It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:48 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
Post subject: sound guys, dumb or deaf?
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:48 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:01 pm
Posts: 6
I've been giging for about 20 years. Why is it that no sound guy understands that a tube amp has to be fairly loud to sound good. I'm always having to turn my amp down so low that I loose all the guts. Now, it's not that loud, practice volume is louder than the last gig I played and he told me to turn down four or five times.

When we do our own sound I put my guitar where I think it should be, it always sounds great. I try to be nice but when a sound guy ruins our sound because he " knows " how it "should" sound.

What do you tell sound guys like this? This is almost the same case every new venue we hit. Anyone else have this problem? How do you solve it? :twisted: I know how I'ld like to solve it but I need gigs.


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:12 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:33 am
Posts: 139
Yes I know the problem - The All-knowing Smartypants Sound Man sets everything like he thinks it should be not like you tell him. And then you start playing and he's panicaly turning the knobs because it doesn't sound good.

Drumms - OK
Rhythm guitar - Waaay too loud
Lead guitar - Waaay too quiet
Vocal - Barely heard
Bass - OK

This was on my friend's gig, I had to leave the club 'cause the first 3 songs sounded like crap til The All-knowing Smartypants Sound Man did his job properly. It just ruins the evening..........


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:13 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:33 am
Posts: 139
Oh yeah... And to answer the question - both :D


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:23 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:19 am
Posts: 859
Ouch. Well, since i've been on both sides of the fence on this one I'll have to say it does come out of the soundman thinking he knows what is best. The best ones work with you before you start by giving a thorough soundcheck (what I always tried to do) and make sure they interact with the musicians/singers to get the best sound.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:27 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:33 am
Posts: 139
You sound like a good soundman :D :D


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:28 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:31 am
Posts: 940
Actually, neither.

They know a tube amp has to be turned up to sound good. So they wonder why you idiot guitar players keep showing up for bar gigs with 100 watt tube amps when 5-10 watts would have sounded awesome.

You could just as easily say that guitar players are both dumb and deaf.

Also, the problem described as "Mr. All-Knowing Smarty Pants Sound Man" is usually the band's fault.

Was there a sound check? Probably not. So it takes a couple of songs to get dialed in. (Surprise!)

And when there IS a sound check, it goes like this:

"Lemme hear the toms."


*tink* *tink *tink*

"Okay, lemme hear the guitar."

*plink* *plink* plink*

"Okay, lemme hear the vocals."

*whisper* *whisper* *whisper*

Showtime:

WHAMMAWHAMMAWHAMMAWHAMMAWHAMMAWHAMMA!!!!!!

The only people I hear constantly complaining about soundmen being completely counterproducgtive morons are guys who virtually never work with soundmen because they are amateurs. Pros know how to keep stage volume down and sound good in the PA.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:35 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:33 am
Posts: 139
:D :D
I can see where you're going, but this man here who does most of the sound jobs is so damn incompetent. When we see the guy, we just laugh...
OK, the last time it was pretty good.
I can't really judge the others, but this guy is just - both :roll:
I've seen him on about 15 gigs - 2 of them were OK.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:45 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:23 am
Posts: 42
Sound guys can be good to some people. I went to a Kiss concert in the late 70's I left there with bleeding ears I,m still hearing Kiss to this day. Listen to your recorded voice it will sound diffrent because of the mechanics of your ears so sound guys are hearing a little diffrent then what you hear. A good sound tech can make or break a gig. just my two cents worth. Have a good one


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:59 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:58 am
Posts: 475
Location: Oklahoma
Gravity Jim wrote:
Actually, neither.

They know a tube amp has to be turned up to sound good. So they wonder why you idiot guitar players keep showing up for bar gigs with 100 watt tube amps when 5-10 watts would have sounded awesome.

You could just as easily say that guitar players are both dumb and deaf.

Also, the problem described as "Mr. All-Knowing Smarty Pants Sound Man" is usually the band's fault.

Was there a sound check? Probably not. So it takes a couple of songs to get dialed in. (Surprise!)

And when there IS a sound check, it goes like this:

"Lemme hear the toms."


*tink* *tink *tink*

"Okay, lemme hear the guitar."

*plink* *plink* plink*

"Okay, lemme hear the vocals."

*whisper* *whisper* *whisper*

Show time:

WHAMMAWHAMMAWHAMMAWHAMMAWHAMMAWHAMMA!!!!!!

The only people I hear constantly complaining about soundmen being completely counterproductive morons are guys who virtually never work with soundmen because they are amateurs. Pros know how to keep stage volume down and sound good in the PA.


Nicely said Jim. Remember this; the sound-man is herring your music from the PA system in the booth.Your trying to listen to your amp (you can barley here your amp because its suppose to blend into the pa system.)I use to think what you think.(I cant here my guitar.This sound-man sucks."Some times they really do suck and you need a new one" But 85% of all the sound-men know what there doing.)Even though it may not sound loud enough to you the crowed can here it just fine. 8) Remember this "The sound-man is your best friend but your worst enemy."

_________________
I own a HSS strat fender.
Try your best but don't try to hard.
(Sorry if my grammar's not wright)


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:07 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:03 pm
Posts: 1222
Location: Texas
Gravity Jim wrote:
Actually, neither.

They know a tube amp has to be turned up to sound good. So they wonder why you idiot guitar players keep showing up for bar gigs with 100 watt tube amps when 5-10 watts would have sounded awesome.

You could just as easily say that guitar players are both dumb and deaf.

Also, the problem described as "Mr. All-Knowing Smarty Pants Sound Man" is usually the band's fault.

Was there a sound check? Probably not. So it takes a couple of songs to get dialed in. (Surprise!)

And when there IS a sound check, it goes like this:

"Lemme hear the toms."


*tink* *tink *tink*

"Okay, lemme hear the guitar."

*plink* *plink* plink*

"Okay, lemme hear the vocals."

*whisper* *whisper* *whisper*

Showtime:

WHAMMAWHAMMAWHAMMAWHAMMAWHAMMAWHAMMA!!!!!!

The only people I hear constantly complaining about soundmen being completely counterproducgtive morons are guys who virtually never work with soundmen because they are amateurs. Pros know how to keep stage volume down and sound good in the PA.


I agree with jim on this one. ANd i am a guitar player that plays loud. My old amp is only 30 watts but only sounds good at about 1/2 way. Since i have played lound for along time i foud some alternatives to turning down my amp. Fisrt i i use a closed back cab most of the time, so i turn my amp side ways shooting away from the band, and towards a wall where no one is standing. Also I carrie a plexi glass sheild i buikt my self along time ago. I thought if it worked for a drummer, why wouldnt it work for me? And it has inalot of settings, made a big differnece!!


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:08 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:31 am
Posts: 940
Vintage62 wrote:
:D :D
I can see where you're going, but this man here who does most of the sound jobs is so damn incompetent.


Well, I'm not trying to be harsh, just saying there are two sides to every mix.

If this guy's so awful, how come he does all the gigs? is he the only guy in town? If so, buy a PA, go into business and crush him.

:D


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:26 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:33 am
Posts: 139
Well he owns the equipment, I still remember him from when I was at the "guitar school". He used to set stuff up for the end-of-the-year concerts.
But in clubs which have their own equipment (more and more of those, thankfully), he's nowhere to be seen.
Maybe the guy isnt that bad, but every time I see him at a concert / gig, something goes wrong... ( Or maybe it's me??!!? :shock: )


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:13 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:40 pm
Posts: 131
Location: Charlotte, NC
I used to do sound a while back and have to say that most sound guys work wiht the band to get the best sound possible for the band/audience while working within the confines of the sound environment. Each room presents issues for the sound guy. It takes a lot of tweaking throughout the show. I've been to a lot of concerts in my life and can say that the first song or two require adjustments. Even wiht a sound check prior to the show, there are new issues added to the mix once the crowd arrives: additional noise from the crowd, and additional object for sound to bounc eoff of or be absorbed (bodies). There are jsut some venues that you can't mix to perfection.

_________________
I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.
-Kurt Vonnegut


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:33 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:59 am
Posts: 89
Most of my experience with soundmen is in church circles when I was leading my congregations praise band. For most of the time, the sound guy was an amature who kinda fell into the position 'cuz no one else could do it. But for a while, we had a guy who was a professional sound man. He absolutely sucked. He simply did not have a methodical approach to sound engineering. When he did well he did REALLY well. But most of the time it was total chaos.

After he left the position, my best friend ran it. He didn't know much about sound engineering, but he's a smart guy who was willing to be methodical. He and I worked really closely together to make sure everything was smooth and well-communicated. Together we built up the sound team with guys we could trust and who work well together. It was the best time for both the sound crew and the musicians. We had our best-sounding gigs, our happiest musicians, our least-stressful holidays, etc.

As far as the tube amp issue goes, you probably just have an amp that's too big for the gig. Mic'd recording or 'practice' amps are really the best choice for most situations. It makes life better for both the guitarist and the soundman because it gives more flexibility. 100w full-stacks are real impressive, but typically impractical. Heck, there are a lot of venues where 30w combos are too loud!

What we ended up doing at my church was cutting the amps out all together. For the electric guitar and bass we used SansAmp pedals (GT2 and BassDriver, respectively). The drums were from the Roland V-series. Everything went through the PA and Monitors. Much more flexible for everyone. Not that I'm recommending everyone do this; it's great for a Church situation, though.

I know SansAmp pedals aren't tube amps... and nothing's better than a good tube amp. But, dang, SansAmp makes good stuff... and it really clears up some of the hassle.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:05 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:16 am
Posts: 633
Location: Scotland
Gravity Jim wrote:
Actually, neither.

They know a tube amp has to be turned up to sound good. So they wonder why you idiot guitar players keep showing up for bar gigs with 100 watt tube amps when 5-10 watts would have sounded awesome.

You could just as easily say that guitar players are both dumb and deaf.

Also, the problem described as "Mr. All-Knowing Smarty Pants Sound Man" is usually the band's fault.

Was there a sound check? Probably not. So it takes a couple of songs to get dialed in. (Surprise!)

And when there IS a sound check, it goes like this:

"Lemme hear the toms."


*tink* *tink *tink*

"Okay, lemme hear the guitar."

*plink* *plink* plink*

"Okay, lemme hear the vocals."

*whisper* *whisper* *whisper*

Showtime:

WHAMMAWHAMMAWHAMMAWHAMMAWHAMMAWHAMMA!!!!!!

The only people I hear constantly complaining about soundmen being completely counterproducgtive morons are guys who virtually never work with soundmen because they are amateurs. Pros know how to keep stage volume down and sound good in the PA.


Lol I was gonna say exactly the same thing.

Sound guys know what they're doing. Having known many and worked with some and I know they take a butt load of flack that they don't deserve.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: