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Post subject: Pickup DC Resistance - CAUTION: RANT
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:46 pm
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Got to rant a bit here, this is a personal bugbear for me. Just seen sooooo many posts on the internet asking if pickup X's resistance is "a good match" for pickup Y's resistance, followed by half-informed pseudoscience responses. So just let me get this out of my system then I'll be calm again.

DC resistance does not directly equate to output level of a pickup.

I honestly do not know why manufacturers even bother to specify it other than to allow you to check if the coils are damaged. Guitarists have become obsessed with DC resistance and seem to believe that it's a straight 1:1 relationship, higher resistance must equal high output right? Because, like, the number's bigger right?

Wrong.

The output voltage, tone and frequency response of a pickup is a very complex function of impedance, inductance, magnetic field density, wire gauge, capacitance and a whole host of other voodoo. Think about it for a second, when would you ever have DC running through your pickups?

Hint: audio signals are AC, unless there's something seriously wrong with your amp.

Don't take my word for it though, here's Bill Lawrence's take on the matter.

Thanks for listening. I feel better already.

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Post subject: Re: Pickup DC Resistance - CAUTION: RANT
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:40 pm
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That's nice. How else can a lay person tell approximately how a given pickup will sound. There is no industry standard for a layman. No magic Radio Shack device to economically measure all possible aspects of a pickup.

Persons that have been around a while realize the Ohm rating is just a Scientific Wild Assed Guess as to the number of windings the pickup has, thus the relative tone of said pickup. Granted there are a lot of other things to consider, but we don't rally need to know all that.

Thanks for sharing.


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Post subject: Re: Pickup DC Resistance - CAUTION: RANT
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:57 pm
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SNick wrote:
That's nice. How else can a lay person tell approximately how a given pickup will sound.


I'd say manufacturers' sound clips, Youtube, bit of internet research, recommendations.

SNick wrote:
There is no industry standard for a layman. No magic Radio Shack device to economically measure all possible aspects of a pickup.


Absolutely correct. So why do people assume the magical meaningless figure of DC resistance provides this information?

Quote:
DC resistance (Rdc) tells you as much about a pickup's tone and output as the shoe size tells you about a person's intelligence!.

- Bill Lawrence

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Post subject: Re: Pickup DC Resistance - CAUTION: RANT
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:13 pm
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Thanks frank, I can honestly say I am (misinterpreted). I thought the
Dc resistance applies when it's the same kind, eg burstbucker 1 and 2, of course
The 2 has a higher resistance, therefore in this case, yes it's a hotter louder
pickup.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Also a single coil example, Texas specials I believe
have a gradual escalating DC reading, thus hotter from neck to bridge.
But doesn't apply when comparing a different pickup with same inductance.

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Post subject: Re: Pickup DC Resistance - CAUTION: RANT
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:26 pm
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bluesstrattone wrote:
Thanks frank, I can honestly say I am (misinterpreted). I thought the
Dc resistance applies when it's the same kind, eg burstbucker 1 and 2, of course
The 2 has a higher resistance, therefore in this case, yes it's a hotter louder
pickup.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Also a single coil example, Texas specials I believe
have a gradual escalating DC reading, thus hotter from neck to bridge.
But doesn't apply when comparing a different pickup with same inductance.


All other factors being equal then yes, more windings means higher resistance and higher output. So matched sets like Texas Specials or burstbuckers will have a higher resistance overwound pickup in the bridge position. But then look at the classic Seymour Duncan combination of a JB humbucker in the bridge and a Jazz humbucker in the neck. 16k bridge versus 7.7k neck and they work just fine together, even if one resistance is more than double the other.

More techy stuff here:

http://www.lollarguitars.com/blog/2010/ ... esistance/

http://www.planetz.com/pickup-dc-resist ... ut-levels/

http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/show ... resistance

Probably the best article on resistance vs inductance (even if he seems to think inductance is a measure of power) ...

http://www.warmanguitars.co.uk/guitar_p ... rison.html

Long story short, you can't even trust the manufacturers' specs and the DC resistance of a single pickup can vary wildly with temperature. And it's not a reliable indicator of output level or tone. And yet manufacturers still quote it and guitarists still pay far too much attention to it.

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Post subject: Re: Pickup DC Resistance - CAUTION: RANT
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:33 am
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Frank,

First, I'm in agreement with you. Second, I gave up on this issue years ago. There is a obviously a huge segment of the playing population which steadfastly adhere to this "Infallible Web Dogma" which proclaims that as an absolute, higher DC resistance makes for a higher output, beefier pickup. They choose to embrace this maybe because it's a simple equation, I just don't know. I used to use a DiMarzio HS-2 as an example. It has a DC resistance of typically 14.97K ohms and yet, it is a very weak pickup, weaker than most OEM single coil Strat pickups for that matter. The bottom line here is, in spite of the plethora of other factors, such ignorance will be perpetuated. Hey, you (and I) tried.

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Post subject: Re: Pickup DC Resistance - CAUTION: RANT
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:37 am
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Martian wrote:
I used to use a DiMarzio HS-2 as an example. It has a DC resistance of typically 14.97K ohms and yet, it is a very weak pickup, weaker than most OEM single coil Strat pickups for that matter.


+1

Along the same vein, Fender's CS '69 pickups typically measure a lower DCR than many other sets yet they're possessed of relatively robust output.

Go figure.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Pickup DC Resistance - CAUTION: RANT
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:14 am
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What really makes me mad is this manufacturer - from my own home city no less - listing the "outputs" of all his pickups in kOhms.

You'd really expect a manufacturer to know better. Or at least to stop perpetuating the fallacy.

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Post subject: Re: Pickup DC Resistance - CAUTION: RANT
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:22 pm
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So did you have any info on the Fender pickups I posted about?


Last edited by donnycraven on Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Pickup DC Resistance - CAUTION: RANT
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:33 pm
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DC resistance bears little or no relation to pickup output levels


Instead of copy and pasting this all the time in my posts, you might actually say something when I post about a pickup.


Last edited by donnycraven on Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Pickup DC Resistance - CAUTION: RANT
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:33 pm
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DC resistance bears little or no relation to pickup output levels

That is if you actually were interested in the pickup I was talking about instead of just trolling for pickup post that might mention ohms...


Last edited by donnycraven on Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Pickup DC Resistance - CAUTION: RANT
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:34 pm
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DC resistance bears little or no relation to pickup output levels

:lol:


Last edited by donnycraven on Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Pickup DC Resistance - CAUTION: RANT
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:12 pm
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Frank, while you're on a roll, tell us about Henrys. I never quite understood them.

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Post subject: Re: Pickup DC Resistance - CAUTION: RANT
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:18 pm
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I'd be interested in that myself BMW-KTM.

The other comparison that gets me is alnico vs. ceramic. If I didn't own them myself, I'd still be under the impression that Alnico=clean and clear/ Ceramic=dirty. But wouldn't you know it, I have ceramic pickups that are as clean and clear as my alnicos.

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Post subject: Re: Pickup DC Resistance - CAUTION: RANT
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:37 pm
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I think that is why Dimarzio gives a output rating on each pickup. It would be nice to have a universal scale to go by. What would be the best stat to go by? It would be real nice to have a captured EQ and decibel picture from an analysis program for each one. Like they did here:



This is nice because they are comparing against a known (original) set.

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