I just heard a news bulletin from Upstate New York.A fireman and a policeman were shot to death responding to a fire that a madman deliberately set in order to ambush First Responders as they answered the call.Like most cowards he turned the gun on himself.A Swat team arrived and when he realized that he had no way out he commited suicide. Police said that their arrival had prevented untold carnage as the SOB obviously planned to take a lot of lives.Now many people will never be able to look forward to or celebrate another Christmas.Please send your prayers out to the victims and their families and to all others who are experiencing heartbreak rather than joy at this time.

BTW this incident is particularly troubling to our family as one of our daughters is a firefighter and the other is a police officer.

God Bless and comfort all those who are mourning during this most holy of seasons.

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

Wow, the sicko's are really coming out of the woodwork lately. This is truly tragic. We need to start taking mental health care more seriously in this country. We did 30 years or so ago, but our wise leaders decided it was expensive. Not blaming this on anyone, obviously the only one to blame is the a$$hat that did it.

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My ability to spell is in direct proportion to the amount of coffee I've had.

It's a shame that there are people in our country that feel the solution to their problems is to create sorrow for other family's by killing their loved ones. I have attended too many first responder funerals. Deluxe Matt is correct. We have almost totally turned our backs to state run mental health facilities, unless you count our prisons as mental health facilities. Not wanting to get on my soap box, the answer is not more assault weapons sold to the general public. God Bless the families of the slain police office and fire fighter, and to the rest of all the members and guests of this forum, give your loved ones an extra hug and kiss tonight, and thank God for what you have.
Merry Christmas,
Kenny V

What's thoroughly shocking about all these tragedies is how the media never mentions the heroes who saved many lives via their 2nd right to bear arms. Instead, the media uses these tragedies to engage in radical discussions about disarming Americans.

With the exception of this new tragedy, as all the facts aren't in yet, all of these tragedies we've seen recently occur in "gun free zones" and "pharmaceuticals" are involved!

Instead of disarming Americans, we all should be thoroughly trained in firearms and self-defense and pharmaceuticals should either be banned or persons who truly qualify for those pharmaceuticals should be committed to institutions where they will be prevented from doing harm to the general population due to the radical side-effects of those pharmaceuticals.

The unfortunate truth is; guns deter nut cases, criminals, and fascist governments! Wherever there is a well armed citizenry, crime is low and governments cater to the needs of the people!

Please don't be lulled or frightened into giving away your second amendment rights to protect yourself, your family, and your community.

Media Ignore Numerous School Massacres Stopped by Gun Owners Defending Children
------------------------------------------
J. D. Heyes
Natural News
December 19, 2012
http://www.infowars.com/media-ignore-numerous-school-massacres-stopped-by-gun-owners-defending-children/

...“Criminologist Gary Kleck estimates that 2.5 million Americans use guns to defend themselves each year. Out of that number, 400,000 believe that but for their firearms, they would have been dead,” columnist Larry Elder wrote in July, following the shooting tragedy at the premier of the latest Batman movie in Aurora, Colo.

“We know from Census Bureau surveys that something beyond 100,000 uses of guns for self-defense occur every year,” adds Professor Emeritus James Q. Wilson, a public policy expert at the University of California-Los Angeles. “We know from smaller surveys of a commercial nature that the number may be as high as two-and-a-half or three million. We don’t know what the right number is, but whatever the right number is, it’s not a trivial number.”

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"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a Conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst." J. Edgar Hoover

My heart and prayers go out to their families. Here in Houston we had another senseless death of a police officer and a civilian. All this pointless killing is doing is fueling the ban on our Second Ammenment Right.

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RK

2007 Fender Highway 1
2012 American Deluxe
2015 MIM Dave Murray HHH
2010 Fender Blacktop
1987 Fender Avalon Acoustic
2012 Marshall DSL 15 watt head

There was just an update on the news,the shooter had already served a jail sentence for murder and was prohibited from owning or possessing firearms,yet he managed to amass a large arsenal-who needs gun control eh?

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

No amount of gun control is going to stop a madman bent on killing. You can still get guns if you know the right or wrong people.

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RK

2007 Fender Highway 1
2012 American Deluxe
2015 MIM Dave Murray HHH
2010 Fender Blacktop
1987 Fender Avalon Acoustic
2012 Marshall DSL 15 watt head

What it all boils down too is that if the current system is so flawed that even a previously convicted murderer with a mental condition and with a lifetime weapons ban,can slip through the cracks and amass a large arsenal of firearms, there is something abominabley wrong with the system.

After this evil and dastardly incident,the NRA will have an even bigger fight on their hands to further their cause.Are things really as bad as they think them to be?If you listen to the NRA you can't help but get the feeling that they believe that nobody is safe in their own home unless they have a stockpile of firearms and that's why they're so adamant with their fight against gun control.

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

Sorry.... but it's Christmas.. !!

NO TIME for Negative Energy !!... Can't we shut it off for one day at least..??

Apologies to those who may have personal involvement... not trying to diminish their effects on you....

But, there'll be time enough to commiserate on these issues after a few days spent with Families & Friends creating the Good Memories of our Lives.. !!

cheers!

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'11 FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. CAR '57 Stratocaster (SN# LE02639)
'14 American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster
'12 Telebration Empress Telecaster
'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
'12 FSR Telecaster HH
'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
'13 Lanikai Tenor Ukulele

Isn't that overstating it just a little bit..??

I legally own 2 Firearms (a stockpile if you will), a .38 Pistol and a .22 Rifle w/ scope - both bequeathed to me.

I own these as keepsakes... neither weapon has ever been fired, though I do have ammunition for each (if I can just remember where I put it).

I am a responsible Adult, these guns will NEVER cause a tragedy of the type you describe...

But, especially in today's World, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that they may someday actually prevent such tragedies from befalling me or one of my loved ones (if I can just remember where I put the bullets)...

cheers!

_________________


'11 FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. CAR '57 Stratocaster (SN# LE02639)
'14 American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster
'12 Telebration Empress Telecaster
'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
'12 FSR Telecaster HH
'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
'13 Lanikai Tenor Ukulele

I felt it was necessary to post that news story not only because it really hit home with me because I have a firefighter and police officer for daughters .I feel that everybody should be cognitive of the fact that while they are celebrating Christmas with family and friends there are others who are grieving .Maybe some will get the message and take a little time out of their day to give thanks for what they have and say a prayer and reach out to those who are hurting and less fortunate-isn't that what Christmas is about anyway?Nothing Negative about that.Have a great Christmas.

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

I don't think that the term "stockpile" was superfluous,at least not by what the news story had said at the time they said that the suspect "had amassed a Considerable Arsenal of firearms" one would logically surmise that "Considerable Arsenal" would denote one that was large in number.I wouldn't consider 2 guns a stockpile.You accuse me of overstating by using the word stockpile-you are being ridiculous by figuring that I'd consider 2 stockpiling.

_________________
'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

...the sooner people are educated about how gun control does not work and creates more crime, the sooner we'll not have to endure this discussion.

"More Guns, Less Crime is a book by John Lott that says violent crime rates go down when states pass "shall issue" concealed carry laws. He presents the results of his statistical analysis of crime data for every county in the United States during 29 years from 1977 to 2005. The book examines city, county and state level data from the entire United States and measures the impact of 11 different types of gun control laws on crime rates. The book expands on an earlier study published in 1997 by Lott and his co-author David Mustard in The Journal of Legal Studies.[1] Lott also examines the effects of gun control laws, including the Brady Law."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Guns,_Less_Crime

Ron Paul
"The senseless and horrific killings last week in Newtown, Connecticut reminded us that a determined individual or group of individuals can cause great harm no matter what laws are in place. Connecticut already has restrictive gun laws relative to other states, including restrictions on fully automatic, so-called “assault” rifles and gun-free zones.

Predictably, the political left responded to the tragedy with emotional calls for increased gun control. This is understandable, but misguided. The impulse to have government “do something” to protect us in the wake national tragedies is reflexive and often well intentioned. Many Americans believe that if we simply pass the right laws, future horrors like the Sandy Hook Elementary shooting can be prevented. But this impulse ignores the self evident truth that criminals don’t obey laws.

The political right, unfortunately, has fallen into the same trap in its calls for quick legislative solutions to gun violence. If only we put armed police or armed teachers in schools, we’re told, would-be school shooters will be dissuaded or stopped.

While I certainly agree that more guns equals less crime and that private gun ownership prevents many shootings, I don’t agree that conservatives and libertarians should view government legislation, especially at the federal level, as the solution to violence. Real change can happen only when we commit ourselves to rebuilding civil society in America, meaning a society based on family, religion, civic and social institutions, and peaceful cooperation through markets. We cannot reverse decades of moral and intellectual decline by snapping our fingers and passing laws.

Let’s not forget that our own government policies often undermine civil society, cheapen life, and encourage immorality. The president and other government officials denounce school violence, yet still advocate for endless undeclared wars abroad and easy abortion at home. U.S. drone strikes kill thousands, but nobody in America holds vigils or devotes much news coverage to those victims, many of which are children, albeit, of a different color.

Obviously I don’t want to conflate complex issues of foreign policy and war with the Sandy Hook shooting, but it is important to make the broader point that our federal government has zero moral authority to legislate against violence.

Furthermore, do we really want to live in a world of police checkpoints, surveillance cameras, metal detectors, X-ray scanners, and warrantless physical searches? We see this culture in our airports: witness the shabby spectacle of once proud, happy Americans shuffling through long lines while uniformed TSA agents bark orders. This is the world of government provided “security,” a world far too many Americans now seem to accept or even endorse. School shootings, no matter how horrific, do not justify creating an Orwellian surveillance state in America.

Do we really believe government can provide total security? Do we want to involuntarily commit every disaffected, disturbed, or alienated person who fantasizes about violence? Or can we accept that liberty is more important than the illusion of state-provided security? Government cannot create a world without risks, nor would we really wish to live in such a fictional place. Only a totalitarian society would even claim absolute safety as a worthy ideal, because it would require total state control over its citizens’ lives. We shouldn’t settle for substituting one type of violence for another. Government role is to protect liberty, not to pursue unobtainable safety.

Our freedoms as Americans preceded gun control laws, the TSA, or the Department of Homeland Security. Freedom is defined by the ability of citizens to live without government interference, not by safety. It is easy to clamor for government security when terrible things happen; but liberty is given true meaning when we support it without exception, and we will be safer for it.

This article first appeared on Ron Paul’s congressional site Paul.House.gov."

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"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a Conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst." J. Edgar Hoover

Sorry, not buying it...

I sense the smell of 'SoapBox' here... Though I do respect your right to your opinion...

I too have Family members who are EMTs, Police Officers and Trauma Surgeons, two of whom are on-duty tonight !

Like your Daughters, these are their chosen professions and what you describe, unfortunately, comes with the territory...

Ban Guns.. ?? Next we'll read of someone wading into a crowd with a Chainsaw, Axe, Propane Tank strapped to their chest, Molotav Cocktail, Cadillac Esplanade or whatever...

Unfortunately, there seems to be no end to the ways a disturbed individual can create havoc and end Life in mass quantities.. !!

It is an oversimplification to believe that banning Guns alone can end this madness !!

cheers!

_________________


'11 FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. CAR '57 Stratocaster (SN# LE02639)
'14 American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster
'12 Telebration Empress Telecaster
'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
'12 FSR Telecaster HH
'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
'13 Lanikai Tenor Ukulele

[/quote]
??????

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2012 American Standard Precision V - Candy Cola Red
2012 Squier Vintage Modified Jazz V - Surf Green
2011 FCS Custom Classic Special Jazz Bass V - Violin Burst
1996 MIM Stratocaster HSS - Black
1975 Precision Bass - 3 Tone Sunburst