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Post subject: Pretty dissapointed
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:13 am
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Called in my local music store this morning and tried out a couple of Fenders

I tried a mustang (had never played one before ) and when I used the whammy, it felt very smooth, but the top E string popped out of the cutout in the bridge saddle
I plopped it back in, but a few seconds later, out it came again (both times flipping towards the B string)

After having a close look, it appears the tremolo spacing is just too wide for the bridge, as try as I might, it continually popped out of the saddle
I was really surprised this obvious design flaw was allowed on a guitar that here in the UK costs the equivalent of $1000
The action was a little high too and the fretwork was rough on the edges of the board so I then picked up a 3TSB Jaguar

Now considering that this was as it came from the factory, I have one sentence for Fender Mexico QC ........ Get your finger out!!

This guitar had THE worst action I have ever seen on a so called quality guitar , the low E was over 1/8th of an inch away from the board . The nut string height was ridiculous and the overall feel was poor

I know a lot of you will say "Oh, that's normal, just get it set up", but I'm sorry, if that is the best Mexico can offer, then they should be sacked and a new team of inspectors hired (someone with a few brains and decent eyesight would be good)

The whammy bar action on the Jag was also very stiff and clunky and the wound strings made a noise as they went over the bridge like they were trying to settle properly

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Post subject: Re: Pretty dissapointed
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:42 am
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Specific model info would be helpful. What Mustang models are made in Mexico?

The Mustang and Jaguar have never been favorites of mine due all the slide switches for one thing. The heft of the Jaguar was another thing. The Mustang was intended as a short scale student guitar/bass platform anyway.


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Post subject: Re: Pretty dissapointed
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:07 am
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These two models were designed for heavy gauge strings, higher action and marginal use of their respective tremolos; the Mustang in particular, being a "bottom feeder". The designs of both have virtually never changed. Due to popular demand, these two models were resurrected along with all their drawbacks where utilization of light gauge string sets, low action and aggressive tremolo use are concerned. They are what they are and a faithful duplication of two 50+ year old designs is surely not a QC problem.

As always, this is merely IMO where YMMV.

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Post subject: Re: Pretty dissapointed
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:23 am
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Sorry if it reads like that, I have no idea where the mustang came from , just got it down from the wall and started playing it when the string kept popping out, so i just put it back
(lost all interest)

The Jag on the other hand was Mexican

All I'm saying (original design or no) , is that I wouldn't buy either , I consider them not worth the money asked, even the young guy sales assistant said they had people complaining about them

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Post subject: Re: Pretty dissapointed
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:52 am
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I know what you mean. I get frustrated when I hear people tell me that a certain feature isn't supposed to be used beyond a specific point. My thinking is, if it's not to be used past a certain point then why does the device allow you to go beyond that point? Somebody wasn't thinking very clearly when they came up with this idea. People didn't think that way back in Leo's day though.

I am reminded of a scene in a Dudley Moore movie called Crazy People. One mental hospital patient says to another, "I don't know what's so special about Saab cars. They didn't start half the time anyway." The other patient responds, "Well, they weren't supposed to start ALL the time ... sheesh!"

Such is the nature of instruments made from a 50 year old design. If you love an old school instrument then you commit to working around it's limitations because it was designed in an era when it was up to you to use it responsibly and not up to them to make it user friendly. If you want to play an old school instrument you have to adopt an old school practice.

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Post subject: Re: Pretty dissapointed
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:54 am
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well ted i can tell you my mex strat is great, i have made some changes over the years but from day 1 after i set it up myself never any problems. i always use the same strings on every guitar i own. fender 150s. 009s.

the changes ive made over the years are black pick guard and pickup covers steel trem block full size fender noisless pickups cts pots and a fender roller nut.ive owned this strat since march 1995 the action is very low and gives me no problems at all. its my go to guitar .. over everything else i have.

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Post subject: Re: Pretty dissapointed
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:13 am
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I'm afraid I don't agree about limitations , a good guitar , properly set up will cope with a hell of a lot of various playing styles

My '68 reissue strat copes with everything from the Shadows to Queen and the neck and fretboard feel like glass

My point about the Mustang was, the holes in the trem bar that the strings pass through were too widely spaced (this could have been easily remedied by anyone with a brain, just alter the machine that drills the holes so the holes are the same distance end to end as the bridge saddles, problem solved and NO visible difference to a "vintage" look discernable to the naked eye , but also, no annoying string popout) and the fret edges were as rough as a dogs backside and needed rounding off properly . This, I am sure , was done on the originals, but seems to have been not bothered with on this reissue, which costs a hell of a lot of money.

The same thing could be said for the Jaguar.
Sloppy QC , sharp , bulky ended frets not finished off properly and tremolo adjusted badly (and this was one of the new ones with the trem moved nearer the bridge to improve break angle over the bridge ), It just didn't work!, even doing Sleepwalk,(so no extreme whammy action) the wound strings were grinding audibly over the bridge saddles as if the knurl on the saddles was not machined smooth enough , it just felt like the thread that the string passes over was burred and hadn't been machined cleanly

Like I said in the original post, the action on the Jaguar was way too high 1/8th of an inch from the bottom of the string to the 20th fret and it looked like the bridge was lowered as much as it could go and the neck needed shimming

Considering these were brand new guitars, they should have been better factory set up , hence my statement that QC needed a good kick up the backside

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Post subject: Re: Pretty dissapointed
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:45 am
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ted j wrote:
Considering these were brand new guitars, they should have been better factory set up , hence my statement that QC needed a good kick up the backside


Personally, I think that should be the responsibility of the store selling the instruments. I'd rather have my guitar set up after it takes a trip in the back of a truck (presumably) bouncing around the back of the truck from Mexico to the United States while the temperature fluctuates.

Guitar Center, Sam Ash, etc. why don't you set up your instruments before you sell them????

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Post subject: Re: Pretty dissapointed
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:00 pm
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well ted your right . my experience has been the more expensive the worse the setup from the factory

about a year after i bought my strat i bought a ric 325. this guitar was so essed up thta i couldnt even play it at gitar center. but i knew what i could do withit so i bought it anyway. another time i was there buying a epi ej 200. it was nice but while i was paying for it i noticed this guy in a wheel chair trying out a high end les paul. i was at least 10 feet away and could see the action was way out of whack and the bow in the neck was horrible... brand new high end les paul so i called the girl that was with him over ( his sister) and told her that guitar needed a major setup. anyhow she asked what looked good to me so i went over to the wall of guitars and took down a nice epi casino. it was set real nice so i handed it to him and told him go try this in either a ac 30 or a twin reverb amp. she told me that hes just got an acoustic and is just starting to learn. anyhow the sales person was pist but point being . just because they are big bucks they arent any better setup sometimes..

the problem withthe mustang is more likely to be the string is hanging up ona burr in the drille holes and not sliding back so it allows that string to get too loose and flop to the side.. most likely deburring the hole would fix this..


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Post subject: Re: Pretty dissapointed
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:18 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
ted j wrote:
Considering these were brand new guitars, they should have been better factory set up , hence my statement that QC needed a good kick up the backside


Personally, I think that should be the responsibility of the store selling the instruments. I'd rather have my guitar set up after it takes a trip in the back of a truck (presumably) bouncing around the back of the truck from Mexico to the United States while the temperature fluctuates.

Guitar Center, Sam Ash, etc. why don't you set up your instruments before you sell them????



Perfectly put. If you instrument needs a set up when it sits in your house and the seasons change. Why on earth would anyone expect an instrument to have a factory set up and it do any good at all? When that instrument was made and shipped when it was put on a truck probably banged around on a pallet by a forklift in dry 95 degree heat during the summer weather in Mexico. Then unloaded again by a forklift in a warehouse in the Southeast where it's hot but very humid and it sits on a pallet until it's shipped to your store. Which could take til winter. By then it's cooler. The picker grabs your instrument, and throws it n on a cart. When I say throws it, I mean throws it, btw. Drives it to the door where it's loaded and sent....let's say North. So this truck then drives all the way North in the winter and the weather goes from humid and 60's to dry and in the teens, if not below zero. Then it gets unloaded at your store and tossed in a corner until it's time to unbox. Where it's likely nice and toasty to keep the customers comfy and willing to buy. It's unboxed and immediately slapped on a wall. Likely hung by it's headstock no less.

Yeah. The bad set up is DEFINITELY the fault of Fender. :roll: I mean, come on....

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Post subject: Re: Pretty dissapointed
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:27 pm
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This thing didn't just need a set up, it needed the neck shimming badly
I am 65 in May and have played guitar since age 14 , setting up all my own

I even set up a teisco /kent 4 pickup with a fixed bridge that was lowered as far as it would go by shimming the neck pocket and getting the action so low, it amazed it's owner that much he gave me the guitar!, so I know the difference inbetween a straightforward set up and something being completely wrong with a guitar and this Jaguar had something wrong It should never have been passed

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Post subject: Re: Pretty dissapointed
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:27 pm
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ted j wrote:
This thing didn't just need a set up, it needed the neck shimming badly
I am 65 in May and have played guitar since age 14 , setting up all my own

I even set up a teisco /kent 4 pickup with a fixed bridge that was lowered as far as it would go by shimming the neck pocket and getting the action so low, it amazed it's owner that much he gave me the guitar!, so I know the difference inbetween a straightforward set up and something being completely wrong with a guitar and this Jaguar had something wrong It should never have been passed



That may be, and I have to say I'm surprised. I haven't seen an issue like that out of Ensenada in years. Atleast on basses.

You kind of took the brunt of my set up rant. It was really directed at everyone I've ever heard complain about a "factory set up". in my opinion, unless you are buying it direct from the factory you should expect the retailer selling you the instrument to set it up. Transit alone will kill a good set up. The fact that GCs all over the country have guitars and basses hanging on walls that play like crap isn't Fender's fault. It's also not the fault of the instrument itself. It's the fault of the people who run that organization and the fault of the customers who decide that the money they save there is a fair trade for poorly cared for instruments. They'd rather save the 20-50 dollars on their instrument and come complain about Fender. Then either do the set yp themselves in the case of people like us who can. Or turn around and pay the money out for the people who can't. They get mad and rant and rave about how Fender is an awful company. That's not true.

They just don't have realistic expectations of what should happen during their transaction. If you buy an instrument from a dealer you should expect it set up to play. There was a time when this was done. By every dealer. If a dealer wants to demo something on their wall. They should be putting in a "standard" set up. That's the price of demoing an instrument. However, GC and their ilk get away with murder because they deal en masse. They do nothing with the instrument. Sometimes to the point of abuse. Then act like you should be grateful for them "cutting you a deal". You didn't get a deal. You just got their cost of doing business passed on to you.

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Post subject: Re: Pretty dissapointed
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:05 pm
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I worked at a Mom and Pop Music store in the late 80's in Florida and if you think a guitar shipped from California (or Mexico) factory all that way with all the temp and humidity changes isn't going to affect the factory set up...you are nuts, plain and simple. Every guitar that came in was hung in the set up room for a couple hours so it climatize to the store and then we set them up per factory specs and we checked everything, including if it needed a shim or two. We checked the fret edges...everything. If it needed adjusting we did it. No charge to the customer, part of being an authorised Fender Dealer...after all you are the companies rep to the customers!!! And yep not everyone liked our factory set up, and if they bought it, we would find out how they wanted it set up and we did that, no charge, unless you wanted different strings, then you paid for the strings only.

It is all about customer service and being a good rep for the company...so if you go to CG or any other big retailer and put up with thier lousy customer service then you are actually part of the problem. If I bought a guitar and the set up was lousy, I would tell them do a good set up or I will buy it somewhere else...and I have 40 years of set up experience. It's all about what your willing to let happen to you.

FWIW

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Post subject: Re: Pretty dissapointed
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:38 pm
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I find the customer service at GC to be outstanding... but I find that as a GC customer I am needing customer service quite often (does that make sense?) I too am frustrated that GC removes a guitar from its shipping box, tightens the strings up to an approximation of tune, and then hangs it on the wall to be abused by teenage shredders for a year while still declaring it to be a "new" guitar! I also for the life of me don't know why they do not have a luthier shop in-store let alone an amp tech.

They bend over backwards to make things right for me though... except for setting up guitars!

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Post subject: Re: Pretty dissapointed
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:42 pm
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Martian wrote:
These two models were designed for heavy gauge strings, higher action and marginal use of their respective tremolos; the Mustang in particular, being a "bottom feeder". The designs of both have virtually never changed. Due to popular demand, these two models were resurrected along with all their drawbacks where utilization of light gauge string sets, low action and aggressive tremolo use are concerned. They are what they are and a faithful duplication of two 50+ year old designs is surely not a QC problem.

As always, this is merely IMO where YMMV.


Hey Martian, I have heard this before about short-scale guitars like the Jag being meant for heavier gauge strings. Do you know why Fender puts .09s on them from the factory? Recently got a Blacktop Jag and I have wondered if I should bump it to .10s.

No problems at all with my Blacktop Jaguar... but then again it is a stoptail with no trem.

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