Mike...sit down. I've got some really, really bad news for you. What you are seeing on TV is the illusion of choice, a propaganda scheme.

Ask yourself one question: If these were honorable men who had any intentions of fixing America's problems (corruption to the core), do you think they'd do the dishonorable thing and mud sling?

Mike, honorable men don't mud sling. So, you can't expect nothing less than more corruption.

So...sorry to break the bad news to you...but...what you are watching is a propaganda show, the illusion of choice, not an election.

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"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a Conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst." J. Edgar Hoover

Thanks.

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Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!

The Conservatives live in the bass forums.

Blaming things on the rich is just a cop out, Obama is not going to make them poor! Who do you think is working for the RICH? Looks like Obama to me!

I copied this from Forbes a fews months back,
Romney’s fundraisers will have to up their game to match Obama’s bundlers, a powerful network that includes billionaires and celebrities alongside career politicians. They’ve contributed significantly to the approximately $250 million the president’s team has so far raised for his re-election campaign, dwarfing Romney’s current war chest of about $75 million.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

Not wanted to get into any political firestorm,I'll just say this,which has always worked for me-thanks to Hunter S. Thompson-Vote for whoever you think will do the least amount of damage.

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

Once again, no relevance to my post. I'm not "blaming" anything on the rich, and I'm not talking about who is contributing to thier campaigns... I'm talking about thier proposed tax policies. Even assuming that Romney's proposal added up, which it doesn't... but let's just say for fair argument that it does.

Romney is proposing a 20% tax rate cut across the board, and making up for the loss in revenue by eliminating deductions, credits, and loopholes throughout the tax code, simplifying things overall, and by reducing the base rates, that supposedly helps "small businesses" keep more of thier capital and hire more workers. The problem with that is that it would not just eliminate deductions for the top income earners, it would also inevitably eliminate at least some of the deductions and credits that effect the middle and lower classes, including the "47%" who according to Romney pay NO taxes. Many of those people are currently barely scraping by, or not even... Yet Romney's tax plan would cause them to have a larger tax burden, while giving an additional $250,000 tax cut (regardless of what he wants to call it) to the top earners in the country.

Obama, on the other hand, wants to keep the tax rates where they are currently, at the "Bush Tax Cut" rates, for the bottom 98% of the country. The top 2% would see thier Bush tax cuts expire, and thier rates would jump a staggering FOUR percent, back to where they were during the Clinton administration, where we saw plenty of economic growth, and had a budget SURPLUS. Not that I think for a second that raising taxes on just the top 2% will magically fix the whole country and get everyone back to work while eliminating the entire deficit, but I do think it's a step in the right direction.

Fixing the economic problems we are facing is going to take time and money, lots of both. Over the past four years, we've gone from a horrendous downward spiral leading up to when Obama took office, through a slowing down and throwing it in reverse period, and now we're finally starting to see things actually turn around and go in the right direction. Bush had us speeding southward down the economic highway at 120 mph... Of course when the new guy took the wheel and slammed on the brakes, it took a little while to stop. (There's a TON of weight in the trunk, known as Congress.) Only once it was stopped could we put it in reverse and start backing up, so we could turn the car around and start heading north again. I see no need to get rid of Obama and put Romney behind the wheel so we can turn right back around and head south again, only this time with the dog strapped to the top of the car.

What would be nice is if Congress would stop screaming "ARE WE THERE YET?!?!?" and actually pull out the map and try to help us find the best way to get where we're going... Some of them may not particularly like the driver, or the way he drives, but we do all want to go to the same place. Let the man drive.

Haha!
Now you're talking!

Thanks Guitslinger!

Peace,
Gridlock

And this is where this thread should have stopped.

Yes it should have

Sorry, I'll stop now, unless my post gets quoted and replied to with unrelated rhetoric again, LOL...

I'm used to another guitar forum I post at normally, where we can usually have adult conversations about things like politics and religion without it spiraling into childish name-calling and tantrum throwing. I think so far, this thread has done the same thing... Nobody is getting out of hand or beligerant, we're just stating our cases and voicing our opinions, which I personally think is healthy. Some of my closest friends are hardcore conservatives, and we often have very spirited debates about politics online... but we still have healthy friendships afterwards. I don't see anything wrong with a good discussion now and then, as long as it stays civil. I look at online forums as a place to discuss things with people I consider friends, or at least casual accquaintances with common interests. Granted, there's a Fender logo at the top of the page, but when I hang out with my guitar playing friends in real life, we don't always talk about just guitars, even if we're standing in a guitar store.

I may disagree with cvilleira on politics, but I have no qualms with him on a personal level, even though I don't know him. Hopefully he feels the same, and we're just having a conversation about something very important that is coming up in our country in a few weeks, something which we both obviously feel strongly about. I enjoy things like that... almost as much as I enjoy playing music. The discussion would probably be far more interesting if more of you were posting your own thoughts on the issue, rather than being all "ooh, we shouldn't be talking about this, it's going to get ugly..." If there were even half as many out-of-line posts in this thread as there are posts PREDICTING how out-of-hand it is inevitably going to get, it would be locked already, I'm sure.

I come to these forums for a little bit more than "Man, I love my Jazz Bass, let me talk about why again" or "Who wants to see thirty-eight more pics of my new Telecaster?" If it's intended to be a true "online community", one should occasionally allow, and even expect, some off-topic threads now and then, even the occasional "hot button" topic such as this... especially in the "Lounge" section. If you don't think you can post about such topics without getting overly angry and feeling the need to flex some non-existant "interweb muscle", just skip the thread. Let those who wish to participate in a civil discussion do so. I'm actually more offended by the "we shouldn't talk about this" and "this should be locked" posts than I would be if I was being personally attacked for supporting Obama. But, whatever. If that's how this place rolls, well then... when in Rome...

So, I made some cosmetic mods to my Geddy Lee bass. Who wants to see pics?

Bush sure didn't do much good to help things but you must admit the economy failure we have today was caused by the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 done by Republicans and signed by Clinton aadd to that Clintons Community Reinvestment Act changes. in 2005 Bush attempted to change the CRA rules and they where stop by the Dems. in congress saying it would harm low income people and communities. They all seen this coming and failed, the Fed Reserve told them earlier in 2003
CRE did nothing but bring on predatory lending to those who would never qualify for loans forcing goals to be made. Fannie May and Freddie Mac where prodded along to back these.

Commercial banks and Insurance companies and Investment banks should never been allowed to merge. Created to help Citcorp when they wanted to merge in 1998 with Smith Barney and Travlers. A Boondogle!

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

Honestly, I didn't really start paying a whole lot of attention until Bush's second term, so I don't know about the first part of your post, but I can absolutely agree that the banks shouldn't have been allowed to merge like they did.

I do honestly think that Obama understands that, and is working to fix the problem. We knew four years ago that it would take more than one term to fix things completely, but overall things are moving in the right direction. I don't believe that what Romney is proposing would be a bad move, changing course mid-stream. If things haven't gotten much better by 2016, I might vote republican myself... But I'm confident that Obama will make much more progress in the next four years, if we give him the chance.

I know that politics can be a very sensitive issue. The majority of people that come here come to talk about guitars and would rather not see a bunch of people slinging mud at each other over such topics. I also realize that most want this thread to die off, and I will let it be. But, before I do I want to propose something.

I thought this might make things fun. No animosity. No hurt feelings or getting mad. Just a little contest in the spirit of the election season.

If President Oboma wins, I will end my account and start over with the name "ObamaMan" or "yourname-wasRight". Your choice. For 1 year.
If Romney wins you will start over with a new name of "RomneyMan". For at least 1 year.

Any takers??? If you can't have fun with this don't agree to it, I'm not looking to make people mad.

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My ability to spell is in direct proportion to the amount of coffee I've had.

Thanx Matt I don't think you need to get that outrageous lol. I've always believed that if you are interested in something or want to know about something you ask. You ask people whose opinions you respect and can rely on for honest answers. I have also come to the conclusion that how you live your life IS political whether you're a right wing conservative, a libertarian,left wing socialist, or an anarchist it is how you live your live and make your decisions. I am interested in the politics of America, it's a great country....it's the birthplace of Muddy Waters, MLK, RFK, Dwight Eisenhower, Abe Lincoln and millions of more good and great people. It's also the birthplace of John Wayne Gacy, Lawrence Welk, and the Pet Rock. So to me it's an enigma, an interesting one that I've had a love/hate relationship with all of my life. So I apologize to those who do not believe this is a public forum worthy of positive discussion and debate on the state of affairs in your great nation. Like I said my grandad was right on when he told me it takes both wings for a bird to fly, and I believe the time is at hand when everyone needs to take that tiny bit of wisdom to heart. Sorry if I didn't mention Leo Fender or what my favourite settings are on my DRRI.

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Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancin'

Man, do everyone a favor and leave the politics out of the forum.
I hate to sound bitter, but I come to this forum to talk and read about... ya know... guitar related things??? Hello? Not what the self-proclaimed political experts have to say regarding American Civics