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Post subject: Re: Has Fender ruined the Jackson brand?
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:58 pm
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Blertles wrote:
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Ah yes!! The Talon....thanks for the memories. Those senior moments are becoming fast and furious. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Has Fender ruined the Jackson brand?
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:13 pm
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That guitar is sick!

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Post subject: Re: Has Fender ruined the Jackson brand?
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:47 pm
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"Has Fender ruined the Jackson brand?"

I just got my Jackson David Ellefson signature bass V back from the repair shop at GC, they glued a 3" piece of binding back on to the headstock. I freaked while waiting, once you get used to your Jackson it gets harder to put it down, I suspect Jackson guitars have always had that quality and still do. The answer to the question is, "not so far", lets hope Fender gives Jackson, Hamer, Squier, Gretsch and Charvel room to compete against all of the other musical instrument companies. Is it just me or is every company's gear kicked up a notch in quality/curb appeal/playability/features, lately?

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Post subject: Re: Has Fender ruined the Jackson brand?
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:48 pm
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1neeto wrote:
That guitar is sick!

One wonders why, in the face of such reviews, that it's manufacture was ceased. :? Obviously there was a place for it. Perhaps not as a Fender, though. Has it found its way into newer clothes. :?:

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Post subject: Re: Has Fender ruined the Jackson brand?
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:51 pm
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The Talon looks much like an RG.


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Post subject: Re: Has Fender ruined the Jackson brand?
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:36 pm
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I forgot to add that as popular as PRS guitars and Schecter guitars and Ibanez guitars are, the wizard necks on the Ibanez RG models are kind of cool but the rest of them all seem so un-cool to me. I still like the sound of a good Stratocaster, Telecaster, Jaguar or if you must be different a Les Paul single or double cutaway (SG) after those you are settling for second best except for Jackson, the premier metal axe.

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Post subject: Re: Has Fender ruined the Jackson brand?
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:08 pm
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This is (supposedly) a brand new Jackson PC-1 (Phil Collen model). Looks like a nice guitar to me:

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it's on my local CL - the guy's trying to get $2050 out of it. These are almost $3000 new.

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Post subject: Re: Has Fender ruined the Jackson brand?
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:15 pm
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Jackson gone down because of Fender... nah. Still as solid as ever.
My budget Dinky is great. I've thrown it at walls, floors, audiences. Hit someone with it, it's been thrown across runways by Italian baggage handlers. It didn't so much as go out of tune at any of those times.
Slapped some EMGs in it, holds its own with anything else I have.

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Post subject: Re: Has Fender ruined the Jackson brand?
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:35 pm
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nikininja wrote:
Jackson gone down because of Fender... nah. Still as solid as ever.
My budget Dinky is great. I've thrown it at walls, floors, audiences. Hit someone with it, it's been thrown across runways by Italian baggage handlers. It didn't so much as go out of tune at any of those times.
Slapped some EMGs in it, holds its own with anything else I have.

I'd lobby for you to be included in their list of wear and tear 'artists'. 8)

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Post subject: Re: Has Fender ruined the Jackson brand?
Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:21 am
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Fender hasn't ruined the Jackson brand at all IMO. In the 1980's , Jackson guitars were in high demand along with Kramers and to a extent , Ibanez as well. 20 something years later, people's tastes have changed and because of the economy , they aren't willing to spend 2-3 grand on a guitar like they would've back then. Because of this, companies like Ibanez, ESP , Epiphone, and Squier are producing well made, quality guitars with the consumer in mind . There's just a lot more competition today for the consumer's money as far as Metal guitars are concerned.


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Post subject: Re: Has Fender ruined the Jackson brand?
Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:08 am
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Before I state my opinion, I have to make a disclosure:

I'm not a purist (I put a P-90 on my Tele), I am not a traditionalist (there are plenty of great guitars made outside of the US and thousands of great guitars made after 1969) and I am not ancient (I was a teenager in the 80's, so these guitars should be right up my alley)...and there were non-shred models made by these manufacturers that I like (I love the Charvel Surfcasters, several Ibanez models--Talmans, etc., and others).

I can also appreciate the talent and abilities of designers/builders/luthiers of the genre, including Grover Jackson, Wayne Charvel, etc.

Everything I'm about to write is an opinion, not a fact; your truth may be different from mine, in this regard.

I don't like most of the locking-nut/Floyd Rose-equipped/pointy-headed/fast action/"Super Strat" guitars.

My reasons are twofold:
Outside of a few, select songs by a few, select players, I don't like shredding.
It's technically impressive, but it's like a movie that consists of a series of stunts, but no plot...or maybe a pretty girl that is completely vapid.

Secondly, most of these guitars (even in the original days of Jackson, Kramer, etc.), just weren't that interesting to me.
They played well enough (easy on the fingers, generally light-weight), and (when they were set up properly) they were awesome for dive-bombing (something that I never did very often...okay, never, ever).

But overall, they were uninspiring--aesthetically, sonically, and creatively.
Yes, there were exceptions--the Fender Talon was an interesting take on the style, and the Ibanez Gem (I think that was the one with the vine-of-life inlay, please correct me if I'm wrong) was at least somewhat attractive (aesthetically).

But the plainer ones weren't interesting; I love plain-Jane Telecasters, Les Paul Juniors, etc., but a plain, single-colored Kramer with a single pickup, a single tone knob and a maple fretboard bores me...and when somebody put outrageous graphics, paint jobs or stripes all over them, it's like an unattractive girl putting on a ton of makeup, in order to hide her flaws.

A couple of the Ibanezes (Ibanii? :? ) are tonally flexible, but many/most of these guitars were one-trick ponies...and it wasn't much of a trick.
...and I really like Ibanez basses (sonically)...two different bassists in the Screamin' Armadillos have used them, and they sounded/performed great...and one of them was using the cheapest Soundgear model made!

The guitars of the genre weren't great for playing rhythm, and the tone was especially weak in that regard; generally shrill, thin or lacking (admittedly, the super-high-gain/treble-heavy amps and distortion/chorus/reverb-heavy rack effects often had a lot to do with that)...but I remember going to many shows and wondering, "Why can't I hear the guitar well? The dude has plenty of amp, the sound system is working well, and I hear every other instrument--but the guitar has no articulation or distinct sound."
It boiled down to poor construction as regards tone...the guitar/amp had to be equalized exactly right to be heard, and that was a dicey proposition, at best.

The lead tones/sounds were very bland as well...again, it was partially due to the effects/amps/rigs, but many/most of these guitars didn't sound that great live. (In the studio, it was possible to eq, isolate and bump up the guitar track, so it wasn't as big of an issue).

All of this is my humble opinion, my personal experience and my own observations...your mileage may vary (so quoth the Martian).

Having said that, I think the renewed interest in these guitars is a part of the cycle of "everything old is new again" in fashion, instruments, etc. I recently saw a little group of kids playing a teen party (I was chaperoning), and the guitarist and bassist were both playing pointy-headed Kramers (the bass was "vintage" and belonged to the bassist's aunt; the guitar was a newer re-issue). These kids were pretty talented, very enthusiastic and put on a good show...and nothing I saw or heard made me change my opinion of the instruments.

Is Fender ruining Jackson?
I thought Jackson ruined themselves in the early 90's...anything Fender is doing nowadays has to be an improvement over that (dark) era of the brand.

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Post subject: Re: Has Fender ruined the Jackson brand?
Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:28 am
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Screamin' Armadillo wrote:
I don't like most of the locking-nut/Floyd Rose-equipped/pointy-headed/fast action/"Super Strat" guitars....A couple of the Ibanezes (Ibanii? :? ) are tonally flexible, but many/most of these guitars were one-trick ponies...and it wasn't much of a trick.


I totally agree about this type of guitar being a little limited. After playing in a cover band with my Ibanez for years, I came to appreciate it for what it did well, and also know its limitations. I used to hate playing SRV songs in our set because there was just no way that was going to sound right with an Ibanez and a Marshall. I was surprised sometimes though at what it did well. We played a lot of Elton John and Billy Joel, my Ibby is perfect for that style. Also any more modern rock like Bon Jovi, etc.. I would definitely rather have a Fender Strat for versatility, but I learned to love what my pointy guitar does well.

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Post subject: Re: Has Fender ruined the Jackson brand?
Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 am
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strings10927 wrote:
Screamin' Armadillo wrote:
I don't like most of the locking-nut/Floyd Rose-equipped/pointy-headed/fast action/"Super Strat" guitars....A couple of the Ibanezes (Ibanii? :? ) are tonally flexible, but many/most of these guitars were one-trick ponies...and it wasn't much of a trick.


I totally agree about this type of guitar being a little limited. After playing in a cover band with my Ibanez for years, I came to appreciate it for what it did well, and also know its limitations. I used to hate playing SRV songs in our set because there was just no way that was going to sound right with an Ibanez and a Marshall. I was surprised sometimes though at what it did well. We played a lot of Elton John and Billy Joel, my Ibby is perfect for that style. Also any more modern rock like Bon Jovi, etc.. I would definitely rather have a Fender Strat for versatility, but I learned to love what my pointy guitar does well.

...but I think you could have probably done those same songs (Elton John, Billy Joel, Bon Jovi) with a Strat just as easily...

A Strat is just that much more flexible--especially if you put a humbucker at the bridge.

Many of those Ibby* axes were/are excellent--shoot, all of them had their place--but ultimately it is in the ear/eye/hand of the beholder.



*if it's not obvious by now, I like Ibanez best of all these brands.

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Post subject: Re: Has Fender ruined the Jackson brand?
Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:06 am
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My H/S/H Jackson is very versatile, far from a one-trick pony. Very stable, holds its tune forever no matter how hard I pull on that whammy bar.

She also looks great too!
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Post subject: Re: Has Fender ruined the Jackson brand?
Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:13 am
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brotherdave wrote:
It is more market conditions than anything FMIC did. A guitar that cost $600 to make 20 years ago costs around $1500 to make now. Plus today you have the EPA, Fish and Wildlife, the US Justice Dept, tree huggers and US Customs breathing down your neck 24/7/365.

Fender didn't ruin Jackson anymore than the designated hitter ruined baseball. Wait, the designated hitter DID ruin baseball. Ok skip that analogy. Fender didn't ruin Jackson anymore than David Lee Roth ruined Van Halen. Whoops. OK no more analogies.

It's just the economy. People want cheap guitars right now. The same question could be asked about Fender with their Modern Player series and other cost cutting moves such as the elimination of some left handed models and whittling down color choices. It is all the economy. You can make more money by selling ten $400 guitars made in some country with a low pay scale than you can selling one USA made $2000 guitar. It's business.

As to the quality of the instrument, I think it is more the quality of the player that matters. I saw a guy summer before last that played a Squier Strat within an inch of it's life. He is one of the best players I've ever seen live. I don't think anyone but me even realized he was playing what some consider a substandard instrument and I would not have enjoyed it more if he'd been playing a USA made Fender. If anything I respected his skill more, but I would not have enjoyed it more.

People seem to equate the price of an instrument with your ability to play it well. The fact is that the older you get and the more you get around watching players who can really play well, the more you will realize that there is absolutely no correlation whatsoever between the price of the instrument, what wood the body is made out of, whether the pickups are ceramic or alnico, where the instrument was made, whether there is nitro or poly paint on it and a user's actual ability to play. I think this guy could have been playing a First Act guitar off the shelf from Wal-Mart and knocked everyone out just the same. It isn't the instrument, it is you. I think today's Jacksons, even the lower end ones, are very decent instruments for the money and actually better than many other brands in the same price range. Just my opinion. So make the most of what you have to work with.


Indeed. I'll admit, I actually have a First Act guitar. It's some sort of yellow Telecaster copy that I bought it at TJ Maxx for $40 a few years ago and it's actually not that bad of an instrument. It has a really nice neck and doesn't sound horrible through an '82 Super Champ. I use it all of the time when I'm throwing down demo ideas. I've even used it live once because it was the only functional guitar I had to use at the time. I was a little apprehensive about doing so at first, but no one even noticed, or even cared. I was just playing some rhythm on a couple of songs, anyway.

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