certainly the same two words. Quite different.

Ike Turner was no doubt a classic control freak over all his employees and over all his projects and Tina alleges he habitually assaulted her. Yes he did go to prison on narcotics charges. Yes he was nabbed with a live hand grenade.

Yet few know that before he met Tina he was a teetotaler and never used any drugs of any kind and actually fired several band members just for drinking. He had already had a successful recording career and his band was booked up when he "discovered" her.

On the strength of his work he received 2 Grammy awards and was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame along with other honors regardless of what was said about him by Tina or the even worse things Disney/Touchstone added to their depiction in the film based on the book.

When I look at his work in a historical perspective instead of from a "She Said-He Said" perspective I find a dedicated professional musician both before meeting Tina, during the REVUE years and again after his infamous drug use and incarceration when he got and stayed clean and sober. Whatever his faults, he was an innovator and at least a borderline genius if not a full blown one. Genius is often accompanied by impatience or perfectionism and it is clear he at times demonstrated both. It is also clear that he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder shortly before his death.

I'm not saying he was a saint, because he certainly wasn't. What I'm saying instead is that he never wrote an autobiography and nobody ever made a movie about his side of things. Whenever you only hear one side of a story, that often isn't the entire story.

Ok, if Ike Turner was not the dastardly snake in the film why didn't Ike Turner set the record straight? He had accepted a $50,000 payment from Disney/Touchstone after Tina's book came out which in essence gagged him from speaking about out about how they were going to portray him in the film or from taking any steps legally against Disney/Touchstone to defend himself. Ike misunderstood what the legalese said until it was too late. By taking this money from Disney he signed away his right to give the "He Said" part of what happened so they could have turned him into Adolf Hitler if they wanted and he couldn't have done a single thing about it. Essentially they pretty much did just that.

After the film came out it was open season on Ike. Since he did not fire back at Disney, everyone figured he must be "guilty as charged" by Tina and became fair game for every stand up comic, late night sketch comedy show and even small town DJ's from coast to coast. People who didn't read the book didn't know that Touchstone's depiction of Ike Turner vilified him even beyond what was in the book. People didn't know about the release he signed for Touchstone/Disney either, because it had not been made public.

I've never been a huge fan of Ike Turner the person, but a fan of his music and songs and especially his arranging which excelled at making the most of what he had to work with. I can say that about a lot of people, and not just Ike Turner. While I think he was way more than just a tad difficult to work for, I don't think all the derision heaped upon him was necessarily justified. Sure he treated Tina bad, but he treated everyone bad. People knew that Ike Turner could turn on you after one little slip up. One slip or sour note was all it took to totally flip him out. That was the bipolar disorder. If you've never dealt with someone who is bipolar, you are very lucky.

As a musician I think you would do better to study his music than his personality or his domestic, legal and substance abuse issues.

cool post, thx Bros 8)

_________________
you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: IKE & TINA TURNER
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:21 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:41 pm
Posts: 764
Location: Sydney. Australia
He was heavily affected by the substance .. his bad.

//


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: IKE & TINA TURNER
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:53 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 739
brotherdave wrote:
I first came to Ike Turner's music during the "REVUE" phase in the late 60's to early 70's. Never heard of him before that. I was a teenager totally unaware he'd had quite a career already spanning the late 40's to early 60's. Since then I've learned a lot more about the early Ike Turner. I suggest instead of bashing him perhaps it would be more of a musical education to learn more about him and the significant impact he had on music and the founding of Rock And Roll prior to meeting Anna Mae Bullock, who he turned into Tina Turner.

Whatever difficulties came to Ike Turner, came after he discovered Miss Bullock in 1956.

There are two records that are held up as being arguably "THE FIRST ROCK & ROLL RECORD." One is "The Fat Man" (1949) by Fats Domino. The other is "Rocket 88" (1951) and on the label it says it is by Jackie Brenston & his Delta Cats. The fact is Jackie Brenston's "Delta Cats" is actually Ike Turner's Kings of Rhythm in which Jackie Brenston played sax. Actually Ike Turner co-wrote, arranged, played on and produced "Rocket 88" at Sun. That in itself makes him a cornerstone of Rock And Roll. Even Little Richard credits Ike Turner as more of a founding father of Rock than himself.

I know of no evidence that would cast any doubt upon what was written by the former Mrs. Turner in her "I, Tina" autobiography. I also have no evidence that the adaptation of her book by Disney/Touchstone into a major motion picture retitled to one of Tina's solo songs, "What's Love Got To Do With It," contained anything inaccurate either.

However speaking from personal experience in dealing with interpersonal relationships, failing to realize that there are always two sides to every story is very naive and foolish. Ike's story was never told while everything written in "I, Tina" or shown in the film was only the "She Said" part.

I wonder what sort of career Anna Mae Bullock would have had without having known and worked with Ike Turner?

I wonder what his legacy would have been if he'd never met Anna Mae Bullock?

The answer to both questions is almost certainly the same two words. Quite different.

Ike Turner was no doubt a classic control freak over all his employees and over all his projects and Tina alleges he habitually assaulted her. Yes he did go to prison on narcotics charges. Yes he was nabbed with a live hand grenade.

Yet few know that before he met Tina he was a teetotaler and never used any drugs of any kind and actually fired several band members just for drinking. He had already had a successful recording career and his band was booked up when he "discovered" her.

On the strength of his work he received 2 Grammy awards and was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame along with other honors regardless of what was said about him by Tina or the even worse things Disney/Touchstone added to their depiction in the film based on the book.

When I look at his work in a historical perspective instead of from a "She Said-He Said" perspective I find a dedicated professional musician both before meeting Tina, during the REVUE years and again after his infamous drug use and incarceration when he got and stayed clean and sober. Whatever his faults, he was an innovator and at least a borderline genius if not a full blown one. Genius is often accompanied by impatience or perfectionism and it is clear he at times demonstrated both. It is also clear that he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder shortly before his death.

I'm not saying he was a saint, because he certainly wasn't. What I'm saying instead is that he never wrote an autobiography and nobody ever made a movie about his side of things. Whenever you only hear one side of a story, that often isn't the entire story.

Ok, if Ike Turner was not the dastardly snake in the film why didn't Ike Turner set the record straight? He had accepted a $50,000 payment from Disney/Touchstone after Tina's book came out which in essence gagged him from speaking about out about how they were going to portray him in the film or from taking any steps legally against Disney/Touchstone to defend himself. Ike misunderstood what the legalese said until it was too late. By taking this money from Disney he signed away his right to give the "He Said" part of what happened so they could have turned him into Adolf Hitler if they wanted and he couldn't have done a single thing about it. Essentially they pretty much did just that.

After the film came out it was open season on Ike. Since he did not fire back at Disney, everyone figured he must be "guilty as charged" by Tina and became fair game for every stand up comic, late night sketch comedy show and even small town DJ's from coast to coast. People who didn't read the book didn't know that Touchstone's depiction of Ike Turner vilified him even beyond what was in the book. People didn't know about the release he signed for Touchstone/Disney either, because it had not been made public.

I've never been a huge fan of Ike Turner the person, but a fan of his music and songs and especially his arranging which excelled at making the most of what he had to work with. I can say that about a lot of people, and not just Ike Turner. While I think he was way more than just a tad difficult to work for, I don't think all the derision heaped upon him was necessarily justified. Sure he treated Tina bad, but he treated everyone bad. People knew that Ike Turner could turn on you after one little slip up. One slip or sour note was all it took to totally flip him out. That was the bipolar disorder. If you've never dealt with someone who is bipolar, you are very lucky.

As a musician I think you would do better to study his music than his personality or his domestic, legal and substance abuse issues.


Ding ding ding. We have a winner. Thank you for a non-spazzy post. Correct.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: IKE & TINA TURNER
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:27 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:50 pm
Posts: 469
Location: TURKEY
Saw the Ike and Tina Turner Revue when they came over to England in a club in Manchester called the Jungfrau
I was that near the stage, I got some of Tina's sweat on me and PP Arnold (in the Ikettes) nearly knocked me out with her plaster cast
It was a brilliant show and Tina had the audience eating out of her hand with "Proud Mary"
His guitar playing to me was good , not outstanding, but good

_________________
Ted

"All right, guys, uh, listen. This is a blues riff in "B", watch me for the changes, and try and keep up, okay?"


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: