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Post subject: I'm refretting a guitar for the first time!
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:01 am
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Close to a year ago, I won an old Samick neck through on a online auction from Goodwill. I received the guitar having no idea what condition it was in. It turns out, the fretboard (not frets, fretboard) needed leveling and the fret work was in very poor shape. The electronics also had some issues (the neck pickup tone control doesn't work), and the pickups sound pretty awful. But it feels really good, has great upper fret access, and is the perfect guinea pig for me to learn to do repairs that are more extreme than just basic set ups!

My guitar teacher said he has some old Epiphone humbuckers that he'd let me have. They're from a mid/upper level guitar so they're probably a lot better than whatever the Samick has in there now. I'm going to completely gut the electronics to learn how to wire it back up with new parts later, but for right now I'm just going to refret it. I have it semi-playable right now, but after I get some 6105s in it and take care of the bumpy fretboard it should feel like a new guitar!

I have my boss' permission to use the shop's fretting tools when I'm off the clock, and my guitar tech is going to show me what the steps are although I'll be the one actually doing most of the work. I might leave the part about leveling the fretboard up to him though! I don't think I trust myself quite that much yet. In any case, I'll be posting pics here as I make progress! :D

Here's the guitar itself:
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Post subject: Re: I'm refretting a guitar for the first time!
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:19 am
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texasguitarslinger wrote:
I might leave the part about leveling the fretboard up to him though! I don't think I trust myself quite that much yet. In any case, I'll be posting pics here as I make progress! :D


I've done a fair bit of fret work, but I've only ever done board levelling on CBGs with slab boards which I'd made myself, so there was really no pressure if I screwed it up... but that was scary enough!

You're in a very lucky position to have a tech on hand to teach you, so I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures you get from it and hearing how it goes - I'm sure this thread will be helpful for a lot of people.

No way could I give you advice that would match what someone with experience standing over you while you do the job could give you, but I will just say this - take it slowly and you'll do a fine job. More haste, less speed, and all that :D

Good luck!

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Post subject: Re: I'm refretting a guitar for the first time!
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:20 am
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interesting. waiting for your pics.

good luck.

cheers :D

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Post subject: Re: I'm refretting a guitar for the first time!
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:31 am
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Rebecca, being that you're a gigging musician on the rise, your guitars are much more a tool than many of us here.

With that in mind, consider having this samick PLEK'd. PLEK is a computer-controlled CNC machine which works the Frets to very high tolerances and individualizes the Fret dressing for each separate string. You can also give them your personal preferences.

You'd have to send it out as there are no shops offering PLEK service in Houston, but the results would be well worth it, especially if you plan on putting this guitar to heavy use. Cost about $150 but it's for the life of the Frets.

Learn more about PLEK here: http://www.plek.com/en_US/home/ ,
http://www.guitarnation.com/articles/preston.htm .

I see that the nearest PLEK service is in Austin at Collings Guitars : http://www.collingsguitars.com/

My local 'go to' guitar shop offers PLEK service (though they farm it out to a shop in WI). The salesman demonstrated a new Standard American Telecaster which they had PLEK'd against a new Select Series Telecaster costing 3 times the price. Even to my very inexperienced hands, the PLEK'd Tele played, sounded and felt 10 times better than the more expensive Select - the difference was absolutely AMAZING!

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: I'm refretting a guitar for the first time!
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:58 am
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Hi Rebecca,

This will be a great experience. I've been playing and working on my own instruments for 40+ years. I've never even attempted thinking about a fret job. But then again, sounds like you have the perfect example to learn on.

About the pickups.. keep in mind, Epiphone and Samick were one in the same for a long time, in the 90s, I think all Eips came from Samick factories. But go for it all the same, just don't be too disappointed if there's not much difference in tone and output.

You could always look for a used set of Duncans. Can't go wrong with Duncans..


Good luck..


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Post subject: Re: I'm refretting a guitar for the first time!
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:18 am
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Lightnin MN wrote:
With that in mind, consider having this samick PLEK'd.

Hi Lightnin: the Plek machine is amazing, no doubt about that. Though to use it you already need to be excellent at fretwork and you can't learn that except by starting from the ground up. That's what TGS is out to do - it's a great way to go! :D

TGS, I have no doubt that you'll be on top of this thing from the start, especially since you already understand the functionality of guitars so well. No reason in the slightest why your very first try at refretting shouldn't produce high quality results. Nothing scary about it; take your time and you'll do just fine.

Just remember: pix, please!

Good luck - C

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Post subject: Re: I'm refretting a guitar for the first time!
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:59 pm
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Excellent Texas! I've been thinking about refretting my Bros Strat but just wasn't sure as it is something that I haven't done, so looking forward to your project. As everyone has said, slow and steady and it should turn out beautiful.

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Post subject: Re: I'm refretting a guitar for the first time!
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:39 pm
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@ Ceri,

Thanks for that clarification !

I understand the PLEK process and realize that the frets have to be already installed, strings too for that matter since the strings provide one of the parameters for the CNC program.

That wouldn't prevent Rebecca from measuring, cutting and installing the fret wire. But, it would see her get the best results from her work.

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: I'm refretting a guitar for the first time!
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:38 pm
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You have the ideal situation there Rebecca,with the owner's willingness to let you have access to all the equipment needed for a refret as well as in-house assistance.I'm sure that you are up to the challenge and will do a great job.Being able to do your own tech work is every guitarists dream,I look forward to seeing pix of the refret.Good luck with it.

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Post subject: Re: I'm refretting a guitar for the first time!
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:58 pm
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This is gonna be cool.
Anxiously waiting for the pics....

:!:

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Post subject: Re: I'm refretting a guitar for the first time!
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:57 pm
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Well, we took a closer look at it today. But all we really discovered is that this is going to take much longer to get off the ground than I had originally thought. The neck is warped so that while the bass side is straight(ish), the treble side has relief. Ideally, if your neck is going to warp, you'd want it the other way around. We need to get the treble side straight and the truss rod adjusted properly before we cut down the bass side to match. The trouble with that is that the truss rod when turned as far as it will go, still won't straighten the treble side! So my tech took the top part that screws onto the actual rod itself out and he's going to cut a washer to fit inside and allow the rod to turn further and get that neck straight. But it might be another week or two before he gets around to doing that. No pictures this time, but next time I'm a work I might try to take some "before" pictures of the wonky neck.

Lightnin MN wrote:
Rebecca, being that you're a gigging musician on the rise, your guitars are much more a tool than many of us here.

With that in mind, consider having this samick PLEK'd. PLEK is a computer-controlled CNC machine which works the Frets to very high tolerances and individualizes the Fret dressing for each separate string. You can also give them your personal preferences.

You'd have to send it out as there are no shops offering PLEK service in Houston, but the results would be well worth it, especially if you plan on putting this guitar to heavy use. Cost about $150 but it's for the life of the Frets.

Learn more about PLEK here: http://www.plek.com/en_US/home/ ,
http://www.guitarnation.com/articles/preston.htm .

I see that the nearest PLEK service is in Austin at Collings Guitars : http://www.collingsguitars.com/

My local 'go to' guitar shop offers PLEK service (though they farm it out to a shop in WI). The salesman demonstrated a new Standard American Telecaster which they had PLEK'd against a new Select Series Telecaster costing 3 times the price. Even to my very inexperienced hands, the PLEK'd Tele played, sounded and felt 10 times better than the more expensive Select - the difference was absolutely AMAZING!

cheers!


I have to admit I'm a bit wary of letting a robot touch my guitar... I think in some case plek'ing a guitar would be ideal, but I've been going to the same tech for over seven years and he knows my playing style and the quirks of how I like my guitars set up better than anyone. Plus, the fret wire I bought was $25, and the guitar was $250. Plek'ing it would be very cost prohibitive on a guitar that cheap! :lol: I could understand getting something like your Am Standard plek'd, but I don't think that my lowly Samick is worthy. Plus, it's my lab rat! :D

KidBlast wrote:
About the pickups.. keep in mind, Epiphone and Samick were one in the same for a long time, in the 90s, I think all Eips came from Samick factories. But go for it all the same, just don't be too disappointed if there's not much difference in tone and output.

You could always look for a used set of Duncans. Can't go wrong with Duncans..


Hmm, I didn't know that. I'll check them out when I get them to see exactly what they are or whether they're worth it. Apparently Epiphone pickups aren't standard replacements either, which could mean I'd have to drill for them. I was unaware of that as well, so we'll have to see what happens. I still have plenty of time to hunt for some pickups. :)

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Post subject: Re: I'm refretting a guitar for the first time!
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:43 am
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texasguitarslinger wrote:
Well, we took a closer look at it today. But all we really discovered is that this is going to take much longer to get off the ground than I had originally thought. The neck is warped so that while the bass side is straight(ish), the treble side has relief. Ideally, if your neck is going to warp, you'd want it the other way around. We need to get the treble side straight and the truss rod adjusted properly before we cut down the bass side to match. The trouble with that is that the truss rod when turned as far as it will go, still won't straighten the treble side! So my tech took the top part that screws onto the actual rod itself out and he's going to cut a washer to fit inside and allow the rod to turn further and get that neck straight. But it might be another week or two before he gets around to doing that. No pictures this time, but next time I'm a work I might try to take some "before" pictures of the wonky neck.

Ah-ha: juicy stuff! Obviously, can't comment usefully without having the neck in our hands, but from what you've written elsewhere it sounds like your guy knows his eggs, so I'm sure you're in good hands.

Just bear in mind that if you are doing some fingerboard levelling that will do a small bit to smooth out a warp - though what's important is whether the wood is still moving or not. Also, provided you level the tops of the frets perfectly there is an extent to which it doesn't matter what's happening underneath. In the end it's the playing surface that counts. For example, you can level the frets to put a compound radius on a non-compound neck, or vice versa; you can fret in such a way that a bowed neck comes out flat or a flat neck has a slight front bow on the fret tops. Lots of clever stuff you can do with the way you flatten your fret tops.

So what I'm getting at: you don't necessarily have to cure that warp 100% to end up with a well playing guitar. Though of course the more you can improve the warp the better.

TGS, do you have the book, Fret Work Step-by-Step? If not, it's not expensive and I so strongly recommend it to you, especially since you have a couple of weeks to look through it before you get started. So much good stuff in there, and it's out in a whole new updated edition by Dan Erlewine and Erick Coleman - even including a chapter on the Plek machine! You are someone who would really get good mileage out of that book.

Good luck - C

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Post subject: Re: I'm refretting a guitar for the first time!
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:41 am
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Rebecca,

I get it that you don't want to throw major bucks at this axe !

FYI though - Another parameter the PLEK machine uses is any warpage of the neck and measures it to very tight tolerances (using a Laser), then compensates for it.

cheers!

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'14 American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster
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'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
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