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Post subject: Guitar E-E & B-B Tuning * B-C Bass Tuning * HELP with THEORY
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:12 am
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I just purchased a baritone guitar. Have questions about tunings.
B-B tuning is the baritone's most popular tuning.

The following tunings are the tunings I've known:
Four String Bass = EADG
Six String Guitar = EADGBE

The following tuning is for my new Baritone Guitar
is what I will have to begin to study:
Six String Baritone = BEADF#B


Investigated further and noticed two (2) tunings
do not fit into the "flow of EADGBE" style tunings:

Four String Bass = EADG
Five String Bass = BEADG
Six String Bass = BEADGC
. . . . why "C" instead of "B" :?:
Six String Guitar = EADGBE
Six String Baritone = BEADF#B
. . . . why "F#" instead of "G" :?:
Seven String Guitar = BEADGBE



My Big Questions:
After searching that the B-C six-string bass tuning is popular:

Why is the six-string Baritone and the six string Bass odd balls?

. . . . and, since both the baritone and 6-string Bass both start in "B",
why are both the six string Bass & Baritone NOT in the same tuning?

Thanks for explaining the "theory" behind the differences
with the baritone guitar and the six-string bass guitar.
Thanks for the theory lesson. Toppscore
:)






My new baritone guitar is in transit and will arrive soon.
Guessing it will be tuned to B-B and will be at bar chord "E" on the fifth fret.
I'm hoping to fall in love with the Rockabilly, Surf and Southwestern tone possibilities.

ESP-LTD HB-300 BARITONE
27" scale
24 frets
B-B 6-strings
Bound Neck
2 HB Duncan Humbuckers
TOM Tune-O-Matic Bridge



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Last edited by Toppscore on Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Guitar E-E & B-B Tuning * B-C Bass Tuning * HELP with TH
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:29 am
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Posts: 1921
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Toppscore wrote:
I just purchased a baritone guitar. Have questions about tunings.
B-B tuning is the baritone's most popular tuning.

The following tunings are the tunings I've known:
Four String Bass = EADG
Six String Guitar = EADGBE

The following tuning is for my new Baritone Guitar
is what I will have to begin to study:
Six String Baritone = BEADF#B


Investigated further and noticed two (2) tunings
do not fit into the "flow of EADGBE" style tunings:

Four String Bass = EADG
Five String Bass = BEADG
Six String Bass = BEADGC
. . . . why "C" instead of "B" :?:
Six String Guitar = EADGBE
Six String Baritone = BEADF#B
. . . . why "F#" instead of "G" :?:
Seven String Guitar = BEADGBE



My Big Questions:
After searching that the B-C six-string bass tuning is popular:

Why is the six-string Baritone and the six string Bass odd balls?

. . . . and, since both the baritone and 6-string Bass both start in "B",
why are both the six string Bass & Baritone NOT in the same tuning?

Thanks for explaining the "theory" behind the differences
with the baritone guitar and the six-string bass guitar.
Thanks for the theory lesson. Toppscore
:)



Hmmm...an interesting question. I'm sure there's a solid reason for it. However, it does seem odd that the 6 string Bass would be tuned completely to 5ths when both the 6 string Baritone and Spanish guitar utilize an off tuning for one string. Can't wait to hear the answer. It might be something as simple as bassists are used to the 5th tuning pattern and it would make less sense for them to learn to play a bass like a big guitar. I'd be interested to see if most guitarists who move to a six string bass actually tune it as a low end guitar instead of the B-C tuning.

:?

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Post subject: Re: Guitar E-E & B-B Tuning * B-C Bass Tuning * HELP with TH
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:10 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
It might be something as simple as bassists are used to the 5th tuning pattern and it would make less sense for them to learn to play a bass like a big guitar.

:?

I think that's probably what it is. Since bass players aren't likely to be playing full chords there isn't really a point in having one string a third higher than the last when the others are in 4ths.

As for BEADF#B, that's exactly the same as EADGBE but a fifth lower, if the F# was a G then guitarists would have to learn different chord shapes for playing a baritone.

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Post subject: Re: Guitar E-E & B-B Tuning * B-C Bass Tuning * HELP with TH
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:12 am
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Posts: 2337
TheKingofPain wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
I just purchased a baritone guitar. Have questions about tunings.
B-B tuning is the baritone's most popular tuning.

The following tunings are the tunings I've known:
Four String Bass = EADG
Six String Guitar = EADGBE

The following tuning is for my new Baritone Guitar
is what I will have to begin to study:
Six String Baritone = BEADF#B


Investigated further and noticed two (2) tunings
do not fit into the "flow of EADGBE" style tunings:

Four String Bass = EADG
Five String Bass = BEADG
Six String Bass = BEADGC
. . . . why "C" instead of "B" :?:
Six String Guitar = EADGBE
Six String Baritone = BEADF#B
. . . . why "F#" instead of "G" :?:
Seven String Guitar = BEADGBE



My Big Questions:
After searching that the B-C six-string bass tuning is popular:

Why is the six-string Baritone and the six string Bass odd balls?

. . . . and, since both the baritone and 6-string Bass both start in "B",
why are both the six string Bass & Baritone NOT in the same tuning?

Thanks for explaining the "theory" behind the differences
with the baritone guitar and the six-string bass guitar.
Thanks for the theory lesson. Toppscore
:)


Hmmm...an interesting question. I'm sure there's a solid reason for it. However, it does seem odd that the 6 string Bass would be tuned completely to 5ths when both the 6 string Baritone and Spanish guitar utilize an off tuning for one string. Can't wait to hear the answer. It might be something as simple as bassists are used to the 5th tuning pattern and it would make less sense for them to learn to play a bass like a big guitar. I'd be interested to see if most guitarists who move to a six string bass actually tune it as a low end guitar instead of the B-C tuning. :?


I am seriously thinking "Peter Gunn" "Perry Mason" or "Pink Panther Theme Music"
for this mystery :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Guitar E-E & B-B Tuning * B-C Bass Tuning * HELP with TH
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:20 am
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Tochai wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
It might be something as simple as bassists are used to the 5th tuning pattern and it would make less sense for them to learn to play a bass like a big guitar.

:?

I think that's probably what it is. Since bass players aren't likely to be playing full chords there isn't really a point in having one string a third higher than the last when the others are in 4ths.

As for BEADF#B, that's exactly the same as EADGBE but a fifth lower, if the F# was a G then guitarists would have to learn different chord shapes for playing a baritone.



I think you've nailed it. Lack of needing to chord for strumming purposes is the best explanation. Well said.

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Post subject: Re: Guitar E-E & B-B Tuning * B-C Bass Tuning * HELP with TH
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:41 am
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Tochai wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
It might be something as simple as bassists are used to the 5th tuning pattern and it would make less sense for them to learn to play a bass like a big guitar. :?

I think that's probably what it is. Since bass players aren't likely to be playing full chords there isn't really a point in having one string a third higher than the last when the others are in 4ths.

As for BEADF#B, that's exactly the same as EADGBE but a fifth lower, if the F# was a G then guitarists would have to learn different chord shapes for playing a baritone.


I like this idea.
But, if you are a guitarist and practice your pentatonic scales,
you should be able to transpose onto a Bass guitar.
Why not E-E the bass guitar one octave lower and keep the guitar scale structure alive?

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Last edited by Toppscore on Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Guitar E-E & B-B Tuning * B-C Bass Tuning * HELP with TH
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:03 am
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Toppscore wrote:
Tochai wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
It might be something as simple as bassists are used to the 5th tuning pattern and it would make less sense for them to learn to play a bass like a big guitar.

:?

I think that's probably what it is. Since bass players aren't likely to be playing full chords there isn't really a point in having one string a third higher than the last when the others are in 4ths.

As for BEADF#B, that's exactly the same as EADGBE but a fifth lower, if the F# was a G then guitarists would have to learn different chord shapes for playing a baritone.


I like this idea.
But, if you are a guitarist and practice your pentatonic scales,
you should be able to transpose onto a Bass guitar.
Why not E-E the bass guitar one octave lower and keep the guitar scale structor alive?



"...because guitar is bad, m'kay?" :wink:


Like I said, I'd like to know if most guitarists who end up on a 6 string bass don't actually tune it like a guitar? Wether chording or picking, that's likely the most familiar tuning for them to play in. At least from a "getting started standpoint". From the standpoint of the bassist, keeping it all in 5ths would make the most sense. For those of us who play both it would probably just come down to personal preference. It's only a half step anyhow. Just something you have to remember is, or isn't there I'd imagine. Probably best to decide which way is best for the individual player and just never change from that point on. Wether you approach the instrument as a big low tuned guitar, or a bass with a wider range. JMO, of course. :?

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Post subject: Re: Guitar E-E & B-B Tuning * B-C Bass Tuning * HELP with TH
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:24 pm
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Pretty much been answered, but yeah... Baritone guitar retains the interval patterns from standard guitar tuning for the purpose of using familiar chord shapes, albeit transposed down by a fourth. I would imagine it to be standard that a 6 string bass retain the fifths intervals which are familiar to a bassist when adding a string on either end of the register... But, for bassists who are also guitarists or vice versa, it's porbably not uncommon to tune a 6 string bass in the same BEADF#B tuning that a baritone guitar uses, only an octave lower of course.

Now, to add to the discussion... for those like myeslf who generally play in drop D tuning... when you go to a baritone with the intention of playing in a band with another guitarist still using a standard 6 string in drop D, do you drop your E to D and keep the B, or do you drop the B to A and keep the E, retaining the drop D shape? Or, do you drop both the B and the E to A nad D, respectively? And the same question to 5 and 6 string bassists playing in a band with 6 string guitarists tuned to drop D... how do you tune your two lowest strings in that situation? (I used to play with a bassist who would drop his entire bass a whole step, because drop D tuning confused him, LOL!)


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Post subject: Re: Guitar E-E & B-B Tuning * B-C Bass Tuning * HELP with TH
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:36 pm
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I once saw this guy on TV playing a 5-string bass with a capo. He was alone and strumming and finger picking it like a guitar while he was singing. I don't know if it was tuned differently or not, but that inspired me to want to try something like that. I wonder if you could get a 6-string bass and apply the same concept as a Fender VI to it? Replace the low B with an E and the high C with a high E and so on. Unless they make a short scale 6-string bass, you couldn't use Fender VI strings on it. I know the neck is much wider, but it might be easier for finger picking, especially if you are used to the bass spacing. Speaking of which, I remember seeing this nylon string acoustic guitar in a music shop 20-odd years ago that had a massively wide neck on it. Almost like a 6-string bass. I never saw one like that since then.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar E-E & B-B Tuning * B-C Bass Tuning * HELP with TH
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:47 pm
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I figured that electric basses started out the same as upright basses (E-A-D-G), and just maintained the same intervals when adding a low string (B) and a high string (C) to make it easier to maintain the patterns used and not have to factor in that silly G - B interval. :D

Maybe you'll find useful or interesting info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_tuning

(Basses RULE! :D )

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Post subject: Re: Guitar E-E & B-B Tuning * B-C Bass Tuning * HELP with TH
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:33 pm
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Therefore a baritone guitar is strung B-B as a six string guitar is strung E-E,
just a fourth lower. Right?

The idea is to keep the Baritone & guitar chord structures & scales
physically similar towards fretboard play. Right?



Six string Bass guitars typically add one string above and one string below.

Six string Bass guitars typically use the BEADGC scale ~ Skipping the B
and favoring the "C". In my way of thinking, this keeps the I,IV,V Blues Rock
scale structure intact for all six strings.



But, it is OK to tune whatever you want on a six-string Bass,
so, why not tune a Six-String Bass to EADGBE
and add two (2) TOP STRINGS, rather than one top and one bottom string?

Basically, why not have a six-string bass emulate a six-string guitar, only one octive lower?

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Post subject: Re: Guitar E-E & B-B Tuning * B-C Bass Tuning * HELP with TH
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:31 am
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MacGyvercaster wrote:
Pretty much been answered, but yeah... Baritone guitar retains the interval patterns from standard guitar tuning for the purpose of using familiar chord shapes, albeit transposed down by a fourth. I would imagine it to be standard that a 6 string bass retain the fifths intervals which are familiar to a bassist when adding a string on either end of the register... But, for bassists who are also guitarists or vice versa, it's porbably not uncommon to tune a 6 string bass in the same BEADF#B tuning that a baritone guitar uses, only an octave lower of course.

Now, to add to the discussion... for those like myeslf who generally play in drop D tuning... when you go to a baritone with the intention of playing in a band with another guitarist still using a standard 6 string in drop D, do you drop your E to D and keep the B, or do you drop the B to A and keep the E, retaining the drop D shape? Or, do you drop both the B and the E to A nad D, respectively? And the same question to 5 and 6 string bassists playing in a band with 6 string guitarists tuned to drop D... how do you tune your two lowest strings in that situation? (I used to play with a bassist who would drop his entire bass a whole step, because drop D tuning confused him, LOL!)



I'd think you'd leave the E, and drop to A if you were to continue to play in the same manner. Though playing a baritone the way you would in a band the same way you would in Drop D would seem almost TOO sludgy. If anything I think you could just start playing the D barred at the 5th fret and leave it alone. As with all of this I think it really comes down to personal preference.

I used to work in Drop D in the punk bands I played in as that's how our guitarist liked to tune and it meant I could match him in register for roots. However, now that we're playing a different type of music in the band I'm currently in I've returned to standard tuning.

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Post subject: Re: Guitar E-E & B-B Tuning * B-C Bass Tuning * HELP with TH
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:43 am
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Toppscore wrote:
But, it is OK to tune whatever you want on a six-string Bass,
so, why not tune a Six-String Bass to EADGBE
and add two (2) TOP STRINGS, rather than one top and one bottom string?

Basically, why not have a six-string bass emulate a six-string guitar, only one octive lower?

Sure, nothing keeping you from doing that, but I don't think there'd be a tremendously practical use for that. I would think the longer scale and bigger strings would make it more difficult to play chords on than something like the Bass VI, which as I understand it is basically a baritone scale instrument, tuned an octave lower than a standard guitar. That would give you the same range you're talking about, but it would be much easier to play, I would think.


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Post subject: Re: Guitar E-E & B-B Tuning * B-C Bass Tuning * HELP with TH
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:09 am
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MacGyvercaster wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
But, it is OK to tune whatever you want on a six-string Bass,
so, why not tune a Six-String Bass to EADGBE
and add two (2) TOP STRINGS, rather than one top and one bottom string?

Basically, why not have a six-string bass emulate a six-string guitar, only one octive lower?

Sure, nothing keeping you from doing that, but I don't think there'd be a tremendously practical use for that. I would think the longer scale and bigger strings would make it more difficult to play chords on than something like the Bass VI, which as I understand it is basically a baritone scale instrument, tuned an octave lower than a standard guitar. That would give you the same range you're talking about, but it would be much easier to play, I would think.



Thanks. Good points all around. My new baritone guitar is in transit and will arrive soon.
Guessing it will be tuned to B-B and will be at bar chord "E" on the fifth fret.
I'm hoping to fall in love with the Rockabilly, Surf and Southwestern tone possibilities.

ESP-LTD HB-300 BARITONE
27" scale
24 frets
B-B 6-strings
Bound Neck
2 HB Duncan Humbuckers
TOM Tune-O-Matic Bridge



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