I know it's not a Fender amp, but the question is about tubes soooo....

After doing a bit of research I think I'm going to go ahead and swap out the tubes in my Bugera V22 myself. I was going to take her in for the first tube change so the guy could show me what to do with the bias setting, but after some reading I think I have a handle on that now. I did use my old Lab L5 for the gig last night with the Princeton still being down and while she sounded great as always, I'm feeling it in the lower back today so I would like to get the Bugera back up and running asap since it looks like the Princeton's going to have to go into the shop.

Before I go any further...YES...I have changed tubes on amps before and do have some electronics experience...I -KNOW- what NOT to touch! And yes, I will be wearing rubber soled shoes on carpeted floor...just in case

Ok...so it's been a while since I changed tubes and it looks like the ball park has changed a bit over the years. Back some 10 to 20 years ago, Groove Tubes were -the- thing, followed closely by Mesa from what I remember. Actually I had used Audio Glassics in my old '73 Bandmaster and those sounded pretty good too. But now I'm seeing a brand called JJ and people seem to be ragging on Groove Tubes left and right.

Now before I ask for comments here I am going to ask that people not blow wind because of where the tubes were made, OK? If all you're going to say is "oh...their Chinese now...they suck", I -really- don't care for that kind of utterly moronic nonesense and it's NOT going to help. I'm looking for intelligent opinions based on experience, not BS based on bias and preconceptions...seriously, if that's ALL you have to say, please don't waste the bandwidth.

So to continue here, I just did a search on Guitar Center's website for "EL84" (what the Bugera uses obviously) and I'm seeing Groove Tubes, JJ, Ruby, Sovtek, EH and Bugera tubes. Now trying to reason my way thru some of this, since the amp already has factory Bugera tubes and I'm looking to upgrade a bit, probably don't want to go with those. And I remember Sovtek amps...was never terribly impressed with them (although I've heard from many that with Groove Tubes they sound considerably better). Likewise, never really been impressed with Electro-Harmonix in general so those are out too. Now I've never heard of Ruby or JJ...other than the bits I just read on the internet at least. So on that note...

Question 1: What's the general consensus here...how do either of those brands, Ruby or JJ, compare (if at all) with Groove Tubes?

Question 2: The GT's still seem to be priced considerably higher than just about anything else on the market...are they still worth it? As many here know, I'm not typically a big believer in "you get what you pay for"...been around too long to believe that at all. However it is my understand that GT...in the past at least...used to do some rather significant testing on their tubes to ensure quality and ratings and such to justify the price.

Question 3: I'm seeing "EL84 - S", "EL84 - R", :EL84CZ" etc...what's the deal with these extensions? It looks like "R" refers to Russian made tubes and "S" Slovakia...with the Slovak tubes being a tad more expensive. Any thoughts on quality difference here (if any)?

Question 4: With the Groove Tubes at least, they seem to come in "low", "medium" and "high"...and I'll be damned if I remember what was what. I seem to recall something about this referring to the bias or tube "grade" or something...can someone please refresh my memory on this? I'm leaning towards mediums, but I can be open minded here...


For those who haven't read my comments over in the amp section of the forums, I'm looking for a good clean sound with as much power as I can squeeze out of them...withOUT burning the amp of course. The V22 (until recently) has had plenty of power for me to use on stage...but I'll always take the extra headroom. Better to have the extra power and not need it than need it and not have it.

So, thoughts here?

As always, thanks!
Jim

Question 1 and 3 : I use JJ's Tesla in many amp

Question 4 ; number mean different breakupm/ distortion
see here ; http://www.groovetubes.com


When changing power tubes you need a bias check.

I never had any luch with GRoove Tubes. Way overpriced. I went through two sets of 6l6 power tubes which were the originals and replacements. One shorted in one set and the other just died in the other. Lifespan was around 4-6 months. They sounded okay though.

Now I run JJ's. great sounding and robust tubes. Never a problem with them and they've been going for almost three years of gigging and rehearsing. I've also used Electro Harmonix. Really nice sounding tubes.

Whatever you use be sure to have the amp properly biased. Some people love GT's. I don't. Just my personal opinion.

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Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal

Here is the valve biasing procedure manual from Bugera. Not sure if it applies to your specific amp, but you may find it useful.

http://www.behringerdownload.de/_Bugera ... _Rev.1.pdf

cheers!

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'11 FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. CAR '57 Stratocaster (SN# LE02639)
'14 American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster
'12 Telebration Empress Telecaster
'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
'12 FSR Telecaster HH
'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
'13 Lanikai Tenor Ukulele

This is for 6L6 and EL34 Buggera. The amp we talk here use EL84

I have only a limited experience with tubes as I don't really experiment much with them. I'll try a set and if I don't like them I get rid of them. I don't bother keeping them for comparison sake and I'm not much for doing A/B tube comparisons.

For 12AX7s I use older Tung Sols but apparently they have recently been being made by Sovtek and I hear they just aren't the same anymore. The older Tung Sols have a rep for being very good 12AX7s. I have a few spares so I'm good.

I also use older Tung Sols for my EL34-Bs in the Fandango. They seem a tad brighter sounding than whatever it was that came stock (unmarked and microphonic) but they have a nice dynamic feel and texture.

I like JJ Tesla for EL84s (not sure if you can still get JJ Tesla anymore). Their breakup doesn't sound as harsh and grainy as some others I tried

JJ Electronic for 6L6GC
I would recommend steer clear of any Sovtek 6L6 tube whether branded or rebranded. They just sound flat. I don't currently own a 6L6 amp but most of my friends run them as their primary amps so I do get to hear differences when they play with their tubes.

I haven't purchase a new 6V6 tube in ages so I have no comment on those except to say I used to run RCAs and liked them heeps.

I have not a great deal of experience with Groove Tubes but I've heard you have to run them very moderately for bias or they won't last at all which means they're prolly not all that well suited to most people's tastes.

That's about the extent of my limited tube knowledge. If I was in the market for new tubes I guess I'd have to do some research first as I feel a little out of touch with what's currently available.

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Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.

There are loads of brands, but only 5 or 6 places on the planet that actually manufacture valves and apart from 2 they are in Asia and Eastern Europe and owned by three companies, none of which are amp manufacturers.

In the majority of cases, the only difference between the different brands is the colour of the box.

Cheers.

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"As long as I stay Between The Sun And My Shadow, I guess I'm doing well."

Color of the box? It goes a bit deeper than that.

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Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal

I've been running JJ 6V6 power tubes in my Egnater Rebel as well as EL84 in the same amp for the past three years with no issues. I currently run JJ 6V6's in my 5E3 clone as well as their GZ34 rectifier tube. The 6V6 from JJ is one of the sturdiest current production tube around IMO. RCA's are just incredible. Sorry to say the current tubes will never run as long as the old tubes. I had power tubes in my Twin for 30 Years before I retubed it and that amp was gigged and rehearsed every week for a decent part of that time. Hard to beat the old RCA, Sylvania, Phillips and GE tubes.

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Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal

It's impossible to advise anyone about this really, you have to try different makes and see if you like them. Expensive maybe.... but what're you gonna do?

For the record i run JJ EL34's in my Marshall and they're ok, pretty good. probably nothing like a really good old Mullard or something but i'm not prepared to pay exorbitant coin for tubes.

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Luck won't do it and ignorance can't

George Van Eps.

This is true. Tone is so subjective. Reliability for me anyway is really important. That's really the only thing to consider from all the opinions. Tone is all in your ears. If you can get the tone that's in your head, it's all good.

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Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal

+1!

My perspective is that of a professional performing musician.

(professional......that means people pay me money for my services)

When I step on a stage and flip that standby switch to "on", my rig had better be ready to kick azz. In a live environment there are no second chances, no do-overs, no room for lameass excuses or alibis.

That same standard of reliability will serve guitarists of any stripe in good stead. And reliable tubes generally sound pretty good as well.

JMOOC

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY

+1,0000 Well said Arjay!

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Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal