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Post subject: Don't Give It Away!
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:28 pm
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This is on my local craigslist; I happen to agree and thought I'd pass on the message:

Musicians, Artists, Writers, etc., etc. who need money...

...don't give away your talents. Refuse to showcase your gifts. Say no to jobs that offer only "exposure."

Don't frequent "open mics" on a night when people are apt to spend money, Thursday, Friday or Saturday night. You don't get exposure! Why would Venue B pay your band when Venue A didn't? It sets a trend, until there won't be anymore paying gigs.

Don't write for "exposure!" How much exposure can you get from an unknown blog or emagazine? Who's making a livelihood? The one selling the work. It ain't you!

If you've got a beautiful body, don't give it away to an ugly person who won't pay for your "talent"!

Do I need to go on? If you're out there looking for work you've seen the ads.

Don't perpetuate the climate of "entitlement" that start-ups and some businesses are creating from this lousy economy!

Thank you for listening.

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Post subject: Re: Don't Give It Away!
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:09 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
This is on my local craigslist; I happen to agree and thought I'd pass on the message:

Musicians, Artists, Writers, etc., etc. who need money...

...don't give away your talents. Refuse to showcase your gifts. Say no to jobs that offer only "exposure."

Don't frequent "open mics" on a night when people are apt to spend money, Thursday, Friday or Saturday night. You don't get exposure! Why would Venue B pay your band when Venue A didn't? It sets a trend, until there won't be anymore paying gigs.

Don't write for "exposure!" How much exposure can you get from an unknown blog or emagazine? Who's making a livelihood? The one selling the work. It ain't you!

If you've got a beautiful body, don't give it away to an ugly person who won't pay for your "talent"!

Do I need to go on? If you're out there looking for work you've seen the ads.

Don't perpetuate the climate of "entitlement" that start-ups and some businesses are creating from this lousy economy!

Thank you for listening.


But...

Please subscribe to my Youtube Channel!
https://www.youtube.com/user/b7567

Hmmm... :roll:

j/k :P :P

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Don't Give It Away!
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:05 pm
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:lol: waiting for the right time to .... monitize :D

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Post subject: Re: Don't Give It Away!
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:49 am
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I've tried to stop playing those free (or worse, pay to play) gigs now. I played a ton of them over the years but I've gotten into a band that actually gets paid now and that's really spoiled me. :lol: I still frequent some open mics though, and I've actually gotten offered steady work sometimes from people who go to those jams. But I wouldn't go on a Friday or Saturday night.

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Post subject: Re: Don't Give It Away!
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:11 am
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I am completely in agreement with taking back our power and that can only be done by having respect for ourselves as a group, collective, call it what you want.

Excellent thread topic and post.

At my reverbnation site, the songs I think have worth are not for free download. Stream all you want. They set the price there with some charity share, oh yes, the fed gets 30%. That would be fed reserve, although its collection agency has a more familiar three letter name. Not going there, as that is another lost power issue. The ones for free would just be languishing on my hard drive, if not offered. It is about balance and not giving away the "goods".

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Post subject: Re: Don't Give It Away!
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:47 pm
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The only times that I ever played and never got or expected to be paid was back in the late 60s early 70s at the age of 15-16 when I played at one of the lacal coffee houses form time to time.Even the most recognized and popular established local entertainers didn't get paid because it was sponsered by the YMCA and all the proceeds went to them. Any other times I wouldn't even tune up my guitar in a club unless someone paid me.

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Post subject: Re: Don't Give It Away!
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:50 am
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Here's another message on CL along the same lines.

I should get things for free because I'm a special unique snowflake

Look, if it's something important enough where you know that you need somebody specialized and skilled to provide it to you, then it's important enough to set aside a bit of money for. It'd be like building a new house and saying "I want to go for a late 50's Urban Neo-Modern Art Deco vibe, but I'm going to try to do it with only furniture I find laying on the side of the road".

Why limit yourself to people willing to work for free? I know money is tight, but it's tight all around. Consider just how important public image is these days, and how much of a difference in service and quality you'll get from someone you picked out because you actually liked their work and want to have *that* look for your portfolio or business versus someone who doesn't know what they're doing and has no financial obligation to you to perform, or even show up in the first place!

So please... do yourself a favor and don't skimp on stuff that matters. Your cheapness will show.

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Last edited by strings10927 on Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Don't Give It Away!
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:55 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
This is on my local craigslist; I happen to agree and thought I'd pass on the message:
Thank you for listening.[/i]


You're welcome, my response is on the Your Poetry thread.

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Post subject: Re: Don't Give It Away!
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:08 pm
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One thing I have found in my experience is that people who play a lot of free gigs, open mics, etc, eventually just get labelled as "Oh, that person who plays free gigs a lot", and just gets expected to play for free everywhere.

If you value your own talent, it's only fair to be compensated for it. We as musicians put many hours into our craft, and spend huge amounts on equipment - if someone doesn't value you enough to pay you to play, they're probably not going to value your art much either.

Also, never undervalue yourself - bands I have been in always got more gigs when we priced ourselves on the high side, as venues assumed we were decent even without hearing a demo. Learned that trick from a promoter who booked a lot of gigs in the area - anyone who pitched themselves cheap was generally assumed to be cheap for a reason, and demos normally found themselves filed under 'bin'. :lol:

Oh, and keep your publishing. :mrgreen:


Last edited by Vulpinity on Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Don't Give It Away!
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:30 pm
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Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
strings10927 wrote:
Thank you for listening.[/i]


You're welcome, my response is on the Your Poetry thread.


the "Thank you for listening." was from the craigslist user, not sure if they'll see this here. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Don't Give It Away!
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:00 pm
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Excuse me? Pay to play?
I thought April Fools jokes had to stop by noon on the 1st.

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Post subject: Re: Don't Give It Away!
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:07 am
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A friend in New York just sent me this:

CRAIGSLIST AD:
We are a small and casual restaurant downtown and we are looking for solo musicians to play in our restaurant to promote their work and sell their CD. This is not a daily job, but only for special events which will eventually turn into nightly event if we get a positive response. More jazz, rock and smooth type music, around the world and mixed cultural music. Are you interested to promote your work? Please reply back ASAP.

MUSICIAN'S REPLY:
Happy new year! I am a musician with a big house looking for a restauranteur to come to my house to promote his/her restaurant by making dinner for me and my friends. This is not a daily job, just for special events which will eventually turn into a nightly event if we get a positive response. More fine dining and exotic meals and mixed ethnic Fusion cuisine. Are you interested to promote your restaurant? Please reply back ASAP!

I couldn't have said it better myself! :roll:

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Post subject: Re: Don't Give It Away!
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:26 am
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it sounds absurd when you flip it around like that doesn't it? We're just so used to people assuming they are entitled to our talents, it starts to sound legit.

Let them run their jukeboxes for a while, maybe they'll suddenly have money for live entertainment.

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Post subject: Re: Don't Give It Away!
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:00 am
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CRGuitarMan wrote:
CRAIGSLIST AD:
We are a small and casual restaurant downtown and we are looking for solo musicians to play in our restaurant to promote their work and sell their CD. This is not a daily job, but only for special events which will eventually turn into nightly event if we get a positive response. More jazz, rock and smooth type music, around the world and mixed cultural music. Are you interested to promote your work? Please reply back ASAP.

MUSICIAN'S REPLY:
Happy new year! I am a musician with a big house looking for a restauranteur to come to my house to promote his/her restaurant by making dinner for me and my friends. This is not a daily job, just for special events which will eventually turn into a nightly event if we get a positive response. More fine dining and exotic meals and mixed ethnic Fusion cuisine. Are you interested to promote your restaurant? Please reply back ASAP!

Bwaaahahaha - excellent! Thanks for that. 8)

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: Don't Give It Away!
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:56 am
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This is fascinating, raises a few questions.

I've lurked around this forum to discover there's a whole bunch out there with enviable talent, expertise, and experience. (I mean that very respectfully).
Then there are total noobs, such as myself, who don't know a C-sharp from a car-crash.

While I would like to get out of my living room and share a few simple songs I've written,
I wouldn't dare charge a dime, because I fluently suck in 6 different languages by comparison to those who SHOULD GET PAID TO PLAY.
I'm not looking for exposure (at age 52 and with only 2 years in, that ship has long sailed),
I just want to get out, play 3 or 4 songs, and go home.

I remember getting all kinds of gigs projecting psychedelic stage backgrounds for bands
only because I did it for fun, money didn't mean a thing.
Then I started charging for it, and the calls quit coming in.
So I can really agree with the point of this thread, where the scene is getting diluted to a "climate of entitlement".

So I ask this honestly (not out of sarcasm, challenge, or rhetoric):
Does what I am wanting to do (by venturing out without pretense) compromise the legitimate persuit of talented professional musicians?
Thanks,
david


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