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Post subject: Re: Very disappointed with Fender right now.
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:04 pm
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kbean wrote:
Hey, I've already asked one moderator if there's any way for me to delete the threads since a couple of people out there in the shark tank can't seem to keep from getting their panties in such a knot. Haven't heard anything back yet.

I apologize that I was in a narcotic, pain reliever-induced stupor last night when I originally posted and probably should have slept on it first.

It is amazing to me, though, how many people were complaining about "spamming the board" yet they were all to eager to keep jumping into the pecking party and thereby keeping the posts at the top of each forum. If you didn't keep commenting the threads would have just disappeared into obscurity.


I must agree with this. If you guys don't like a thread, don't post on it and it goes away. And please don't instruct the moderators on how to do their business. Lately, they seem to have had enough advise.


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Post subject: Re: Very disappointed with Fender right now.
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:27 pm
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GTG wrote:
kbean wrote:
Hey, I've already asked one moderator if there's any way for me to delete the threads since a couple of people out there in the shark tank can't seem to keep from getting their panties in such a knot. Haven't heard anything back yet.

I apologize that I was in a narcotic, pain reliever-induced stupor last night when I originally posted and probably should have slept on it first.

It is amazing to me, though, how many people were complaining about "spamming the board" yet they were all to eager to keep jumping into the pecking party and thereby keeping the posts at the top of each forum. If you didn't keep commenting the threads would have just disappeared into obscurity.


I must agree with this. If you guys don't like a thread, don't post on it and it goes away. And please don't instruct the moderators on how to do their business. Lately, they seem to have had enough advise.

Well mate, you've introduced another interesting and challenging point of view. It will be interesting to see if, when and how the barbarian horde deals with it. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Very disappointed with Fender right now.
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:43 pm
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I don't see any difference between my bridge and, say, this one:

http://www.allparts.com/BB-0310-010-Chr ... p_538.html

I doubt if anyone could make anything stick legally, bass bridges like the one I drew are pretty much a dime a dozen.


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Post subject: Re: Very disappointed with Fender right now.
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:39 am
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kbean wrote:
I don't see any difference between my bridge and, say, this one:

http://www.allparts.com/BB-0310-010-Chr ... p_538.html



First of all: Allparts are licensed by Fender!

Second: after having seen your artwork, I'm not surprised anymore. Copyright infringement as perfect as can be.

I suggest you do a thorough search by whatever search machine pleases you:
Search for Copyright laws.

....and stop spamming all kinds of forums here.
From all I've seen, my opinion is complete: all you do is trying to harm Fender's reputation AND(!!) IMHO drawing attention to your artwork in the hope, someone here will discretely buy it.

I'm out of this now. Do a thorough research before publishing your next artwork.

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Post subject: Re: Very disappointed with Fender right now.
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:43 am
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kbean wrote:
I doubt if anyone could make anything stick legally, bass bridges like the one I drew are pretty much a dime a dozen.

If that's your case, retain counsel and move forward. Continuing the debate here serves no purpose.

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Post subject: Re: Very disappointed with Fender right now.
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:10 am
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That was not a C&D order you posted, so I'm assuming it doesn't actually exist. I looked at about 10 different C&D orders using Google Images. In every single one of them the law firm introduced itself and stated who it was representing in the first sentence.

Dishonesty is not only dishonest, it's pointless and self-defeating.

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Last edited by spacewolf on Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Very disappointed with Fender right now.
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:11 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
kbean wrote:
I doubt if anyone could make anything stick legally, bass bridges like the one I drew are pretty much a dime a dozen.

If that's your case, retain counsel and move forward. Continuing the debate here serves no purpose.

Though personally I'd be happy to continue the discussion, provided the thread doesn't descend into abuse. We've covered copyright/trademark topics here many times previously, but in fact not this particular aspect of the subject.

Meantime, kbean, ZZDoc is absolutely right. If you think you have a strong case test it at law. It is true that corporations sometimes get overly aggressive on these sorts of issue and act as if they can just stamp small guys under foot. And there are celebrated cases of small guys standing up to them and winning.

Of course, going to law is eye-wateringly expensive. However, in promising David v Goliath situations you can often find lawyers out to make a name for themselves who will take the job for free, because the kudos of spanking a bullying corporation would make their career. The first consultation with a lawyer is usually free as well, so at any rate you have nothing to lose by seeking a professional opinion.

Although. I don't think you stand a snowflake's chance in hell: now we've seen some of the artwork it is plainly as open and shut a case of trademark infringement as it gets:

Image

Corporations are sometimes bullies - but not in this case. You've tried to make money off the back of Fender's intellectual property and in response they haven't sued you or had your goods seized or demanded compensation; they've simply asked you to stop. That's as gentle and reasonable as it gets.

A useful lesson has been learned very cheaply, I'd say. Anyone with any aptitude can design images of guitars that don't infringe people's trademarks. That's the way forward.

Good luck - C

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Post subject: Re: Very disappointed with Fender right now.
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:44 am
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Ceri wrote:
ZZDoc wrote:
kbean wrote:
I doubt if anyone could make anything stick legally, bass bridges like the one I drew are pretty much a dime a dozen.

If that's your case, retain counsel and move forward. Continuing the debate here serves no purpose.

Though personally I'd be happy to continue the discussion, provided the thread doesn't descend into abuse. We've covered copyright/trademark topics here many times previously, but in fact not this particular aspect of the subject.

Meantime, kbean, ZZDoc is absolutely right. If you think you have a strong case test it at law. It is true that corporations sometimes get overly aggressive on these sorts of issue and act as if they can just stamp small guys under foot. And there are celebrated cases of small guys standing up to them and winning.

Of course, going to law is eye-wateringly expensive. However, in promising David v Goliath situations you can often find lawyers out to make a name for themselves who will take the job for free, because the kudos of spanking a bullying corporation would make their career. The first consultation with a lawyer is usually free as well, so at any rate you have nothing to lose by seeking a professional opinion.

Although. I don't think you stand a snowflake's chance in hell: now we've seen some of the artwork it is plainly as open and shut a case of trademark infringement as it gets:

Image

Corporations are sometimes bullies - but not in this case. You've tried to make money off the back of Fender's intellectual property and in response they haven't sued you or had your goods seized or demanded compensation; they've simply asked you to stop. That's as gentle and reasonable as it gets.

A useful lesson has been learned very cheaply, I'd say. Anyone with any aptitude can design images of guitars that don't infringe people's trademarks. That's the way forward.

Good luck - C

+1 :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Very disappointed with Fender right now.
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:03 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
+1 :wink:

Haha - thanks. :)

Without going into detail I'll say this much. I've worked for over 25 years in a related area to kbean and never had the slightest difficulty in not abusing someone else's intellectual property. On the other hand, I've twice had my own copyright abused. I can tell kbean; as soon as you find yourself on the other side of this situation you will see it in a whole new light.

There's nothing like having people playing fast and loose with your property to make you come over all law-and-order...

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: Very disappointed with Fender right now.
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:09 am
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Haven't been paying much attention to forums for sometime now... But this kind of discussion is what keeps me coming back!!!! A very good debate!

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Post subject: Re: Very disappointed with Fender right now.
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:39 am
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bill948 wrote:
Haven't been paying much attention to forums for sometime now... But this kind of discussion is what keeps me coming back!!!! A very good debate!

....therefore, we will not 'kill Bill.' Welcome back :!: :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Very disappointed with Fender right now.
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:32 am
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This type of infringement is illegal and has been so for many years, you should have known better, now you do. I remember around 10yrs ago Union Pacific Railroad put a stop to the use of their name and logo on hundreds of products produced by the modeling railroad industry. It sounds petty and dumb to pass up free advertising, but that's only on the surface. Many other issues are involved, and a company has every right to protect itself and it's products. No one condones Chinese companies reproducing everyone's guitars, why are you different.


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Post subject: Re: Very disappointed with Fender right now.
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:45 am
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In the same vein is a story about huggy, squeezy, furry, fuzzy cozy Disney. Many pediatric health care facilities use video to 'entertain' their troops in waiting rooms and in treatment settings. Disney sent a letter to every known pediatric medical and dental office advising them that they would consider any use of their product without consent/royalty an infringement of law. Aren't they sweet :!: :?:

It was signed "Scrooge McDuck". :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Very disappointed with Fender right now.
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:52 am
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kbean wrote:
As for seeing a Fender Jazz-Bass, it could just as easily be an old Ibanez, Hohner, Morris, Aria, Canora, you name it. I understand that there was a lawsuit regarding these but I also seem to recall that Fender lost the lawsuit except for the headstock. Since I drew the headstock freehand on the computer I doubt that you could overlay it directly on a Fender headstock and get anything to line up, unless my eye is that good. So at what point is it no longer a Fender headstock?


KBEAN ... I seem to be missing where you find that your keystroked software based renditions are anything but an artist's rendition created by a freehanded method.
Absolutely Not .... The Joker itself matches the outline of a playing card, the bass matches all the contours of a Fender bass...

Freehand is pen, pencil, rapidograph or whatever you choose to use in hand with a blank palate in front of you, not at a keyboard typing out commands and mousing about ... :?

These are freehand ....

Image

^^ This became this below as a Racer's bible cover

Image

Image

And this was for another Ad. Project ...

Image


I created all these quite a few years ago, used them in a local magazine article to promote a sporting event I was promoting. Before that I had done some Freelance Graphic work.

What your photo bucket images show is that your " artwork " is not at all freehand nor is it really of your own creation since you have pasted together someone else's creations....
Hardly what is defined as original artwork....

I would strongly advise you to heed Fender's C&D since even to a Noob it is quite obvious those images are copies ... :shock:

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Last edited by 53magnatone on Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Very disappointed with Fender right now.
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:17 am
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nevermind.

However, I still don't give a rat's $@!. you got burned on your own. It happens.

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