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Post subject: Re: Today's New York Times Fender article
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:45 am
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Many great comments here.

Myself, I think they should do what they do best, guitars and amps and divest themselves of the the other stuff they acquired with the KMC Music purchase.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaman_Music_Corporation

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Post subject: Re: Today's New York Times Fender article
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:24 am
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RCB-CA-USA wrote:
If I were Fender, I'd blow everything out the door this holiday season and start the New Year off with a clean slate. Whatever's leftover, donate it to impoverished countries. Then, fervently build a new economy of jobs through music based on relentless, timeless perfection at an affordable price.



The funniest thing I have read all day!

Having been to and lived in "impoverished countries", the last thing they want are Road Worn Teles, Deluxe Player Strats, American Special P Basses, or anything else Fender makes... 95 per cent of the populace are busy trying to get enough food and water to eat and survive. Four percent are the bureaucratic class making things run. The rulers are too busy shopping at Versace, Hermes, buying Breguet time pieces, or arms to repress their peoples. They don't want a bunch of Excaliber amps that won't run on their electrical grid, even if they had the money to buy electricity.

In what parallel M theory universe can a "new economy of jobs through music..." be built in? It certainly isn't in this one. Raw materials, labor, energy, insurance, logistic trains, etc. all cost money and plenty of it. Even if Canada donated ash and maple, if Madagascar donated rosewood, even if luthiers all took a vow of poverty and moved to Corona... you can not base a multi-national company on the economic theories of naive flower children, circa 1966. The world does not work that way.

Quality in any material good costs money. It always has. Why do you expect others, either individually as employees or collectively as a company, to sacrifice the reward of their labors, so that your instruments cost you less?

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Post subject: Re: Today's New York Times Fender article
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:57 am
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seismic wrote:
RCB-CA-USA wrote:
If I were Fender, I'd blow everything out the door this holiday season and start the New Year off with a clean slate. Whatever's leftover, donate it to impoverished countries. Then, fervently build a new economy of jobs through music based on relentless, timeless perfection at an affordable price.



The funniest thing I have read all day!

Having been to and lived in "impoverished countries", the last thing they want are Road Worn Teles, Deluxe Player Strats, American Special P Basses, or anything else Fender makes... 95 per cent of the populace are busy trying to get enough food and water to eat and survive. Four percent are the bureaucratic class making things run. The rulers are too busy shopping at Versace, Hermes, buying Breguet time pieces, or arms to repress their peoples. They don't want a bunch of Excaliber amps that won't run on their electrical grid, even if they had the money to buy electricity.

In what parallel M theory universe can a "new economy of jobs through music..." be built in? It certainly isn't in this one. Raw materials, labor, energy, insurance, logistic trains, etc. all cost money and plenty of it. Even if Canada donated ash and maple, if Madagascar donated rosewood, even if luthiers all took a vow of poverty and moved to Corona... you can not base a multi-national company on the economic theories of naive flower children, circa 1966. The world does not work that way.

Quality in any material good costs money. It always has. Why do you expect others, either individually as employees or collectively as a company, to sacrifice the reward of their labors, so that your instruments cost you less?


1. I didn't say ravaged and antiquated countries. What you are describing is a ravaged, antiquated, hell-hole of oppression. An impoverished country would be a country like Mexico. Their country has the electrical grid and populace to embrace such a gift. Though many Fender instruments are manufactured in Mexico, the majority of people cannot afford to purchase the instruments manufactured in their own country! And, there are many more countries like Mexico.

2. New economies of jobs through music? If Fender offered DIY kits, luthiers who are out of work would be able to get back to work assisting and teaching players to build custom Fender guitars instead of Fender and Guitar Center funneling massive amounts of cash to investors and banks that send the money out of the country instead of investing it in the US infrastructure and music industry.

3. Where are people going to paint their DIY guitars...? ...hmmm...who'd like to open up a shop where you can rent space and equipment to properly paint guitars?

3. If Fender got involved in getting music classes back into elementary, middle, and high schools, there would most certainly be a dramatic increase in sales -- and a massive demand for music teachers.

I stand firmly by my statements!

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Post subject: Re: Today's New York Times Fender article
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:55 am
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Why does every thread where RCB-CA-USA writes end up in a dead end?

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Post subject: Re: Today's New York Times Fender article
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:27 pm
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Amerigo wrote:
Why does every thread where RCB-CA-USA writes end up in a dead end?

Where's the dead end here?

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Post subject: Re: Today's New York Times Fender article
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:35 pm
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RCB-CA-USA wrote:
Amerigo wrote:
Why does every thread where RCB-CA-USA writes end up in a dead end?

Where's the dead end here?


Yeah, that's what I thought. Pretty dark, isn't it?

Cheers

David

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Post subject: Re: Today's New York Times Fender article
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:38 pm
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(1.) I didn't say ravaged and antiquated countries. What you are describing is a ravaged, antiquated, hell-hole of oppression. An impoverished country would be a country like Mexico. Their country has the electrical grid and populace to embrace such a gift. Though many Fender instruments are manufactured in Mexico, the majority of people cannot afford to purchase the instruments manufactured in their own country! And, there are many more countries like Mexico.

.... If indeed Mexico is as impoverished as you state, the issue lies with an inept government, a law enforcement system rife with corruption, a degrading problem with an immense illegal drug commerce and many infrastructural issues which has basically stunted Mexico's pace of being on equal footing with it's northern neighbor....That being said I seriously doubt that the important issue to mexican people challenged with a cost of living and ways to pay for subsistence are at all concerned with a Luxury item which an electric guitar is.....People who live in homes without modern day conveniences such as electricity and running water don't fantasize about ordering a Standard Stratocaster.....They instead fantasize and strive to succeed in attaining dignity as valuable human beings, not rock stars.... :roll:

(2.) New economies of jobs through music? If Fender offered DIY kits, luthiers who are out of work would be able to get back to work assisting and teaching players to build custom Fender guitars instead of Fender and Guitar Center funneling massive amounts of cash to investors and banks that send the money out of the country instead of investing it in the US infrastructure and music industry.

Who are you exactly refering to as out of work luthiers..... :? :?: The one's I know are extremely busy since there is such a small number of " Luthiers " which by definition is a skilled craftsman capable of creating various musical instruments from material stock, not from pre manufactured kits.. You cannot make/create a Custom Shop quality guitar from a kit, simply because the parts are precut to size and Custom means made to order...
Fender provides us with excellent instruments at various price points. Fender and Guitar Center are not the same company, if you have a problem with Guitar Center you might want to speak with Bain Capital, or perhaps you could send Romney an E-mail before the debate tonight..... :wink:


(3.) If Fender got involved in getting music classes back into elementary, middle, and high schools, there would most certainly be a dramatic increase in sales -- and a massive demand for music teachers.

Music Education in schools is a problem with local and state governments and even though there are large numbers of Fender musical instruments available, it does not seem to be a reason for music education in schools.....pity...Take the arts away and any form of physical exercise and what you have left is a pitiful example of education... :?

Not sure where you are seeing the world from but it's an obtuse view which is confusing to say the least...

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Post subject: Re: Today's New York Times Fender article
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:29 pm
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Gloomy article! This was the second time I was reminded of how Bain Capital has GC by the cojones. Something inside tells me the mighty electric will rise out of the ashes and soar once again. I was at a birthday party last Saturday and heard some really bad music. It was all hippy hoppy and rappy crappy! I do not have an attitude to any form of music as a rule but, after an hour of listening to this rubbish, I felf a bit ill.


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Post subject: Re: Today's New York Times Fender article
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:31 am
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53magnatone wrote:
(1.) I didn't say ravaged and antiquated countries.

It's what you described!

(2.) Who are you exactly refering to as out of work luthiers..... :? :?: The one's I know are extremely busy since there is such a small number...

Thank you for making my point.

Fender provides us with excellent instruments at various price points.

I've had many bad experiences with Fender products including the Squier line during factory disputes and the Mustang V head that well...is junk in my book due to penny pinching which rendered the V too fragile for the real world scenario...one good knock to any of the cable holes...done, too many trade-offs to eek out a tone, bad.

Outside of the junky vibrato and tuners, I thoroughly enjoy my Highway One Strat, however -- THANK YOU FENDER!!!


Fender and Guitar Center are not the same company, ...

No duh. But, they are heavily intertwined.

if you have a problem with Guitar Center you might want to speak with Bain Capital, or perhaps you could send Romney an E-mail before the debate tonight..... :wink:

I don't have a problem with Guitar Center, but I have experienced major problems with Guitar Center employees offering me pennies on the dollar for valuable instruments and on one occasion, an employee attempted to blatantly rip me off via an act of deception, on another occasion I was blatantly lied to over the phone about the condition of a guitar.

I don't need to speak to Bain Capital nor Romney -- they're adults now and they know full and well what they are doing. I doubt there is anything I could do to get them on the right track.


(3.) Music Education in schools is a problem with local and state governments...

The community is a partnership between our creator, the government, businesses, and the individual. It is my humble opinion Fender needs to get involved in putting music back into the curriculum or lose their present and future client base.

Take the arts away and ...what you have left is a pitiful example of education... :?

Yes.

"Something inside tells me the mighty electric will rise out of the ashes and soar once again." JACKSTRAT

"We dance for laughter, we dance for tears, we dance for madness, we dance for fears, we dance for hopes, we dance for screams, we are the dancers, we create the dreams.”

“Music speaks what cannot be expressed, soothes the mind and gives it rest, heals the heart and makes it whole, flows from heaven to the soul.”

"Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything.” Plato

And, "Music is the universal language of mankind.” Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

World peace *will* come through music!


Not sure where you are seeing the world from but it's an obtuse view which is confusing to say the least...

You probably haven't found Godhead yet. I'm seeing life through Godhead. What can I do to help you find Godhead so that you are not so confused???

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Last edited by RCB-CA-USA on Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Today's New York Times Fender article
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:47 am
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JACSTRAT wrote:
Gloomy article! This was the second time I was reminded of how Bain Capital has GC by the cojones. Something inside tells me the mighty electric will rise out of the ashes and soar once again. I was at a birthday party last Saturday and heard some really bad music. It was all hippy hoppy and rappy crappy! I do not have an attitude to any form of music as a rule but, after an hour of listening to this rubbish, I felf a bit ill.


Sorry you had to deal with that, seems that's all you hear now. I feel it pollutes me, I walk away, change the channel, roll up my window... whatever it takes to prevent the infection :)


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