I've heard and read the opinion that too many guitarists too often fall into "noodling" or simply playing what they already know how to do during practice time, and the corresponding view that this bad habit is not really "practice" but rather is "spinning your wheels" or “playing” or “having fun.” I think there is a video of Steve Vai on youtube saying something like this. The idea is that basically you have to constantly push yourself to try things that you can’t quite do yet, to improve.

But another view, pushed by Justin from justinguitar.com, is to keep hammering very simple stuff over and over until you can totally “own it” and do it effortlessly without making mistakes. He advocates something like doing the chord change A to D (or something like that—pick any 2 chords) at a VERY slow pace over and over for 8 hours a day for 10 months before you move on to the next lesson. I’m exaggerating a little, but you get the idea. He’s like, okay, after you’ve practiced your chords for 8 years, 5 hours a day, now you’re ready to learn your first song.

Some say to practice scales methodically. Others advocate the exact opposite, advising to learn songs you like, and by doing that you'll be learning some scale work and chording as applied in real songs.

Lately I’ve been playing the same songs I already know over and over, but I still can’t play totally mistake free, so I think it counts as practice. I’m trying to get better at even simple songs, to be able to play mistake and effort free.

One of my goals this year is to finally learn the Stairway to Heaven solo. It’s in A minor pentatonic with, of course, some tasty notes outside the scale. And I want to be able to nail it. Not only play it correctly and at full speed, but have it be so effortless that I can actually enjoy the sound of it as I'm playing it, as opposed to concentrating just to avoid mistakes. Starting on this quest has made me realize how much I suck at scales. Yeah, I know the minor pentatonic scale (I know the pattern), but I have never practiced scales all that much and I can’t play it very fast.

I’m thinking I need to go back to basics like the first month of lessons and play scales as slowly as necessary to be PERFECT and just build up speed.

Do you guys noodle too much (being honest), or do you summon the discipline to push yourself and learn something new at every practice session?

I'm as guilty of noodling as anyone. After a couple of decades of playing, it's easy to sit back and rest on your laurels a bit, I find I have to give myself a good mental kicking now and then and push myself with something I'm not comfortable with.

Learning something completely not in your world is always a good thing when that happens, I think - I'm not a fan of country, so I made myself learn a load of country licks. I don't really do widdly metal, so I made myself learn some Malmsteen. I'll probably never actually use much of it, but it snapped my playing back into focus in other styles just by pushing the envelope in others and reminding me to actually pay attention to what I'm doing.

Happens to me all the time!

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I have read all this too and it can be confusing.

In my case, being North of 55, I first had to get my conditioning up. Toughen fingers, develop a good palm spread, stretch tendons, playing relaxed and develop good musculature in my forearm, so I chose to devote several hours per day to playing scales... over and over.

I also spend 30 min. playing chords and developing good chord transition.

Also, spend 30 min./day on notation, another on picking and another on strumming. I rotate between my 4 guitars to develop a feel for different instruments.

Playing songs is not as important to me at this stage as learning great technique. It is very disappointing to have a note buzz because my finger wasn't pushed hard enough or was not on the fret. This is where I believe playing scales is helpful, also I believe playing scales repeatedly is doing much to develop my ear and the relationship between notes.

All work and no play isn't good either, so I spend another 30 min./day trying to play along with Blues I stream on WWOZ, trying to figure out which notes are being played and trying to imitate technique.

I think my pace will be slower overall, but that I'll be a better player in the end.

Of course, as I start 1-on-1 lessons next week, I may find out my whole training regimen was a waste. But it has kept me motivated and I see definite progress in all areas.

In the end, I think you have to do what feels good to you... otherwise you won't stay motivated to keep playing.

cheers!

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It's not about perfection which is unattainable. You move on to the next challenge once you have the current one at a level that ( it ) is a smooth transition and arpeggiating or strumming the chord and changing chords is clean and clear.
This is why I would advocate studying Classical guitar, it teaches you where your hand should be in relation to your fingers and where your fingers should be in order to complete the next transition.
Most R/B and R/R player have horrible technique, which is fine if you only ever want to play within a narrow constraint. But with the immensity of the musical landscape, it makes it so much easier and pleasant if you can learn to play other forms of music without feeling like your hands belong to Django Rheinhard. ( he was amazing before his accident and even more so afterwards due to the physical limits ) Thus if 1/3rd of your practice time should be devoted to developing dexterity.
John-5 is a perfect example, equally adept at chicken picking to the quieter side of Rob Zombie or M. Manson.

Listening to Celtic and acoustic players such as Pierre Bensusan, Peppino D'Agostino, Al Petteway, Laurence Juber.
Play your electric without an amp, just acoustically, ( I often do ) use your fingers instead of a pick. The players I just mentioned all have instructional DVD's.... Google them ...

As far as the fear of having wasted your time from the lessons or your teacher's perspective, wasting would be if the guitar sat in it's case unused, but guaranteed you will find that you will have to adapt or readjust your technique, that's the beauty of taking lessons. It will save you time in the long run. And by ourselves we all tend to develop bad habits....
Nothing like an objective viewpoint to get back on course.

One other thing, Don't play the same songs over and over and over ad infinitum....
It doesn't help and is actually not beneficial after a certain time.
Instead go to something else, keep it fluid, getting stuck on one song or progression and hammering at it until perfect does absolutely nothing for the musician....
It proves only that you can repeat the exact pattern flawlessly time after time.
That is not music, but an exercise.

Like typing on the keyboard, being perfect at hitting the keys will not aid in creating a comprehensible document, just lots of letters everywhere....

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There are a few schools of thought. I know that while most major league baseball infielders know how to catch and field a ground ball, they still take a couple thousand practice balls a week. ie, if ya don't use it, ya lose it.

I used to be able to play Clapton's Crossroad's solo note for note. No mas. I tried it last night for the 1st time in a few years, could barely remember it.

For me, there is a huge difference between "practicing" and "woodshedding"

When I practice, I work on things that need...well....work. Scales, chord transition, position changes, strength and flexibility, new/different style of music,ear training, new songs, new chords, etc.

When I'm woodshedding, I'm playing whatever it is that comes out of my head. I'm not worrying about technique (as much) or if every note is perfect. I'm just playing to play because I enjoy it, and it makes\keeps me sane.

That said, I had to learn how to solo and improvise, (or play a D chord for that matter) and get the technique down before I could apply it artistically.

I used to noodle in front of the TV a lot. While it doesn't help you with theory or learning anything new, it does help with muscle memory and it just plain keeps your fingers moving.

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Above everything else it's important to avoid any tension while playing. Total body awareness is key. If playing a melody and you find theres a part which causes tension in the hands, arms, wherever - it is because you are doing it wrong! This is why people like Justin demand starting slow. If you can't play something relaxed and slowly without error, then how are you ever supposed to do it properly quickly?

This is a common approach on practicing efficiently, before worrying about what material to teach yourself. Without knowing it, and slowly training your fingers to move correctly the first time, you'll continue to make the same errors even after years of practice.. which I can only imagine might be very discouraging.

Another thing to keep in mind... learning isn't linear. Throughout your guitar 'phases', you will advance at different paces.

Sometimes, you'll feel that it's taking an eternity to master a technique while at other times, things will seem to come more quickly. You'll have a number of 'Ah Ha' moments along the way - those are the Good days.

The main thing is to stick to it and try to play everyday !

cheers!

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'11 FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. CAR '57 Stratocaster (SN# LE02639)
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'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
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'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
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Like the day's where the musical universe lined up and you return the next day only to find ...

That I ...... " Must Of Been In the Wrong Place, But In the Wrong Time " .....

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"C'est parti mon Kiki "

Yeah.. I always 'noodle'...
But I guess that's mainly because I'm extremely new to playing the electric.. and my skills are pretty much non-existent.. and I get frustrated if I don't pick up things quickly.. (bad I know..)
If/When I get better, I will definitely be 'pushing'... and making up my own stuff but for now, I'm stuck with 'noodling'

I just noodled for about 3 hours today and even made a crappy video. I think noodling is still ether than not playing. I get frustrated when I try things I don't know and seem impossible, but I understand that that's the only way to improve.

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"Music is what feelings sound like"

There's a place for noodling, it's called fun. If that's all you do, progress will be painfully slow and many will get bored.


I'm doing his course, he doesn't say, or teach any of that at all.

He teaches learning chords via strumming and picking the strings on each chord to make sure you're playing clean. There is also a 1-minute exercise is to build speed, where you track how fast you can change two chords in a minute.

His advice is for students to move on when they've got comfortable with something or met his suggested milestones for each lesson. Some people take a week per lesson stage, some take longer. I took about a month per lesson, but I've 3 kids and have also taken my time. I was playing songs about 3 weeks in. I don't know anyone on his forum who spent 8 months on a single lesson, or waited that long to learn a song.

Once someone can passably do ADE chords, they could be playing basic versions of songs from his site, in a week.

I rarely ever push myself. I just have fun, and write new riffs and stuff. I reckon I haven't learned a cover song for about a year.

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Everyone learns at different paces, but there are some fundamental aspects to learning that apply to everyone.

One important thing is to define an excercise, whether it be strumming, chords, transitions... whatever, and spend a small amount of time practicing these each day.

A set time (no more than 10 min.) where you fully concentrate on just that one thing, shutting everything else out. No Radio, TV or other distractions in the background.

You really don't get any more benefit doing 20 min. of something when you're 1st learning it. In fact, as you get closer to 20 min., your playing will degrade as fatigue and mind-wandering begin to creep in.

Also, a significant amount of learning takes place in the Brain while you sleep. Ever notice that when you begin learning something often the next day it comes easier?

That's because your Brain fully processes the information and commits it to memory during the sleep cycle. Focused playing for 5-10 min. is sufficient for your brain to commit the task to long-term memory as opposed to short-term memory. This also highlights the importance of sleep, so make sure that you get good sleep every night (as possible).

Having fun (noodling) is also essential ! It is why you took up guitar in the first place and can motivate you to keep practicing.

Being over 50, I've done quite a bit of research into things like Memory and age-related Memory Loss, Senile Dementia and Alzheimer's disease. In fact, I began the guitar partly because of recent studies which show a statistically significant drop in age-related Memory Loss and Alzheimer's in people who take up a musical instrument after age 50. CT scans show a significant increase in bloodflow to the Brain and Neural activity in such people. But, I also wanted to learn guitar for many years, so it seemed doubly benefitial.

My wife is 10 years younger than I, and I don't want to spend my waning years looking across the room wondering who that strange woman is sitting in the chair !

Plus, I want to be able to play reasonably well enough to do some jamming with others, maybe some open mic nights, perhaps some writing, and possibly even some light gigging.

cheers!

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'11 FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. CAR '57 Stratocaster (SN# LE02639)
'14 American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster
'12 Telebration Empress Telecaster
'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
'12 FSR Telecaster HH
'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
'13 Lanikai Tenor Ukulele