Hey Y'all!

Just a quick question on what people think is best for me to do.

For a while, I had been wanting to buy a Fender Mustang Amp (III or IV) after hearing so many good things about it and considering I am sort of on a budget (Unemployed 18yo who shall soon be moving for Uni), it seems ideal to have so many effects/possibilities built into one precious amp. Plus, everyone has commented on the suberb tone considering they are solid state.

However, I would love to get my hands on certain pedals out there and essentially build a collection (As I'm sure every guitarist has started out doing) but I've heard (Off people/reviews and youtube) that the Mustang isn't so good with other Pedals.

Now, for someone in my position who needs to keep a tight budget I can see why everyone would say go for the Mustang but I am a perfectionist when it comes to tone which is why it's killing me to play through Guitar Rig 5 on my computer. So here's the Question:

Do I buy the Fender Mustang III/IV and the pedal and make do with that throughout Uni or, do I buy something which isn't so dedicated to modelling such as a Frontman (other amp suggestions welcome) and then slowly build up an extensive range of pedals? (Which may not sound as good through solid state amp compared to a tube amp anyway!)

If it is of any importance I play a Classic 50's series Strat.

First off, welcome to the forum,lots of good people here. Best thing I can tell you about the Mustangs is they are flexable. Visit the local music shop and try them out if you haven't yet.
Have you given any thought to the Mustang 2? Smaller yes, but space in a dorm room is always an issue and the Fuse software makes up for most of what's not already in the amp.Last but not least, at 199.00 it's not a budget buster.

That's my .02 worth,
John.E

You're going to need something smaller and all in one for Uni.

No point in being a tone perfectionist, with a rack of pedals, when there's going to be little space to put them all, and people studying to consider, whether you're sharing a house or a dorm. Personally, I see little point in buying a Mustang, and then using a heap of pedals with it.

A Mustang I could see you through Uni. You'd never get the volume going on a III or IV to make it worth it in that situation, unless you planned gigging with it too.

I am in a tent for 6 months a year. A big tent but still have a quiet curfew of 10 PM. I have electric in my tent so rockin' out is doable. I have a Mustang l. I love it, the aux in lets me play along or learn songs. A decent pair of headphones and you can rock hard arena style and nobody knows. You start out with effects to use and can add external pedals that you can keep and use with practice/gig amp when you get one of those. 100.00 and free shipping from any online store. My two cents worth.

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I have some Fender gear.
(Telecaster, Jaguar, Villager 12 String. Mustang l, Bronco, SCX2, Rumble 350, HRDIII, Rumble 2x8 Neo Cab)
http://www.reverbnation.com/modwiz

You might want to take a look at a Vox VT series amp, they're solid state with plenty of effects but with the added bonus of a valve pre amp. They sound great, don't cost too much and aren't as fiddly as a Mustang.
http://www.voxamps.com/valvetronix/vt-series/

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No tube in the Vox preamps - the 12ax7 is in the power amp section, the preamp is 100% solid state.

I can tell you that for absolute certain, as I have the guts of one sat about three feet to my right waiting on me to attack it with a soldering iron later.

The Voxes do sound pretty good at low level, but I found the Mustang muuuch nicer at volume than the Voxes.

A Mustang amp would be a great choice for going off to college. However, as to your second option: getting a small tube amp and slowly building a collection of stompboxes... why not have your cake and eat it too? They just dropped the price of the Mustang Floor Multi-effects floorboard to $199 brand spanking new (and most of the big box stores like GC have coupons on top of that!) Score one of those and a used Fender Champ or Vox AC4TV and you are rockin through tubes with all the effects and stompbox models you could need for a dorm room!

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Tiger J

my gear:

Jackson USA Phil Collen PC-1
Warmoth Custom-Build Stratocaster (The Andersong)
Fender American Special Stratocaster
Squier J. Mascis Jazzmaster
Fender Mustang GT40
Eleven HeadRush w/ two Alto TS212 FRFRs

Welcome. My opinions are:

1. Mustang 1 (or anything like that, such as line 6 spider 15, which is open back and sounds better, even though I love Fender) would be fine for a dorm; but...

2. my opinion is that SPEAKERS MATTER if you really care about the tone. I have both the Mustang 1 and the Mustang IV, which is 150W 2X12 celestian speakers. The speakers matter. They both use the same modeling software, but the Mustang IV can sound a million times better, and I don't mean just louder. I also have a spider line 6 15 W for my bedroom amp, and frankly I think it blows away the mustang 1, which is totally closed back and had no bass and sounds weak. The mustang IV sounds pretty damned good to my amateur non-tube owning ears.

3. another way to prove my point: headphones. I can have my mustang IV on the exact same settings, whatever they may be...clean or high gain. and through the celestian speakers anything past master volume at 2.5 is RIDICULOUSLY LOUD, way too loud for an apartment or dorm. but then plug in some headphones and I need to turn the master volume up to 7. my point is that the celestian speakers and how they "interpret" the signal coming from the amp matter...the celestian 75 watt speakers are much better than the speakers in my headphones.

4. so I posted a similar comment about mustangs over on the mustang amp forum, where someone was complaining that his mustang 1 sounded like crap and failed to truly model the twin reverb amp. Well…duh…you’re talking about a $99 amp with one 8 inch speaker modeling a 2X12 monster. I’m not saying the mustang IV sounds like a real twin either, but it gets much closer.


In summary, I think the mustang IV amp is pretty awesome, but it is way too loud for a dorm…but then again if you start gigging you could use it in the type of clubs that college kids gig in. It’s super loud. Two 75 watt celestian speakers, 150 solid state watts.

Also as to your precise question about pedals through the mustang, I have not tried this because I’m happy with the modeling and the 4 button footswitch for what I do, but I intend to try it one day: I have read that the mustang 4 can be used like a “real amp” .. in other words pick one of the basic models such as 65 deluxe or 65 twin, take off all of the artificial effects, and then use pedals, and I have read that gigging guitarists are completely happy with this setup. The mustangs come with 99% of the presets being useless, according to most people…way too much “metal” way too much everything. But the 12 basic amp models “naked” that purport to model the real thing are pretty good. I love using the 65 deluxe, for example, with no effects other than just adjusting reverb, as if it were the real thing, and it sounds super sweet to my ears (would be better if I could play better). Again I’m talking about the M4 with the two 75 watt celestian speakers. I don’t think the M2 or even the M3 is quite as good even though they use the same modeling. It’s the speakers.

The M4 gives you two 75 watt celestian speakers that I’m a fan of. You have a 2X12 that’s loud as heck that can at least try to mimic a twin.

Hey,

Thanks for the opinions! Some pretty good arguments as well but I think I put to much stress on the fact I'm moving to Uni. I mentioned Uni in regargs to my budget and didn't actually think about the space I'd have to live in myself purely because I might not even be moving into a dorm/student accomodation etc. As 'Her Wanna' said, the speakers matter and it was the main reason I was looking at the IV because again, it affects the tone and there is the chance that I may use it in places which require volume and I pretty much always use headphones to practice anyway so the speakers wouldn't really matter to me when practicing.

It seems that no reply has slated the Mustang though, if anything, you all seem to have voted for it although 'Tiger J' made a good point about the Mustan floor pedal, it's actually intrigued me now and it's another possibilty.

My main worry is how much money I'll have to spend on buying pedals as I know I'd spend a lot more on an amp and various pedals than on say, a Mustang amp. It's going to take a bit more thought...

Yeah, sorry to repeat myself about 9 times, but I actually own the M1 and the M4 and I stand by the statement that "speakers matter." The M4's two 75 watt Celestian speakers are damned good, in my opinion.

Some tube snobs might disagree with me, but to be totally blunt: I think the M4 is VERY VERY AWESOME and can sound awesome with awesome tone and is totally gigworthy at small club type gigs where 18-19 years olds might be gigging while being in college. I like to play Nirvana and the modeling of that early 90s sound is spot on in my opinion, even the way the note decays into noise and feedback if you hold it (you can do exactly how it is, for example, at the end of the "teen spirit" solo where the note decays into feedback). Like, Fender *nailed* that model, IMO. But I also think the clean tones are great, either fat or thin and everything in between (the EQ works) and it could do jazz if a player who can play jazz used it.

I was thinking just last night that I wonder what some of the "tube snobs" might think if they were playing on my M4 if they have never actually tried it. I can't play well, but the amp would sound great if John Mayer were using it. And I don’t even mean this in a “challenging” way. I’m genuinely curious. I wish I could share my M4 with Armadillo or Ceri or any of you other pros with 30 whatever years of experience. I would like you to come to my home and use my mustang 4 amp on the basic 65 deluxe reverb setting and tell me what you think of the tone. It sounds great to me.

And again, I do you exact idea--use headphones in the apartment, but if I ever get in a band and can do a little gig at a little dive club, the thing is loud as hell and would not go past 5 on the master volume unless you want to shatter the windows and make people's ears bleed.

I though 12ax7's were strictly preamp tubes?

Application

The 12AX7 is a high-gain (typical amplification factor 100), low plate current triode best suited for low-level audio voltage amplification. In this role it is widely used for the preamplifier (input and mid-level) stages of audio amplifiers. It has relatively high Miller capacitance, making it unsuitable for radio-frequency use.

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99% of the time, you'll see them in that role, yes. It's used in the Voxes between the solid state preamp and the main power stage as sort of a 'micro amp' just to add a bit of that valve 'sponginess' that mostly comes from the power amp. A tube pre is nice, but it's the tube power stage that really gives most tube amps their very playable character when you wind the wick up. Vox did the hybrid thing a little differently than most, which you have to applaud them for.

You can use a 12ax7 for all sorts of things - plenty of extremely low wattage DIY amps out there using them as power tubes.

"although 'Tiger J' made a good point about the Mustan floor pedal, it's actually intrigued me now and it's another possibilty."

Its a steal at the new price-drop! Literally the cost of one or two new stompboxes! If you are just playing for yourself at home I would definitely go with a smaller tube amp (get a clean one - Fender or VOX) and the Mustang Floor. Otherwise, if you want serious gigable power at the same cost - go with the Mustang IV.

Another consideration though is that the Mustang 2.0 amps are out now... so watch for big price-drops on the Mustang 1.0 amps at any time. So far I have not heard anything about a 2.0 Mustang Floor though.

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Tiger J

my gear:

Jackson USA Phil Collen PC-1
Warmoth Custom-Build Stratocaster (The Andersong)
Fender American Special Stratocaster
Squier J. Mascis Jazzmaster
Fender Mustang GT40
Eleven HeadRush w/ two Alto TS212 FRFRs

A look at Sweetwater indicates the case is, 'look for small price increases' on the V2 items.

_________________
I have some Fender gear.
(Telecaster, Jaguar, Villager 12 String. Mustang l, Bronco, SCX2, Rumble 350, HRDIII, Rumble 2x8 Neo Cab)
http://www.reverbnation.com/modwiz

I've been using mustang I & II for about a year and they've been satisfactory. The fuse software is fun.

I play in a church on a fairly regular basis and never had a problem hearing myself. I use it strictly as a monitor and mic it to the house system.

I'd never recommend a mustang I or II for professional use. (since I'm not a professional player I'm actually not qualified to recommend anything for professional use

Tried using these amps with a digitech rp355 and could not dial in a useful tone with a gun to my head. Don't know how other pedals would work.

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In my opinion Leo Fender had essentially perfected the guitar amplifier by 1964.