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Post subject: So many chords, which is the "right" one?
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:18 am
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I've been playing for about 6 years, although I'm still far from being a pro. I had about 6 months of formal lessons, got tips from others, but mostly learned by way of books, Youtube, Ultimate Guitar, etc..

Our music director at church encouraged me to come practice with our church band, and I'd love to play with the some day. The first rude awakening was looking at the chords on the music and realizing I had never even heard of a C2 or an A2 chord. Then other chords started showing up that I had to admit not knowing off the top of my head; Am7, Gsus4, C#m, and a few others. Fortunately, it was only practice, and I don't think I did too badly for never having seen the music before, and nobody gave me any dirty looks. :lol: I took the music home, looked up the missing chords, and by that same evening I was playing through some of the pieces that l was clueless on just that morning.

The question that I wondered was before too long I noticed that the A, E, and D chords the others were playing were the Barre versions. Once I learned the C#m chord after I got home, I realized switching between those and C#m would be less intimidating using Barre chords, although I got by just doing the first fret versions of them. How does one figure out the "right" version of a chord to play, seeing as how I got online and found some chords that could be played 10 different ways :shock: ?

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Post subject: Re: So many chords, which is the "right" one?
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:53 am
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Great question, but I think it all depends on context.

If you're trying to learn a cover song, for example, listen carefullly to passages where you can clearly hear a chord progression. Once you know the basic key and root of each chord, listen repeatedly, and try to identify each note of the chord and find it on the guitar. Sounds obvious, but if you're really going to figure out a unique voicing and make the song sound right, repeatedly listenings, searching for one note at a time, can be the key.

If you're playing in a church or band ensemble with a lot of competing instrumentation, consider diving into sparsely constructed triads (chords with just three notes, usually played on the top end). These allow you to avoid sonic mush that can happen when horns, bass, keyboards, are competing for a spot in a narrow sonic spectrum.

If you're just learning material for fun... it doesn't really matter. Go for what's most comfortable. Often this is a trade off between what sounds best and what your playing abilities allow you to perform smoothly.

Oh... and chord charts are a great resource. Lots are available for iPad and iPod now, too.


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Post subject: Re: So many chords, which is the "right" one?
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:51 am
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If you get a little big of theory knowledge behind you, you can work how to play out unfamiliar chords from their names, which is handy for situations like what you mentioned.

When I'm trying to figure out the best chord shape to use in specific songs I just try use the one which allows me to keep as many of my fingers where they already were, if that makes any sense outside of my head. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: So many chords, which is the "right" one?
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:11 am
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Tochai wrote:
If you get a little big of theory knowledge behind you, you can work how to play out unfamiliar chords from their names, which is handy for situations like what you mentioned.

When I'm trying to figure out the best chord shape to use in specific songs I just try use the one which allows me to keep as many of my fingers where they already were, if that makes any sense outside of my head. :lol:



yep. Theory is key. Learning chord theory will help you more then you can probably imagine. I'm always stunned when working with guitarists who say they've never worked with a bassist who knew theory. As the foundation of music imo it's imperative for your bassist to know not only what is happening and where the song is going, but why.

As far as which shape or position to use to play a chord, that generally depends on the song you are trying to play and the arrangement you are working with.

For instance, Our rhythm guitar player had to bust his butt this past week to learn a different position for Em7 then the one he already knew. We are covering "Over You" by Miranda Lambert and the position he knew just didn't sound right. (Basically playing it higher making it move against the flow of the song) So he put the time in to get it right.

Most of the time when "covering" songs we just do them in our own style and not worry about it. However, as that song is very similar to our sound and our lead guitar player is already chording way up the neck to give counter movement. It was imperative for him to learn the correct position for the song.

Sometimes a chord needs to be played as a cowboy chord to give the song the feel it needs. Sometimes barre chords are too forceful. Sometimes cowboy chords are too thin. This is also where capos and other techniques of building arrangements come in. When working with multiple guitars it's a cool way to get an even "fuller" sound, yet not turn everything into sludge. The stuff that comes out of Nashville, and the Motown stuff are great places to look for this. Ever wonder why you can see the Eagles play with 4 guitar players, yet it doesn't sound like a mess?

In the end, start out slow playing what you can and instead of looking at these different positions as things that irritate you and cause you to stumble. Try to look at them as opportunities to add more weapons to your arsenal, or words to your vocabulary. Once you start getting into theory, and learning why and where to apply these different takes on chords you will gain insight into things like composition, and building arrangements. Which can take you from being a guitarist into being a songwriter and/or band leader.

Take your time with it, and enjoy the ride. Good luck!

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Post subject: Re: So many chords, which is the "right" one?
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:42 am
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Any chord you can name has numerous ways to play it. I usually use whichever one is closest to my current position on the board or one which will help me to step more easily into the next one such as walking up and down the board. On occaision I will choose a version soley for it's particular voice. There are lots of ways to play an A major chord but they don't all have the same voice.

Since it is apparent from your question that you are not yet all that proficient I can offer a small piece of advise. When you are learning and you're in a live situation like playing on a worship team you may find yourself needing to fudge your way through some of the chords. Perhaps not playing the correct chord or maybe not playing the whole thing. Let's look at Am7 for example, which is one you listed. The most important thing is to make sure you do not substitute a major for a minor or vise versa. You can leave out the 7th, just play an Am and you'll still be close enough that you don't sound too wonky but you can't just play A major or A7. That would be cacophonous. Majors and minors ... most important when fudging.

As has been said, a little chord theory might be helpful.

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Post subject: Re: So many chords, which is the "right" one?
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:27 pm
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I always use cheater chords for covers. I call it "Creativity" but honestly, I'm lazy.



:shock:

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Post subject: Re: So many chords, which is the "right" one?
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:40 pm
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Your "first 3 fret" chords use the nut as the bar.
Figure out the 3-finger chords using middle, ring, and pinky.
Use the musical alphabet to move the chord up the neck with your index finger as the nut (bar... or barre as some here refer to it).
For example:
Am becomes A#(Bb)m, Bm, Cm, C#(Db)m, Dm, D#(Eb)m, Em, Fm, F#(Gb)m, Gm, G#(Ab)m, Am - as you move up the neck 1 fret at a time.
You'll get the hang of it 8)

Theory in a nutshell:
Songs are usually constructed using the "do-re-mi of chords".
(Another) for example:
"do-re-mi" in the key of "C" is:
C (do), D (re), E (mi), F (fa), G (so), A (la), B (ti), C (do)
Played out in a chord progression would be:
C major, D minor, E minor, F major, G7, A minor, B diminished, C major.
If you write a song in the key of C (or Am which is the relative minor to C) you can throw any of those chords into the song and it will fit nicely.

If you're learning a song and can't figure out what chord they're using at the bridge or some other part of the song, first determine what key the song is in. Using the major scale of that key, try any of the 7 different chords in the afore-mentioned progression, major, minor, minor,major, dominant 7, minor, diminished and it'll more than likely be one of them.

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Post subject: Re: So many chords, which is the "right" one?
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:21 pm
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FrankieTheKid wrote:
Your "first 3 fret" chords use the nut as the bar.
Figure out the 3-finger chords using middle, ring, and pinky.
Use the musical alphabet to move the chord up the neck with your index finger as the nut (bar... or barre as some here refer to it).
For example:
Am becomes A#(Bb)m, Bm, Cm, C#(Db)m, Dm, D#(Eb)m, Em, Fm, F#(Gb)m, Gm, G#(Ab)m, Am - as you move up the neck 1 fret at a time.
You'll get the hang of it 8)

Theory in a nutshell:
Songs are usually constructed using the "do-re-mi of chords".
(Another) for example:
"do-re-mi" in the key of "C" is:
C (do), D (re), E (mi), F (fa), G (so), A (la), B (ti), C (do)
Played out in a chord progression would be:
C major, D minor, E minor, F major, G7, A minor, B diminished, C major.
If you write a song in the key of C (or Am which is the relative minor to C) you can throw any of those chords into the song and it will fit nicely.

If you're learning a song and can't figure out what chord they're using at the bridge or some other part of the song, first determine what key the song is in. Using the major scale of that key, try any of the 7 different chords in the afore-mentioned progression, major, minor, minor,major, dominant 7, minor, diminished and it'll more than likely be one of them.


Yes, I know how Barre chords work, I have books that describe it very well. I had a "well, duh" moment after I got home from my first practice and realized C#m should have been easy to figure out the Barre chord since I knew Am. Had another "Well, duh" when I realized I already knew the fingering for it from a guitar tab for The Who's "I Can't Explain", and just hadn't realized that it was C#m. :oops:

My question was if you have a printed piece of music that just shows the names of the chords, how does one determine which of the multiple fingerings to use? Case in point, one of the pieces our music director was using Barre chords to play the A, D, and E major chords further down the neck, and another piece he just used the first fret versions.

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Post subject: Re: So many chords, which is the "right" one?
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:36 pm
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Just jam.

http://www.jguitar.com/chord?root=C%23&chord=Minor

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Post subject: Re: So many chords, which is the "right" one?
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:45 pm
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sparkydave wrote:
My question was if you have a printed piece of music that just shows the names of the chords, how does one determine which of the multiple fingerings to use? Case in point, one of the pieces our music director was using Barre chords to play the A, D, and E major chords further down the neck, and another piece he just used the first fret versions.

That's a good question. Sometimes, the chart will have all the chord diagrams in boxes at the beginning... if that's not the case, then it's pretty much up to you. Occasionally you will see a small roman numeral in parentheses with a chord name, indicating position... i.e. "Em (VII)" would indicate an Em chord played as an Am shape, barred at the 7th fret... But if there are no boxes at the top of the page, nor any position markings with the chord name, then it's been left up to you as the guitarist to find the best position for the chord in the context of the song. Make the decision based on what's comfortable for you fingering wise, what's easiest to get to from the last chord, and what sounds the best with what the rest of the band is playing. It can be trial and error, but as long as you're playing the right chord as far as notes go, which position you play it in really doesn't matter but so much. I find it to be a good idea to learn at least 3 voicings of most of the standard chords... one down in the first four frets, one somewhere in the middle of the neck, and one up near the 12th fret, generally an octave above the first one. That way, you can jump between which grouping of notes fits the best. You basically have a "lo, mid, and hi" version at that point. :D


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Post subject: Re: So many chords, which is the "right" one?
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:04 am
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My personel rule of thumbs when playing in multiple guitar situations is to avoid duplicating what the other guitarist is doing ...so say they're playing chunka-chunka style barre chords,I'll arppegiate an open chord or a partial or triad...just so things don't turn into mush. The other is to try and play at a different position on the fretboard and lastly try to play something that is different tonaly like with the barre chord scenario try playing triads with just up strokes against them. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: So many chords, which is the "right" one?
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:28 pm
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sparkydave wrote:
My question was if you have a printed piece of music that just shows the names of the chords, how does one determine which of the multiple fingerings to use? Case in point, one of the pieces our music director was using Barre chords to play the A, D, and E major chords further down the neck, and another piece he just used the first fret versions.


As many here have mentioned, it depends on what you're doing with the song.
If it's in a "group" setting, mush has to be avoided at all costs. If there's a rhythm guitarist strumming chords on the first three frets, you don't want to be doing the same thing. Find the same chord at a higher register and pick rather than strum... or visa versa.
Making songs sound good all the way through also has much to do with dynamics. If a song is 4 verses long and all the verses are played the same way, it sounds boring by the end. Do nothing on the first verse, hammer like crazy on the second, back off with some light arpeggios on the third, and either hammer away on the last one, or maybe have the lead vocalist sing it solo with just a little ride cymbal and bass guitar on the last one... leave 'em drueling :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: So many chords, which is the "right" one?
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:30 pm
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I love harmony and have always worked hardest on learning chords.

With that said, I'm a little embarrassed. What would a "C2" chord be? I've never encountered that nomenclature. I've heard of a "sus2" before... and although that isn't standard nomenclature, to my knowledge at least, I can understand it. Somebody please educate me :oops: .

By the way, there are SO many ways to play chords on the guitar. I mean, you can literally play the same exact chord (voicing & pitch, etc.) on different places on the neck. I usually shoot for the easiest way to play, which to me means the least amount of movement between chords. If there isn't a whole lot going on, then the best spot tonally will take the cake.

As far as chord charts are concerned, I've never used one. Theory, has taught me a lot. Although I originally would have preferred learning the piano, I'm currently grateful that I ended up with a guitar. It's a great instrument to learn theory on, but you have to do a lot of exploration on your own.

Regarding the Am7 in your first post-- I would be inclined to play that on the e, B, and G strings first of all. Two examples being playing the 5th fret on all or the 12th, 13th, and 12th frets on the aforementioned strings, respectively.

Of course knowing from which chords those shapes are derived can give you something to work with whether you want to make some harmonic or even rhythmic variations. For example, the "5th fret on all three strings example" of mine would be derived from an E-shape (which is a bar chord shape with the root on the E string). Likewise, my second example (12th, 13th, & 12th) would be derived from a C shape (which I often view the same as a D shape).

If you can visualize those shapes while you play, then there's no reason you can't jump up a string or two!
That is a quick way to get different inversions, should your first voicing clash with another instrument. Similarly, simplifying chords like that can actually allow you to get deep into harmony-- as counter-intuitive as that sounds! (refer to my example of using an inverted C triad over an Am7 chord)

Hope that helps. Best of luck!


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Post subject: Re: So many chords, which is the "right" one?
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:27 pm
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C2 and Csus2 are the same thing. the "2" means you add the "re" or 2nd note in the C major scale to the triad.
Sus 4 means you add "fa" or 4th note in the scale.
Maj7 you add the 7th "ti".
Dominant 7 or "C7" for example you flat the 7th, so Cmaj 7 has a B in it, C7 has Bb.
The number in whatever the chord name incdicates what note (or notes) in the scale is/are added to the triad.

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Post subject: Re: So many chords, which is the "right" one?
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:47 pm
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C2 (or C2sus)

E - 3
B - 3
G - 5
D - 5
A - 3
E - X

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