Christmas Tragedy

bluesky636 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:05 pm

Sometimes people need to step back and remember the rules and purpose of these forums and of the Lounge in particular.

From the forum index page:

The Fender Lounge
This forum is for open public discussion of all things Fender and general music-related subjects.

From the forum code of conduct:

Political and/or religious postings are strongly discouraged here as this sort of discussion frequently leads to strong disagreement amongst forum members -- and hence is quite contrary to our goal of providing a fun, family-oriented musical instrument enthusiast community. If you wish to debate political and religious topics we encourage you to seek out an appropriate community elsewhere on the Internet to do so.

Any non-Fender-related conversation that takes up a substantial amount of the forum or chat space and prevents users from finding Fender-related information may be considered a violation of the Code of Conduct.

Brad is a pretty easy going guy. Let's not test his patience, OK?

RCB-CA-USA · **Joined:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:31 am **Posts:** 1281

America’s Biggest Killers: The Chart Anti-Gunners Don’t Want You To See

Mac Slavo
SHTFPlan.com
Jan 6, 2013

What we are hearing from bloviating gun control advocates in America is nothing short of emotionally driven irrationality.

According to statistics assembled from the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Center for Disease Control and the Federal Government, firearms related homicides are minuscule in comparison to other the other “big killers” in the United States.

If we look at homicide statistics in the United States it’s clear that more murders are committed with knives, bats, hammers and poisons than with firearms. As Kurt Nimmo recently noted, “ the number of murders committed annually with hammers and clubs far outpaces the number of murders committed with a rifle.”

http://www.infowars.com/americas-biggest-killers-the-chart-anti-gunners-dont-want-you-to-see/

Amerigo · **Posted:** Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:18 am

Deluxe Matt wrote:

It's cool the way Switzerland has a people's militia. Did you participate or complete training for it? If so, what is it like?

Everybody hates it, but you just find your way and get over with it. Everybody has to do it, so it's like a shared burden. But at least you have a military context, weapons are more or less under control and you know who's got which rifle in his cupboard.

Cheers

David

strings10927 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:15 am

bluesky636 wrote:

Brad is a pretty easy going guy. Let's not test his patience, OK?

While I agree about keeping this topic off the Fender forum (the gun debate), why don't you let Brad speak for Brad, bluesky? Do you think he didn't see the 8-page thread with flames coming off it?

Deluxe Matt · **Posted:** Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:06 pm

Amerigo wrote:

Deluxe Matt wrote:

It's cool the way Switzerland has a people's militia. Did you participate or complete training for it? If so, what is it like?

Everybody hates it, but you just find your way and get over with it. Everybody has to do it, so it's like a shared burden. But at least you have a military context, weapons are more or less under control and you know who's got which rifle in his cupboard.

Cheers

David

From what I understand, males are evaluated at 18 years old for service. If you are not able to join they have an alternative program. The training lasts for about 5-6 months. Then, you can join the regular army or be a reservist and continue on with college or work I presume. Then, you have annual inspections of your firearms to make sure they are in good working order until your service time is up. How long you must serve as a reservist? And, are you paid during basic training? Then issued a firearm with the option of obtaining additional firearms?

I can see how a lot of kids may not like it at the time, but it seems like a pretty good system. In the US we have always had an abundance of volunteers in our armed service so no need for a mandatory system. However, that might do us some good. Our big problem is gang violence. It's around 70% of our firearm deaths. I can tell you this, some formal army training would have done me a world of good as a young man. I might have matured a lot sooner.

Minnesotastrats · **Posted:** Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:10 pm

Matt, have you ever heard of The Vietnam War and the Draft? That seemed pretty mandatory to me. Mandatory registration at eighteen must be for a reason.

Deluxe Matt · **Posted:** Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:28 pm

Minnesotastrats wrote:

Matt, have you ever heard of The Vietnam War and the Draft? That seemed pretty mandatory to me. Mandatory registration at eighteen must be for a reason.

Dude... I mean we don't currently have a draft. In Switzerland I understand service to be mandatory. I know the US has had drafts, but we don't have mandatory service as part of our normal peace time way of life.

Minnesotastrats · **Posted:** Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:58 pm

Matt, why do you think that eighteen year olds have to register with the selective service system? It's not to get a census. True no one is being drafted right now because there are enough volunteers in this poor economy. However, start another war, or have a decrease in the number of volunteers to meet the quota, then the conscription begins. Just because no one is being drafted right now doesn't mean there isn't a draft. I agree a all volunteer army is better though and don't call me dude, dude.

Amerigo · **Posted:** Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:52 am

Deluxe Matt wrote:

From what I understand, males are evaluated at 18 years old for service. If you are not able to join they have an alternative program. The training lasts for about 5-6 months. Then, you can join the regular army or be a reservist and continue on with college or work I presume. Then, you have annual inspections of your firearms to make sure they are in good working order until your service time is up. How long you must serve as a reservist? And, are you paid during basic training? Then issued a firearm with the option of obtaining additional firearms?

I can see how a lot of kids may not like it at the time, but it seems like a pretty good system. In the US we have always had an abundance of volunteers in our armed service so no need for a mandatory system. However, that might do us some good. Our big problem is gang violence. It's around 70% of our firearm deaths. I can tell you this, some formal army training would have done me a world of good as a young man. I might have matured a lot sooner.

There is something called "WK", means: you have to go back to the army every year, for about 1-2 weeks until the age of around 30. So you're always an active member, fully trained and ready.

Yes, you're paid - almost nothing. You can buy the gun after your service has ended.

The system is quite good. It brings people (men only) together and it's like a glue in our society. You discover the freaks in an early stage.

Cheers

David

RCB-CA-USA · **Joined:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:31 am **Posts:** 1281

Amerigo wrote:

The system is quite good. It [guns] brings people (men only) together and it's like a glue in our society. You discover the freaks in an early stage.

Cheers

David

+1 Guns are the glue holding Switzerland together, nice! You've made my point -- a well armed citizen is the "glue" of civility!

artisan4 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:01 am

airbornestrat wrote:

jackdragbean wrote:

As far as the "no one uses an "assault rifle" to defend their home" issue, you don't know what you're talking about. Maybe you wouldn't use one, or would rather use a different caliber gun, pistol, knife, etc., but to say nobody needs one for self protection is wrong. My best friend who I've known since we were kids had the unfortunate need to use his M-15 to protect himself and his 2 young daughters from a masked man weilding a 3 ft. crowbar in his living room late one night a few years ago. The masked man was shot and killed as he tried to rush my friend. It happens, and the choice of weapon is just that....choice, but he swears that was the only gun he would have wanted in his hands that night since in most situations concerning guns, there's a 75% chance of all bullets missing within a 15 ft range due to situations, nerves, etc. He was happy to have a large magazine which he unloaded. Since only 3 bullets met their target....and rifles are much easier to control than pistols in such situations.

Not only is the 2nd ammendment there for self protection, but also to keep from oppression of a government. A .22 cal won't do that. If I own the same weapon that the government does, maybe they'll think twice before trying to become oppressive. That's why it's there in the constitution.

And now back to guitar playing.

I'll just keep my Mossberg pump gun...nothing like a 12 gauge to keep the bad guys away!
Plus, if you continue to walk up when you hear a round being chambered....you deserve what comes out of the business end. The only thing that is kind of irritating about this is when people who are not Americans feel that they have a right to tell us what to do. I am currently stationed in Canada and I have seen things I don't agree with here, but it is not my place to comment on it.
ABS

It's just a discussion. As a Canadian I'd be interested in what you encountered that you didn't like.

I think a lot of people like the US, and from my perspective I don't understand why there is opposition to an assault weapons ban. I kind of get the 'oppressive government' idea with the US being a plutocracy, although the upper class has got the $ to pay for an army and police and ordinary joes don't. Look at what they do to your unions and protesters and 'occupy' folks. I can see defending myself in my home with my Colt but I think having all those 'weapons of mass destruction' out there is asking for more massacres. Too easy.

RCB-CA-USA · **Joined:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:31 am **Posts:** 1281

artisan4 wrote:

It's just a discussion. As a Canadian I'd be interested in what you encountered that you didn't like.

Canada:
UNREPENTANT - CANADA'S GENOCIDE (documentary)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfuY9t3VhCo

What I encountered is the disarming of the indigenous population for the purpose of genocide -- Canada disarmed the indigenous population and then slaughtered unarmed indigenous people *and* stole their land.

Canadian genocide is the perfect example of "why" it is unequivocally necessary for Americans to bear arms.

Tragically, Canada's genocide is no different than the genocide committed here in America when the early settlers disarmed the American Indians and slaughtered them.

artisan4 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:31 am

RCB-CA-USA wrote:

artisan4 wrote:

It's just a discussion. As a Canadian I'd be interested in what you encountered that you didn't like.

Canada:
UNREPENTANT - CANADA'S GENOCIDE (documentary)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfuY9t3VhCo

What I encountered is the disarming of the indigenous population for the purpose of genocide -- Canada disarmed the indigenous population and then slaughtered unarmed indigenous people *and* stole their land.

Canadian genocide is the perfect example of "why" it is unequivocally necessary for Americans to bear arms.

Tragically, Canada's genocide is no different than the genocide committed here in America when the early settlers disarmed the American Indians and slaughtered them.

I guess I'm not convinced that something like that would be likely to happen in modern times here in the US and Canada. While I'm sure Harper is interested in plutocracy, Obama has taken steps against it, and regardless, a dead slave is of no use to a plutocrat.

I don't know of any group advocating or working for a physical attack on any populations in the US and Canada at this time. The current attacks are economic (right-wing upper class against middle and working classes).

RCB-CA-USA · **Joined:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:31 am **Posts:** 1281

artisan4 wrote:

RCB-CA-USA wrote:

artisan4 wrote:

It's just a discussion. As a Canadian I'd be interested in what you encountered that you didn't like.

Canada:
UNREPENTANT - CANADA'S GENOCIDE (documentary)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfuY9t3VhCo

What I encountered is the disarming of the indigenous population for the purpose of genocide -- Canada disarmed the indigenous population and then slaughtered unarmed indigenous people *and* stole their land.

Canadian genocide is the perfect example of "why" it is unequivocally necessary for Americans to bear arms.

Tragically, Canada's genocide is no different than the genocide committed here in America when the early settlers disarmed the American Indians and slaughtered them.

I guess I'm not convinced that something like that would be likely to happen in modern times here in the US and Canada. While I'm sure Harper is interested in plutocracy, Obama has taken steps against it, and regardless, a dead slave is of no use to a plutocrat.

I don't know of any group advocating or working for a physical attack on any populations in the US and Canada at this time. The current attacks are economic (right-wing upper class against middle and working classes).

...the genocide has not ceased in Canada and the documentary clearly proves this.

And apparently, my dear Canadian friend, you are not familiar with the enemies of the freedom enjoyed within the US. We face even bigger problems than financial woes. China deplores our freedoms and is calling for the US "government" to disarm US citizens.

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
December 20, 2012
The Communist Chinese government, via its state-run media front Xinhua, has called for Americans to be disarmed, arguing that the Sandy Hook school massacre demands “no delay for U.S. gun control.”
http://www.infowars.com/communist-chine ... -disarmed/

You don't have your facts straight.

strings10927 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:52 am

this thread is a forum tragedy

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