I love the sound of Sonic Youth's music. I own about 8 of their albums and I intend to buy more and grow my collection. Sonic Youth are indie rock/punk/art rock legends who maintained a 30 year career, making a good living from music while staying true to their musical beliefs. I love listening to Sonic Youth music. Okay?

Now, that being said, I am good enough to be in Sonic Youth. I could go on stage with Sonic Youth right now and be in their band and jam on any song in their catalogue. If you've put in any amount of practice time for at least a year, so can you. So those of us without a band, let's form one. All we need is one good drummer and one good bass player. Here's why.

The guitarists on stage with Sonic Youth have it easy. The drummer holds a steady beat and one of the TWO basses (usually) on stage holds a bassline. The other 3 or 4 guitars on stage simply play "jazz." That is, they do their own thing, make up a riff of 3 to 6 notes and just repeat it over and over. Make some noise. Repeat. The players are not all in the same key or any one key.

Yet it sounds, oftentimes, beautiful, not just "good" if you like noise rock.

They get a lot of credit for "alternate tunings." Yeah, when you just make up a random riff of 3 to 6 notes and you're not in tune with the 3 other guitars on stage, it doesn't matter how the guitar is tuned.

I can prove my claim that I can jam with Sonic Youth right now. Well, I don't have it recorded, but one of the things I've been doing lately for fun is to do just that. I put on Sonic Youth and jam with it. I can fit right in with the band, as can you. I even do this with headphones and my iPod plugged right in to my Fender Mustang 4 amp, adjust the levels appropriately, and what I'm saying is literally true. I hear one "blend," of course, through my headphones, and my guitar's sound is blended right in with the real track and the sound could literally have been the track on the record.

Traditionally they are a 4 piece. Kim usually played bass and Thurston and Lee played guitar. 2 guitars and 1 bass. But on stage they often have a 4th guitar, either a 2nd bass (2 basses in same song) or 3rd guitar. And they do as I am describing. Three of the four guitars/basses are doing random riffs. ONE of the bass players is, indeed, holding down a consistent bassline and is swinging with the drummer.

Can anyone point to where I am wrong?

Sure, I get to play guitar!

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Or we form our own original bands.

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1984 Squier Contemporary Stratocaster
1986 Peavey Envoy 110
1967 Kingston Acoustic

Seriously dude. I'm starting to realize that for *some* styles of rock music, the guitarist really does have the easiest job. Not if you're going to perform Hendrix's "Little Wing," but on some stuff. The most freedom, at least. A lot of times it's the drummer (and only the drummer) that's holding it all together and has to follow rules (at least keeping in time).

I need to be in a band and the bassist and drummer would be better musicians than I. They could carry me and I seriously could do that, playing noisy and power chordy type stuff. Even a Cobain freakout solo.

Not that I've earned it, but I think I make a valid point. We nobodies can usually jam only with other nobodies, right? Who here gets to jam with a PROFESSIONAL quality drummer and bass player? Some will say yes, I'm sure, but many will not. I'm no Kurt Cobain nor Paul McCartney, but I swear that if I got to jam with pro equipment with Krist Novolselic playing bass and Dave Grohl playing drums (assuming I can get over the nervousness), I could have some fun and make some sounds that some would acknowledge sounds like music. Dave would be rock solid no matter what. I can play my Nirvana songs pretty well. What I don't have access to, as far as I know, is a drummer who can even come close to playing the way Dave did. Like if I ran a craigslist add (pretending I have time to mess around with a band -- I'm not a kid and I have a job and in fact I have my own kids to support, with my time, not just money), I can play about 30 Nirvana songs really well, and I feel like, where am I going to find a drummer who can or wants to play them with me? I can play as well as a lot of cover bands I've seen doing various free crap you see around that lacks any energy whatsoever doing "Louie Louie". I'd at least get something energetic going for these disinterested people at their little street fair on a Friday night. They *need* to hear a little Nirvana style. It would be good for them.

And the drumming matters, of course. One cannot play most Nirvana songs correctly along with a generic drum track, because Dave would make the hits correspond with the scratches and rythm of the guitar. The drum riff is a key part of every Nirvana song. You have to change the strumming pattern and not really play it right to play with a generic rock drum track.

So I guess my point is that my own playing would improve more quickly if I could jam with a real drummer and bass player.

To put things in perspective, my drummer has been playing for 8 years. Absolutely incredible. Local bands let him do their sound checks and everything, and he was in a black metal band until the guitar player went missing. I've been playing guitar for almost 3 years. There is a monumental gap between our abilities, yet we're still able to make some decent sounds.

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1984 Squier Contemporary Stratocaster
1986 Peavey Envoy 110
1967 Kingston Acoustic

That's cool. That's exactly my point. It would be cool to find a bass player and drummer who are way better than me to jam with. I could learn from them. Like, the drummer is a better musician but just wants to be the drummer. Actually, Nirvana itself was like that. Krist was older and probably a better guitar player than Kurt, at least when they met (Krist had certainly been playing longer), but Krist likes playing bass and Kurt was the "alpha" aggressive bandleader/singer/go-getter. I want to be in a band and I'd be happy to play rhythm.

All of this is just dreaming. I don't have time to drive anywhere in my congested city and my personal home does not allow any volume at all (assuming people would want to drive to me). So I'll just keep playing along with my iPod.

it's not hard to form a band, it's just hard to keep it together. I booted a singer earlier this week for continuous unreliability. Also, go to shows for learning purposes. i'm going to copy a local band's MO because they know what they're doing.

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1984 Squier Contemporary Stratocaster
1986 Peavey Envoy 110
1967 Kingston Acoustic

Why is it just dreaming?

If you find a drummer that meets your "professional" criteria (and one who is willing to play your style/genre), you don't have to practice every day for months on end. Even if you jam once or twice a month, you'd be able to play a noise-rock gig fairly quickly.

when the Screamin' Armadillos formed, we had less than two full rehearsals before playing our first paying gig; all of us were/are experienced players and each of them had jammed with me at one time or another, so I was the "glue," even though the drummer was our logical anchor/base. The only thing they had to learn was my physical cues when I was going to make a break or an odd change...and we were playing stuff that's a lot more involved than "noise-rock."

I have had the honor of having two excellent drummers at my disposal for about ten years now (I used to have three available, but the third moved to Seattle)...each of them play very distinctly different styles from the others--one country/rockabilly, one indie rock, one Texas Roadhouse/Blues/Classic Rock (the third guy mentioned is the one I jam with the most prefers to play the original Texas Roadhouse Music I write and perform...he had grown tired of playing covers over his long playing history), but they're all good enough to adjust to my personal idiosynchrasies fairly quickly.

PS--while I'm not a huge fan, I admire the abilities and tenacity of both of the Sonic Youth guitarists, it's not correct in any way to call their noodlings "Jazz"...it is what it is--indie noise-rock with unique tunings, textures and vibes...but jazz it isn't.

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Good Vibes To Y'all!



Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals

heck, i'd be happy to just jam with some open-minded musicians. i quit my band recently and seriously doubt i'll ever play with another one.
i simply want to play covers that span the spectrum. i just want to play tunes that the audience will find entertaining. 30 years of playing and noone wants to entertain an audience, just their own egos.

I was in a similar snit about ten years ago--left a band I was being marginalized within, depressed to the point where I didn't want to play, even by myself.
I accepted an invitation to play a party with a groups of guys whose philosophy was very different--there was a well-defined musical leader (not me), but everybody in the band had a voice and was encouraged to take solos, bring their own material and have a good time. They also didn't rehearse the fun out of the songs. We practiced once, (going over the songs with odd breaks and more than four chords a couple of times), and just winged it from there. It TOTALLY changed my view of a band dynamic, and the next week I called my old drummer and we formed the Screamin' Armadillos. I refuse to be in another band that restricts or rehearses the joy out of the music.

But you have to remember--Her Wanna/Skirt So Plain/Gossamer doesn't want to entertain the audience--he wants to shake them up and make them uncomfortable so they'll re-examine everything in their banal lives...or at least that's the vibe I get from him. He touts the (admittedly) way-out-in-left-field bands such as Sonic Youth and Dinosaur, Jr while preferring the obscure (read: non-hit) songs by Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins...

...and there's nothing wrong with following your artistic vision. I, too, prefer to play originals or obscure covers rather than "hits"--but it is possible to do have an original artistic statement without discomforting your audience.

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Good Vibes To Y'all!



Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals