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Post subject: Re: Today's Recordings More 'Homogenized?'
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:53 pm
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Stratman, that's a very interesting site. I can tell you for a fact that most radio stations run their on-air signals through compressors, so the 'uber-compression' used in many recent recordings is totally unneccessary from a broadcasting standpoint.

Topsscore, I'm no audiophile, but in my experience, mp3s almost always sound kind of thin and tinny compared to vinyl and even many CD recordings. They're great for what they are, but digital downloads definitely have their limitations.

I agree headphones are a great way to listen to music, particularly recordings that make good use of dynamic range and stereo effects. I've got a pretty decent set of Koss phones I bought for work and enjoy using them whenever I have time for a more in-depth listening experience.

And yes, TG is a pretty awesome band -- definitely the antithesis of the 'homoginized pop' we've been discussing in this thread. 'Hamburger Lady' could very well be the creepiest (in a good way) track I've ever heard!

Mortalengines, it's true that vinyl records encorage people to listen to entire albums in a way that digital recordings do not. Which can be a good thing, since many of my favorite artists and songs were ones that took several listens before I really started to like them.


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Post subject: Re: Today's Recordings More 'Homogenized?'
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:37 pm
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schnepf13 wrote:
Topsscore, I'm no audiophile, but in my experience, mp3s almost always sound kind of thin and tinny compared to vinyl and even many CD recordings. They're great for what they are, but digital downloads definitely have their limitations.
I agree headphones are a great way to listen to music, particularly recordings that make good use of dynamic range and stereo effects. I've got a pretty decent set of Koss phones I bought for work and enjoy using them whenever I have time for a more in-depth listening experience.



Hi, Schnepf!
I've spent years ripping my huge collection(s). Started (regretfully) with 192kbps.
Accidently heard a song in 192kbps & 224kbps. I heard a huge difference.

So, for now, I rip everything in 256kbps except for RapHipHopPopTop40, Latin & Country.
Those I rip into 224kpbs as they're more about feeling & sound, less about production quality.

Rare records and expensive CDs or limited edition songs, I rip at 320kbps.
This is "supposed" to be the same as CD quality. I believe it.
Anyway, 320kbps requires much more HDD memory capacity per song compared
to my personal listening gain. Also, 256kbps is extremely good for my listening towards
getting the full sounds/tones desired.

224kbps for less desirable music is probably way too high as I could go 164/192kbps
and still get desired results, reduced HDD space and not worry about audiophile needs.

Just my humble thoughts and opinons and actual strategy used to keep sanity in my life :lol: :lol: :lol:

Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Today's Recordings More 'Homogenized?'
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:17 pm
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Well, I keep thinking about this topic a lot lately, we have an almost 16 year old daughter! :wink:

While I agree with lots of the statements above, I'd like to add one more thing but without knowing the age of my previous posters:

I think we have reached one of those generation changes as well. Remember what happened, when Elvis or the beatles showed up? It was new, it was provoking, it was catching hordes of teens and it even was condemned and considered to "come out of hell"!

This happens in fairly regular periods of time and I think we have reached one of those "landmarks" in music again.

We "old farts" (I'm 47) just have our problems to cope with these changes. I hardly listen to the new stuff, even though there's really good music out there. I've grown up with 70's/80s/90s rock music and that's where I go back to if I want to listen to music. There are exceptions (Satriani, Vai, Chickenfoot, Petrucci and some others) but I hardly have anything newer than maybe 1995. Can't remember when was the last time I bought a record coming out NEW! I guess that must have been Metallica's album with the Philharmonic Orchestra (S&M). Everything else after that were kinda "time machines", meaning: I bought older recordings.

I bought the first Chickenfoot live DVD, though and I'm going to buy Petrucci's "Suspended Animation" album.

There were changes in my reasons for buying music as well: while I bought music for pure listening joy when I was young, I now buy stuff/listen to stuff as a guitarist, looking for inspiration and for a push to become better.

It's different with the young generation today. They are spoiled and lazy! Biking? No! Climbing trees? No! Exploring the neighborhood, woods? No! Hobbies? Hardly!
What counts is: getting entertained with the least effort (TV, internet, game consoles).
Pleeeaase! Don't make me move!!! I'd better be sitting here, consuming everything that is thrown in front of my feet without asking!

This behaviour is surely reflected in the music business! It's way more important how cool or hip or fashionate a star is, rather than seriously questioning the artist's talent or the recording's quality.

Our society grows into a consuming wolverine, lead and tempted by marketing strategies to sell an undefined mash of homogene items.

Time flies and society changes, sometimes to the better, sometimes to the worse.

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Last edited by Smokin' Frets on Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Today's Recordings More 'Homogenized?'
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:01 pm
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Smokin' Frets wrote:
Well, I keep thinking about this topic a lot lately, we have an almost 16 year old daughter! :wink:

While I agree with lots of the statements above, I'd like to add one more thing but without knowing the age of my previous posters:

I think we have reached one of those generation changes as well. Remember what happened, when Elvis or the beatles showed up? It was new, it was provoking, it was catching hordes of teens and it even was condemned and considered to "come out of hell"!

This happens in fairly regular periods of time and I think we have reached one of those "landmarks" in music again.

We "old farts" (I'm 47) just have our problems to cope with these changes. I hardly listen to the new stuff, even though there's really good music out there. I've grown up with 70's/80s/90s rock music and that's where I go back to if I want to listen to music. There are exceptions (Satriani, Vai, Chickenfoot, Petrucci and some others) but I hardly have anything newer than maybe 1995. Can't remember when was the last time I bought a record coming out NEW! I guess that must have been Metallica's album with the Philharmonic Orchestra (S&M). Everything else after that were kinda "time machines", meaning: I bought older recordings.

I bought the first Chickenfoot live DVD, though and I'm going to buy Petrucci's "Animate inanimate" album.

There were changes in my reasons for buying music as well: while I bought music for pure listening joy when I was young, I now buy stuff/listen to stuff as a guitarist, looking for inspiration and for a push to become better.

It's different with the young generation today. They are spoiled and lazy! Biking? No! Climbing trees? No! Exploring the neighborhood, woods? No! Hobbies? Hardly!
What counts is: getting entertained with the least effort (TV, internet, game consoles).
Pleeeaase! Don't make me move!!! I'd better be sitting here, consuming everything that is thrown in front of my feet without asking!

This behaviour is surely reflected in the music business! It's way more important how cool or hip or fashionate a star is, rather than seriously questioning the artist's talent or the recording's quality.

Our society grows into a consuming wolverine, lead and tempted by marketing strategies to sell an undefined mash of homogene items.

Time flies and society changes, sometimes to the better, sometimes to the worse.



Outstanding, Smokin!
I'm going through this and have been going through this with kids, nieces & nephews.
Four more years till the last one get's booted out at eighteen to get a job or a degree :shock:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Today's Recordings More 'Homogenized?'
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:11 pm
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Smokin' Frets wrote:
Well, I keep thinking about this topic a lot lately, we have an almost 16 year old daughter! :wink:

While I agree with lots of the statements above, I'd like to add one more thing but without knowing the age of my previous posters:

I think we have reached one of those generation changes as well. Remember what happened, when Elvis or the beatles showed up? It was new, it was provoking, it was catching hordes of teens and it even was condemned and considered to "come out of hell"!

This happens in fairly regular periods of time and I think we have reached one of those "landmarks" in music again.

We "old farts" (I'm 47) just have our problems to cope with these changes. I hardly listen to the new stuff, even though there's really good music out there. I've grown up with 70's/80s/90s rock music and that's where I go back to if I want to listen to music. There are exceptions (Satriani, Vai, Chickenfoot, Petrucci and some others) but I hardly have anything newer than maybe 1995. Can't remember when was the last time I bought a record coming out NEW! I guess that must have been Metallica's album with the Philharmonic Orchestra (S&M). Everything else after that were kinda "time machines", meaning: I bought older recordings.

I bought the first Chickenfoot live DVD, though and I'm going to buy Petrucci's "Animate inanimate" album.

There were changes in my reasons for buying music as well: while I bought music for pure listening joy when I was young, I now buy stuff/listen to stuff as a guitarist, looking for inspiration and for a push to become better.

It's different with the young generation today. They are spoiled and lazy! Biking? No! Climbing trees? No! Exploring the neighborhood, woods? No! Hobbies? Hardly!
What counts is: getting entertained with the least effort (TV, internet, game consoles).
Pleeeaase! Don't make me move!!! I'd better be sitting here, consuming everything that is thrown in front of my feet without asking!

This behaviour is surely reflected in the music business! It's way more important how cool or hip or fashionate a star is, rather than seriously questioning the artist's talent or the recording's quality.

Our society grows into a consuming wolverine, lead and tempted by marketing strategies to sell an undefined mash of homogene items.

Time flies and society changes, sometimes to the better, sometimes to the worse.



I hate to make a 'generational generalization,' but I think there's something to your argument. Saw a story not all that long ago that discussed how teens are waiting longer than ever to get their drivers licences.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01339.html

I remember signing up for my learners permit at 9am on my 15th birthday and getting my licence within a couple months -- I couldn't wait to experience the freedom and opportunities that came along with getting that licence. Seems kind of lazy to me that teens would be satisfied to let their parents drive them around everywhere.


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Post subject: Re: Today's Recordings More 'Homogenized?'
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:13 pm
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Toppscore wrote:
schnepf13 wrote:
Topsscore, I'm no audiophile, but in my experience, mp3s almost always sound kind of thin and tinny compared to vinyl and even many CD recordings. They're great for what they are, but digital downloads definitely have their limitations.
I agree headphones are a great way to listen to music, particularly recordings that make good use of dynamic range and stereo effects. I've got a pretty decent set of Koss phones I bought for work and enjoy using them whenever I have time for a more in-depth listening experience.



Hi, Schnepf!
I've spent years ripping my huge collection(s). Started (regretfully) with 192kbps.
Accidently heard a song in 192kbps & 224kbps. I heard a huge difference.

So, for now, I rip everything in 256kbps except for RapHipHopPopTop40, Latin & Country.
Those I rip into 224kpbs as they're more about feeling & sound, less about production quality.

Rare records and expensive CDs or limited edition songs, I rip at 320kbps.
This is "supposed" to be the same as CD quality. I believe it.
Anyway, 320kbps requires much more HDD memory capacity per song compared
to my personal listening gain. Also, 256kbps is extremely good for my listening towards
getting the full sounds/tones desired.

224kbps for less desirable music is probably way too high as I could go 164/192kbps
and still get desired results, reduced HDD space and not worry about audiophile needs.

Just my humble thoughts and opinons and actual strategy used to keep sanity in my life :lol: :lol: :lol:

Toppscore 8)


Thanks for the tip, sir! I'll be sure to keep that info in mind the next time I download some tunes.


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Post subject: Re: Today's Recordings More 'Homogenized?'
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:38 pm
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schnepf13 wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
schnepf13 wrote:
Topsscore, I'm no audiophile, but in my experience, mp3s almost always sound kind of thin and tinny compared to vinyl and even many CD recordings. They're great for what they are, but digital downloads definitely have their limitations.
I agree headphones are a great way to listen to music, particularly recordings that make good use of dynamic range and stereo effects. I've got a pretty decent set of Koss phones I bought for work and enjoy using them whenever I have time for a more in-depth listening experience.



Hi, Schnepf!
I've spent years ripping my huge collection(s). Started (regretfully) with 192kbps.
Accidently heard a song in 192kbps & 224kbps. I heard a huge difference.

So, for now, I rip everything in 256kbps except for RapHipHopPopTop40, Latin & Country.
Those I rip into 224kpbs as they're more about feeling & sound, less about production quality.

Rare records and expensive CDs or limited edition songs, I rip at 320kbps.
This is "supposed" to be the same as CD quality. I believe it.
Anyway, 320kbps requires much more HDD memory capacity per song compared
to my personal listening gain. Also, 256kbps is extremely good for my listening towards
getting the full sounds/tones desired.

224kbps for less desirable music is probably way too high as I could go 164/192kbps
and still get desired results, reduced HDD space and not worry about audiophile needs.

Just my humble thoughts and opinons and actual strategy used to keep sanity in my life :lol: :lol: :lol:

Toppscore 8)


Thanks for the tip, sir! I'll be sure to keep that info in mind the next time I download some tunes.



I knew I forgot something. About comparing and Itunes is not the way to go.
Rip a CD that you own into MP3 - this process is free at home, of course.
When ripping at home on your own computer, you should have KBPS options.

Simply rip at 320kbps.
Then rip at 192kbps

Then, play the CD song on a stereo system or headphone set.
Then, through a quality player or even your computer, play the 320kbps.
Then play the 192kbps.

PLMK your results.
Itunes is not good and/or reliable as to what you get.
If you get something off Itunes, you do not know the sources.
So, you could download from Itunes at 320kbps, but that song may already be at 224kbps.
When ripping off store bought CDs, you know the source.

Once you hear differences and decide your copying strategy,
it will make a difference. BTW, what kbps do you rip at, now?

Take care. Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: Today's Recordings More 'Homogenized?'
Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:04 am
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schnepf13 wrote:
I hate to make a 'generational generalization,' but I think there's something to your argument. Saw a story not all that long ago that discussed how teens are waiting longer than ever to get their drivers licences.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01339.html

I remember signing up for my learners permit at 9am on my 15th birthday and getting my licence within a couple months -- I couldn't wait to experience the freedom and opportunities that came along with getting that licence. Seems kind of lazy to me that teens would be satisfied to let their parents drive them around everywhere.

I don't think this is a valid argument about teens. You have to keep in mind how expensive things have become. It's difficult for a kid to go to school, get good grades, and be able to afford a vehicle. These days teens almost need a full time job just to be able to afford gas and insurance! In my opinion price is the bigger issue here, not laziness.

About music now. I like mp3. I like being able to listen to music on my phone at any given time. Obviously the sound quality isn't the same, but you have to give to get. It's much more convenient to use an mp3 then a vinyl record. Yes, you lose certain aspects of the sound, but you have music at the tip of your finger no matter where you are. I'm OK with that trade off, personally.


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Post subject: Re: Today's Recordings More 'Homogenized?'
Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:28 am
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FatNWeak wrote:
About music now. I like mp3. I like being able to listen to music on my phone at any given time. Obviously the sound quality isn't the same, but you have to give to get. It's much more convenient to use an mp3 then a vinyl record. Yes, you lose certain aspects of the sound, but you have music at the tip of your finger no matter where you are. I'm OK with that trade off, personally.


I think the deal about MP3 is the willingness to rip into 320kbps.
Simple as that. 320kbps in you IPhone or MP3 player sounds great
as long as the output is through quality speakers or headphones.

The cost here is HDD memory. Still not anything to worry about
when compared to CD's cassettes or album lps.

Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Today's Recordings More 'Homogenized?'
Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:23 am
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Briese wrote:
Drum machines, pitch correction and all the other processing used on almost every song delivers mechanical music. Certainly, there have always been crappy songs that are popular, but I think that relates more to what the average person (nimrod) buys. It is my opinion that most consumers today are satisfied to buy what is offered to them irregardless of quality. In the end every business is the same...minimize production expense and maximize profit.

I don't even think people make up their own minds about what they like and dislike. It seems they just wait to see if their "friends" like it and then they just follow the crowd.


Pitch correction yes, drum machine no. Someone has to program that beat. I've created many drum beats for original music. Some are easy and some are hard.

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Post subject: Re: Today's Recordings More 'Homogenized?'
Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:31 am
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yodacaster wrote:
Briese wrote:
Drum machines, pitch correction and all the other processing used on almost every song delivers mechanical music. Certainly, there have always been crappy songs that are popular, but I think that relates more to what the average person (nimrod) buys. It is my opinion that most consumers today are satisfied to buy what is offered to them irregardless of quality. In the end every business is the same...minimize production expense and maximize profit.

I don't even think people make up their own minds about what they like and dislike. It seems they just wait to see if their "friends" like it and then they just follow the crowd.


Pitch correction yes, drum machine no. Someone has to program that beat. I've created many drum beats for original music. Some are easy and some are hard.



How about adding reverb and vibrato?
These are stone-age dynamics that change the source original music.
What do you think about that? Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: Today's Recordings More 'Homogenized?'
Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:33 am
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Toronado wrote:
The heck with all of it.. I think 4-track recordings sound great.


Sometimes theres nothing like Lo-Fi.

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Post subject: Re: Today's Recordings More 'Homogenized?'
Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:36 am
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yodacaster wrote:
Toronado wrote:
The heck with all of it.. I think 4-track recordings sound great.

Sometimes theres nothing like Lo-Fi.


What is wrong with just playing garage rock without all of the enhancements?
I love raw (but good) garage rock. Toppscore :)

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