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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:09 am
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Well... I think you make a really good point but, you left out one very important piece.

Chemistry. I've seen some very good if not great musicians that just don't have the chemistry when they all get together.

Sometimes that sucky guy is the glue that holds it all together.

At least that's what makes me feel bettter...

Ha!!!


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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:59 am
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".... nothing but negatives to report...." Well, I COULD have posted a ton of very true, very positive, GREAT stories and information I've gleaned over the last 40+ years, but then I'd just be bragging..... and what 'help' would any of that be to someone else? I was only minimally involved in some of those situations, yet I've known and witnessed plenty of other musicians who went through (or had to put up with) a lot of that garbage, especially due to the fact that they (like all the rest of us) had bills to pay, had mouths to feed (other than their own) AND had commitments to honor. Who can't tell a story of their own (or somebody they know) that got ripped off by a shyster who sold them a lemon vehicle? Of course, you don't want to be the victim in the story, but in relating it to others, there is every possibility you can save them from the trials of what you had to suffer.... (so WHY is this a bad thing?)
..... and YES, there will be people who don't like what is being revealed, for one reason or another, but the truth can hurt just as much as a lie.... it simply depends on the POV, who you choose to believe and whose lips are still moving even though the song is over. You have to admit, from 'et tu, Brute' to P.T. Barnum, it's been going on a long time..... it isn't as if Watergate was THAT big a surprise, except to the very naive.

Has no one but me known of or heard of an agent who:
1- Yanked a band from a booking for a much higher paying gig (miles away) and gave a BS excuse to the first club, such as: some member of (or in) the band's family had been injured, was deathly sick or died? The equipment truck broke down, one of the musicians in the band has laryngitis, cut their hand, broke their arm, is in the hospital.....etc..... yada, yada.
2- Called a group up to play a job, (usually at the last minute), to fill in for the previous (#1) BS and told them "I'll pay you X money, just come to my office in a couple days." Then the agent has the gall to extract their % fee, while having already been paid double (XX) up front.

There's lots more..... just ask Pete Best...... or (if you could), Brian Jones. We've all heard the glorified success stories, but few, like me or R. Marx have the balls to flip the coin over and take the heat. Besides, any story about "How I made it in the Music Biz" would include as much about what TO do as what NOT to do AND what to avoid. Just like the moon, it's easy to see the face, yet we all know the title of Pink Floyd's greatest selling album. Why deny it? Do you really think that Simon Cowell is the only jerk who CAN'T DO what he sets in judgment of?

To be perfectly honest, I was expecting a few "Have I got a story for you... " kind of replies rather than chides for letting the cat out of the bag. Or: "Yeah, my dog got loose and did his 'duty' on someones lawn.... sorry about that..... Oh? Not your lawn? Well, guess you're the lucky-lotto one, eh?" OK..... but above (or below) it all, one thing's for sure..... unlike our illustrious and notorious government, I'm NOT guilty of any cover-ups.

BTW: Seriously, I'm just as open to a positive story as a warning one. I grew up on all those "... and they lived Happily Ever After" types.... didn't you? I can handle it and I'm sure most others here can as well. There's nothing wrong with a complete map of the moon, be it the familiar light side OR the hidden dark side. Besides, wasn't it the 'dark side' that made Star Wars so popular? Realistically, what is any story that has no trials or tribulations? So.... IF all your experiences in the music biz have been a bowl of cherries, I'd LOVE to hear THAT one! Cut me to the quick and let me know that someone, somewhere out there, somehow, has it far easier than the likes of ....... Paris Hilton. Don't we all just get bored to death and drool? LOL


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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:29 am
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60strat: Thanks for pointing that out.... I'm sure just about everyone has, at some time, worked (or at least jammed) w/ musicians who were a bit (or a LOT) more advanced and THAT can really ignite your fires. Sure, there are those super-talented few who burst out of the gate running far ahead of the crowd, but then it's expected that they draw the best around them like a magnet and rarely, if ever, have to deal with BS. However, let Billy Joel tell you how his B-I-L almost made him bankrupt. Even 'stars' have lots of BS to wade through at times.

I also know it's very true that sometimes a great collection of talent can clash and it's sad when that happens. Personalities tend to supersede our abilities....... so no matter if one is super-gifted but happens to be a jerk OR an average talent but has a character and persona that just makes you warm inside, it all boils down to the music and what its all worth (to you) in the end.


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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:54 pm
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flamekaster wrote:
twangee wrote:
It makes me wonder...which one should I watch tonight? 'This Is Spinal Tap', or 'That Thing You Do'? Maybe both.


I think i will watch the ultimate story of a music legends rise and fall and rise again.........Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story!!!


Oops, I forgot that one! I need to check it out. The Rutles' 'All You Need Is Cash' is a good 'un, too. As far as The Rutles history goes, it's got George Harrison in it! Rumor has it that John Lennon liked it so much he wouldn't give back his preview copy, Ringo Starr supposedly thought it was a little TOO close to home in some places, and Paul McCartney supposedly refuses to comment on it to this day.


Last edited by twangee on Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:59 pm
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60strat wrote:
Well... I think you make a really good point but, you left out one very important piece.

Chemistry. I've seen some very good if not great musicians that just don't have the chemistry when they all get together.

Sometimes that sucky guy is the glue that holds it all together.

At least that's what makes me feel bettter...

Ha!!!


Ah yes, chemistry is important. I remember when I was living in Nashville, I would often see bands that were comprised of all great musicians, however, with all their musical greatness, they could not write decent songs as a band. Chemistry is important, and to me, is sometimes more important than ability as at times I'd much rather deal with a bass player who is a great friend, but can't really play well, than deal with a bass player who can play, but has an ego bigger than the universe. lol.

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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:43 pm
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You are so right and I couldn't agree with the chemistry angle more. I know of a local band that has a monster front man (he replaced the original singer for several years in a MAJOR hit making band), a great drummer, two excellent guitarists and a bass player who does a solo in their show for something like ten minutes. As good as the bassist is, he can't seem to come down off his high horse and play simple when simple is all that's needed. Sometimes 'too much' just washes a song out into mud. There are some incredible musicians who just "can't drive 55".... if you know what I mean. A flurry of notes can sound great in the right place(s) but ALL the time is plain audio ridiculousness. I believe it is a matter of Dynamics, not just with volume, but speed and 'feel' as well. Their are tons of great songs that don't require anyone to zoom in at 300 miles an hour..... or BPM either.


Last edited by Guitarman1117 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:54 pm
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To me the musicians job is to do justice to the song, not the musicians skill set.

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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:01 pm
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crying strat: Again, I agree 100% (this is my shorted post..... EVER! LOL)


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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:55 pm
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Guitarman1117 wrote:
60strat: Thanks for pointing that out.... I'm sure just about everyone has, at some time, worked (or at least jammed) w/ musicians who were a bit (or a LOT) more advanced and THAT can really ignite your fires. Sure, there are those super-talented few who burst out of the gate running far ahead of the crowd, but then it's expected that they draw the best around them like a magnet and rarely, if ever, have to deal with BS. However, let Billy Joel tell you how his B-I-L almost made him bankrupt. Even 'stars' have lots of BS to wade through at times.

I also know it's very true that sometimes a great collection of talent can clash and it's sad when that happens. Personalities tend to supersede our abilities....... so no matter if one is super-gifted but happens to be a jerk OR an average talent but has a character and persona that just makes you warm inside, it all boils down to the music and what its all worth (to you) in the end.


You are soo right!!!!

I have a buddy how plays in a couple of bands who is a great guy and throws me a bone and will play with me once a week and every time we have a (pitty) jam... I walk away with soo much knowledge. But he is a great guy and is very inspiring... Even for my old $@!.... :D


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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:31 pm
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".... I walk away with soo much knowledge.... "
Specifically...... what? Chords, Rhythms? Leads & melody lines? Music Theory? Help me out here.... what is it you learn from him just jammin'?
Please: Impart & clarify..... if you can put it in text. Thanks


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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:52 pm
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Not to sound rude, but I am looking through this string and not finding any new advice. It's all useful, yes; but they MAKE movies about things like this, which was the point of my previous postings on this string. So, what's different here? It's not exactly manna from Heaven, most of this is pretty common knowledge even without the historical references, and NO, it's NOT dependent on watching movies! Plain old common sense seems to be as big a factor as anything. You don't have to be a musician to appreciate, learn, or to even KNOW this stuff, simply working with people will do as far as I'm concerned.


Last edited by twangee on Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 pm
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First off, speaking your mind, honestly, is not rude. You have a right to your opinion, as all the others here and you make a good point. However, it appears that you have knowledge and experience in the same neighborhood as I and are someone who, probably, has been there and done that, whereas my post was aimed at a less experienced bunch who may not have tripped over any wires laying across the stage yet. I'll bet if the two of us traded all our (good & bad) stories, many would echo each other. We might not learn much between us, but I think you could add something as yet unmentioned that others could learn from. How about it?
Besides, I am one who was not gifted with certain insights on human nature, although I've had many suspicions and bad-gut feelings. Therefore, as you can imagine, I'm not glowing with the best version of common sense and been fooled &/or checkmated more than once.

I'll be the first to admit that 'just working with people' teaches a lot to anyone....... the one thing I do know is that musicians who perform for their supper are a totally different breed than weekend warriors.... and I have been both, so I am well aware of the difference..... and it has nothing to do with talent. My entire mentality: focus, outlook, etc. changed from one all-consuming situation to the other less stressful, relaxed and 'do it for fun' attitude. Playing full-time is great and keeps you on top of your game, but the rigors of the road can tilt any ones brain off kilter.

Last (but not least) we know that as much as some movies TRY to be accurate (RAY?) we also know there's none that are 100% reality, even if the heroes-subjects of the film play themselves. (Let It Be?) I was AT the first Woodstock..... the movie may BE reality, but only in part..... a LOT was left out, believe me! (and the 2nd movie didn't add much either)


Last edited by Guitarman1117 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:38 pm
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I agree. I have my 'war stories', too-including a tour in Iraq, AND I qualify for AARP in a couple of years. My point is that life is not just about tripping over cables or being on stage, if that's someone's bag. There's nothing wrong with being a musician, and I've been playing for well over 25 years now-but it doesn't consume me, and it doesn't consume the musicians that I do know to the point that nothing else matters. And the people I know, musicians included, make it a point to NOT let that happen, regardless of profession.


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Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:04 am
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Guitarman1117 wrote:
".... I walk away with soo much knowledge.... "
Specifically...... what? Chords, Rhythms? Leads & melody lines? Music Theory? Help me out here.... what is it you learn from him just jammin'?
Please: Impart & clarify..... if you can put it in text. Thanks


Yeah no problem,

I walk away the intangible stuff that you just can't get with tabs or playing by ear.

For instance I'll figure a song out but when I jam with my buddy, he can show things that make the song more "efficient". Or will give me advice like "... look if you do it this way you can then go here..." It's the kind of out of the box thinking that you wont get from lessons that only talent and experience can bring to the table.

Now let me just clarify one thing. I am probably the sucky guy you are talking about and that is OK. I get it. But the guys are all great guys and they have all told me at one time or another how much the love playing with me because of the friendship, energy and or chemistry.

I know I suck, I don't have an ego and I really just love to play and appreciate the time and way they offer advice, knowledge and answer my questions.

I also kind of think that they are "grooming" me to maybe replace one of the egos in the band. One of them has been hinting around to that fact.

Chris


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Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:27 am
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twangee wrote:
flamekaster wrote:
twangee wrote:
It makes me wonder...which one should I watch tonight? 'This Is Spinal Tap', or 'That Thing You Do'? Maybe both.


I think i will watch the ultimate story of a music legends rise and fall and rise again.........Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story!!!


Oops, I forgot that one! I need to check it out. The Rutles' 'All You Need Is Cash' is a good 'un, too. As far as The Rutles history goes, it's got George Harrison in it! Rumor has it that John Lennon liked it so much he wouldn't give back his preview copy, Ringo Starr supposedly thought it was a little TOO close to home in some places, and Paul McCartney supposedly refuses to comment on it to this day.


twangee it is a funny movie, but be warned there is a full frontal make nudity, that will blind side you. Just wanted to let you and any one else know


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