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ozrv · **Posted:** Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:55 am

Free exchange of ideas indeed.........Just such beliefs in a free society when there is still oppression and poverty world over goes against the grain....Vague answer though...... no disrespect just a honest question on opinion on such political rant.......

TheKingofPain · **Posted:** Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:06 am

ozrv wrote:

Free exchange of ideas indeed.........Was my question as to the subject....Vague answer though...... no disrespect just honest opinion on such political rant.......

Is it common? I wouldn't call it common, but it's common enough. It's ingrained in our culture. At least for now until the public school system finishes doing it's job of indoctrinating it out of the kids. Many establishment types on both sides slam this type of discourse here, too. However, most either ignore it, or point and whisper. It's just likely that we aren't as far down that road as you are and our culture has evolved a bit differently since our birth as a nation.

While most may roll their eyes, or make snarky comments. Only the most hardcore of establishment types would call for someone to be silenced. That's a pretty strong belief here. That even if someone has differing views that they still have the right to have them. Here's a paraphrase of an old saying. "I may not always agree with what he says, but I'll always defend his right to say it." This is still held pretty widely as a belief here. Or it was until this latest generation.

ozrv · **Posted:** Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:12 am

TheKingofPain wrote:

ozrv wrote:

Free exchange of ideas indeed.........Was my question as to the subject....Vague answer though...... no disrespect just honest opinion on such political rant.......

Is it common? I wouldn't call it common, but it's common enough. It's ingrained in our culture. At least for now until the public school system finishes doing it's job of indoctrinating it out of the kids. Many establishment types on both sides slam this type of discourse here, too. However, most either ignore it, or point and whisper. It's just likely that we aren't as far down that road as you are and our culture has evolved a bit differently since our birth as a nation.

While most may roll their eyes, or make snarky comments. Only the most hardcore of establishment types would call for someone to be silenced. That's a pretty strong belief here. That even if someone has differing views that they still have the right to have them. Here's a paraphrase of an old saying. "I may not always agree with what he says, but I'll always defend his right to say it." This is still held pretty widely as a belief here. Or it was until this latest generation.

Thank you KOP.. :wink:

, Articulate, honest and as i would expect.

ozrv · **Posted:** Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:21 am

TheKingofPain · **Posted:** Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:23 am

The Word and the Breath wrote:

TheKingofPain wrote:

ozrv wrote:

.....Is there a point where extreme against society political views should be mediated by Brad here? I think our culture over here is less acceptant of these views over the pond.....I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing...

...It's just what i'm used to....This stuff would be slammed agressively over here instantly by any public presence. Is that style of extreme against the establishment viewpoint common over there that you all just accept it as democratic? I have to ask....As the lack of reaction to it is startling to me..... :shock:

Ps... just for the i see dead people activists... :roll:

...Its exactly the opposite to your thoughts why we react baddly to it....We react baddly to it because we try our hardest and succeed to be a a democratic fair, Humane, moral, free society. If you want to whinge about oppression and crimes against society go live in war torn african and eastern european countries and feel what its like to be raped and beaten down with no hope no matter how hard you try... :wink:

..... People who take this line in free democratic countries where if you try hard you can live well, like most of ours remind me of spoilt little weak children who have no heart muscle to get out of bed and be a adult and be accountable............

So our our financial system makes mistakes.... :roll:

It sure the beats the hell out of genocide, Civil war, dicatorships, Racism and opression like the rest of history......

I really did't mean to start chaos.....But the preachers are bleating so there's my bleat back.....

There's a lot of irony in the fact that you are touting your society as moral, humane and free right after you are calling for him to be censored and seem proud of the fact that dissent against the establishment gets "aggressively slammed" where you are from.

Also, just a little lesson on "democracy" for you. Democracy is about as humane and fair as gang rape. It's two people telling a third that they have the "right" to steal their property because there are more of them. It's institutionalized mob violence and theft.

We have it here too, as the republic has been steadily eroded. (not that it didn't have it's issues as does all government) Anyplace with a taxcode has it. It's a violation of rights in it's most vicious and despicable form. It's the tyranny of the weak over the strong. It's slavery.

The fact that your immediate response to his post was to petition for a "higher authority" to censor him instead of just taking upon yourself to ignore him is a perfect example of the one of the symptoms of a society that has been beaten into submission and can't fathom the thought of not being told what to do.

I'm not posting this to insult you. I'm posting this to hopefully make you see that we have very different cultures. I have no issues with you and yours living your way, please don't try to enforce your way of life on us. If you don't like something he posts, or even my post. Please feel free to ignore us. I'd rather have a discussion or a debate with someone I disagree with then to not have the ability to have a free exchange of ideas.

Bravo. I see you have an understanding of Madison’s original US Constitution. Most don’t anymore. His struggle was the protection of both private property and the rights of the majority (poor). Finding a balance.

I'm a huge fan of Madison. It really is a shame most don't read his writings. It boils my blood everytime someone cites the commerce clause as the basis for another government overreach into the marketplace. Madison very clearly defined his intentions in his writings that it was only there to keep importing states from adding additional taxes or tariffs to non-importing states in the union. That's it. He wrote the damn thing. He ought to know. Yet you get every clown in office claiming to be a "cosntitutional scholar" beating that deadhorse to restrict the importation of everything from wood for guitars to medicine. He's probably rolling in his damn grave with the thought that you can't purchase a glass of raw milk if you wanted to. Sad.

TheKingofPain · **Posted:** Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:32 am

The Word and the Breath wrote:

TheKingofPain wrote:

ozrv wrote:

Free exchange of ideas indeed.........Was my question as to the subject....Vague answer though...... no disrespect just honest opinion on such political rant.......

Is it common? I wouldn't call it common, but it's common enough. It's ingrained in our culture. At least for now until the public school system finishes doing it's job of indoctrinating it out of the kids. Many establishment types on both sides slam this type of discourse here, too. However, most either ignore it, or point and whisper. It's just likely that we aren't as far down that road as you are and our culture has evolved a bit differently since our birth as a nation.

While most may roll their eyes, or make snarky comments. Only the most hardcore of establishment types would call for someone to be silenced. That's a pretty strong belief here. That even if someone has differing views that they still have the right to have them. Here's a paraphrase of an old saying. "I may not always agree with what he says, but I'll always defend his right to say it." This is still held pretty widely as a belief here. Or it was until this latest generation.

Well, hold on. Obviously I agree with you substantively except for one thing: it is “the latest generation” that is fighting. Did you happen to notice the “Occupy” movement last year that was eventually crushed by the establishment using police with weapons, just like in Tienamen Square, China? The movement has been co-opted by ignorant lower 15% dreadlocked homeless minorities who won’t work, but the original organizers had it right: IT WAS A PROTEST OF THE BANK BAILOUTS, THE FEDERAL RESERVE AND FIAT PAPER MONEY BACKED BY NOTHING REAL. PAPER MONEY AUTOMATICALLY LEADS TO INFLATION AND LIFELONG, INESCAPABLE DEBT, WHICH IS SLAVERY. The Founders, Madison and Jefferson, warned us. They tried to stop Hamilton (like a modern day corporatist/banking elite guy) from imposing the central bank system.

True, but you do realize that Occupy is a socialist organization right? The kids on the streets are mostly brainwashed into thinking a free market is what is causing their problems and that more government control is the answer. When it's the opposite. It's the fact that the government has involvement in the marketplace at all. They are confusing the central bank with free markets. They are two separate things and we haven't ever had a truly free market in this country. So everything they are being fed as rhetoric is a lie. The problem stems from collusion between the banks, industry and government that caused the problem to begin with. The organization's aim isn't a free market. It's totalitarianism. These kids are ill informed and are being used. Just like the anarchists in the Russian Revolution were used in 1917. It's text book class warfare, and relies on the fact that none of these kids were taught anything about history growing up. These people are out there spray painting and destroying private property. Do you really think that Madison or Jefferson would applaud that?! The last thing they would want would be more government. They'd be calling on an end to this government as it embodies everything they tried to prevent. Only a pack of fools would complain that banks and business buying government influence is a problem and think that the solution was a more powerful government. What nonsense!

ozrv · **Posted:** Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:39 am

TheKingofPain wrote:

ozrv wrote:

.....Is there a point where extreme against society political views should be mediated by Brad here? I think our culture over here is less acceptant of these views over the pond.....I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing...

...It's just what i'm used to....This stuff would be slammed agressively over here instantly by any public presence. Is that style of extreme against the establishment viewpoint common over there that you all just accept it as democratic? I have to ask....As the lack of reaction to it is startling to me..... :shock:

Ps... just for the i see dead people activists... :roll:

...Its exactly the opposite to your thoughts why we react baddly to it....We react baddly to it because we try our hardest and succeed to be a a democratic fair, Humane, moral, free society. If you want to whinge about oppression and crimes against society go live in war torn african and eastern european countries and feel what its like to be raped and beaten down with no hope no matter how hard you try... :wink:

..... People who take this line in free democratic countries where if you try hard you can live well, like most of ours remind me of spoilt little weak children who have no heart muscle to get out of bed and be a adult and be accountable............

So our our financial system makes mistakes.... :roll:

It sure the beats the hell out of genocide, Civil war, dicatorships, Racism and opression like the rest of history......

I really did't mean to start chaos.....But the preachers are bleating so there's my bleat back.....

There's a lot of irony in the fact that you are touting your society as moral, humane and free right after you are calling for him to be censored and seem proud of the fact that dissent against the establishment gets "aggressively slammed" where you are from.

It's nothing but generic opinion.....

Also, just a little lesson on "democracy" for you. Democracy is about as humane and fair as gang rape. It's two people telling a third that they have the "right" to steal their property because there are more of them. It's institutionalized mob violence and theft.

My father escaped eastern europe and i lived in europe for 8 years mid kossovo in a albainian/German town......Your oppression in US is 3 tenths of $@! all you cotton wool brat.....

Footnote........"outside our brave armed forces".... God bless them........Fkn legends!!!!

We have it here too, as the republic has been steadily eroded. (not that it didn't have it's issues as does all government) Anyplace with a taxcode has it. It's a violation of rights in it's most vicious and despicable form. It's the tyranny of the weak over the strong. It's slavery.

Blah blah...Blah blah...

The fact that your immediate response to his post was to petition for a "higher authority" to censor him instead of just taking upon yourself to ignore him is a perfect example of the one of the symptoms of a society that has been beaten into submission and can't fathom the thought of not being told what to do.

Greater good of people is our only hope or revert back to what's happened in history.....

I'm not posting this to insult you. I'm posting this to hopefully make you see that we have very different cultures. I have no issues with you and yours living your way, please don't try to enforce your way of life on us. If you don't like something he posts, or even my post. Please feel free to ignore us. I'd rather have a discussion or a debate with someone I disagree with then to not have the ability to have a free exchange of ideas.

I have no problem with freedom these damn preachers do........ :wink:

TheKingofPain · **Posted:** Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:01 am

ozrv wrote:

TheKingofPain wrote:

ozrv wrote:

.....Is there a point where extreme against society political views should be mediated by Brad here? I think our culture over here is less acceptant of these views over the pond.....I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing...

...It's just what i'm used to....This stuff would be slammed agressively over here instantly by any public presence. Is that style of extreme against the establishment viewpoint common over there that you all just accept it as democratic? I have to ask....As the lack of reaction to it is startling to me..... :shock:

Ps... just for the i see dead people activists... :roll:

...Its exactly the opposite to your thoughts why we react baddly to it....We react baddly to it because we try our hardest and succeed to be a a democratic fair, Humane, moral, free society. If you want to whinge about oppression and crimes against society go live in war torn african and eastern european countries and feel what its like to be raped and beaten down with no hope no matter how hard you try... :wink:

..... People who take this line in free democratic countries where if you try hard you can live well, like most of ours remind me of spoilt little weak children who have no heart muscle to get out of bed and be a adult and be accountable............

So our our financial system makes mistakes.... :roll:

It sure the beats the hell out of genocide, Civil war, dicatorships, Racism and opression like the rest of history......

I really did't mean to start chaos.....But the preachers are bleating so there's my bleat back.....

There's a lot of irony in the fact that you are touting your society as moral, humane and free right after you are calling for him to be censored and seem proud of the fact that dissent against the establishment gets "aggressively slammed" where you are from.

It's nothing but generic opinion.....

Also, just a little lesson on "democracy" for you. Democracy is about as humane and fair as gang rape. It's two people telling a third that they have the "right" to steal their property because there are more of them. It's institutionalized mob violence and theft.

My father escaped eastern europe and i lived in europe for 8 years mid kossovo in a albainian/German town......Your oppression in US is 3 tenths of $@! all you cotton wool brat.....

We have it here too, as the republic has been steadily eroded. (not that it didn't have it's issues as does all government) Anyplace with a taxcode has it. It's a violation of rights in it's most vicious and despicable form. It's the tyranny of the weak over the strong. It's slavery.

Blah blah...Blah blah...

The fact that your immediate response to his post was to petition for a "higher authority" to censor him instead of just taking upon yourself to ignore him is a perfect example of the one of the symptoms of a society that has been beaten into submission and can't fathom the thought of not being told what to do.

Greater good of people is our only hope or revert back to what's happened in history.....

I'm not posting this to insult you. I'm posting this to hopefully make you see that we have very different cultures. I have no issues with you and yours living your way, please don't try to enforce your way of life on us. If you don't like something he posts, or even my post. Please feel free to ignore us. I'd rather have a discussion or a debate with someone I disagree with then to not have the ability to have a free exchange of ideas.

I have no problem with freedom these damn preachers do........ :wink:

I have to respectfully disagree. We still have civil wars, genocide, and all the other things you mentioned. Most are actually done in the name of "The Greater Good". The reality is that there is no such thing as "The Greater Good". If you enslave one man to help another. You've destroyed one persons sovereignty to give another something he either couldn't or wouldn't obtain on his own. This doesn't "free" the other person as they are still bound by the chains of the slavery. There are two slaves in any situation like this. The person that gets their property, labor, or life stolen and the person that benefits from it because he is taught that he needs to put forth nothing to gain. He therefore becomes a dependent and his life is no longer his. The only person who benefits from this is the enabler. In most cases the government.

Here's a quick example. One that is happening as we speak. You can't afford to buy food. So you vote for someone who will use the force of government to steal from me to pay for your food. I am now a slave to you and you are now a slave to the government. Meaning that you are bound to vote for those who will provide for your what you can or will not buy or produce for yourself. I am then bound to you as government forcibly steal from me to continually feed you. Yet, government doesn't and cannot do this for free. The people who push papers, carry the guns, and issue the cards need to be paid. So they skim some off the top. This is the fallacy of "The Greater Good". The only person it does good for is government and those in it's employ as they produce nothing, yet reap the rewards. It's organized crime.

ozrv · **Posted:** Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:20 am

....... If you are a good Craftsman, Businessman, Hardworker you have the best chance to make a trouble free and quality life war free, fair and non killing humane for you and your family out of any time in history!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! with our current democratic situation in USA, OZ and UK........ I support that evolved way of thinking..... Over n out.......

TheKingofPain · **Posted:** Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:29 am

ozrv wrote:

:? ....... If you are a good Craftsman, Businessman, Hardworker you have the best chance to make a trouble free and quality life war free, fair and non killing humane for you and your family out of any time in history!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! with our current democratic situation in USA, OZ and UK........ I support that evolved way of thinking..... Over n out.......

As someone who served in the Middle East in The US Army with members of the armed services of both those countries almost 2 decades ago and the fact that we still have troops there. I myself can no longer support that. The fact that you may live "free" within your cage and may never have to bleed for that lifestyle doesn't mean others aren't doing it for you. You've just expanded it far enough away from home so you don't have to see it. I enjoyed this talk, though. I think you're a good person who is simply trying to do the best he can. As are most in the world.

ozrv · **Posted:** Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:34 am

Footnote........"outside our brave armed forces".... God bless them........Fkn legends!!!!

Please see this quote after reading it once instantly added within 2 mins of original post.......... :wink:

ozrv · **Posted:** Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:58 am

TheKingofPain wrote:

Here's a quick example. One that is happening as we speak. You can't afford to buy food. So you vote for someone who will use the force of government to steal from me to pay for your food. I am now a slave to you and you are now a slave to the government. Meaning that you are bound to vote for those who will provide for your what you can or will not buy or produce for yourself. I am then bound to you as government forcibly steal from me to continually feed you. Yet, government doesn't and cannot do this for free. The people who push papers, carry the guns, and issue the cards need to be paid. So they skim some off the top. This is the fallacy of "The Greater Good". The only person it does good for is government and those in it's employ as they produce nothing, yet reap the rewards. It's organized crime.

We'lll have to agree to disagree then huh...........A year living in africa or serbia would do a lad like you the world of good....

Tell all your ansestors ur upset about the freedom they have carved for you out of blood and bone then huh....... ..Pffffttt.....good night....... :roll:

Strider · **Joined:** Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:19 pm **Posts:** 96

bluesguitar65 wrote:

Strider wrote:

Guitar Center's problem is they don't wheel and deal. I buy small stuff from them as for guitars and amps I seek out mom and pop stores cause they'll bend on prices. GC's blemished products are a joke too.

I found that to be the opposite. I always get great deals at the GC I go to, and they often beat prices that are lower online...... I guess it depends on which GC you go to.

Yeah I guess huh. :roll:

2 years ago...

GC: CS Sunburst Strat Pro $1899.00 with tax and won't budge on price.
Instrumental Music (Mom & Pop): Same guitar, same year $1899.00. I got it $1650.00 out the door. Oh, don't get me started on my other guitars.

Online? Yeah, I've found better deals there as well.

As you said, "I guess it depends on where you go."

TheKingofPain · **Posted:** Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:16 am

ozrv wrote:

TheKingofPain wrote:

Here's a quick example. One that is happening as we speak. You can't afford to buy food. So you vote for someone who will use the force of government to steal from me to pay for your food. I am now a slave to you and you are now a slave to the government. Meaning that you are bound to vote for those who will provide for your what you can or will not buy or produce for yourself. I am then bound to you as government forcibly steal from me to continually feed you. Yet, government doesn't and cannot do this for free. The people who push papers, carry the guns, and issue the cards need to be paid. So they skim some off the top. This is the fallacy of "The Greater Good". The only person it does good for is government and those in it's employ as they produce nothing, yet reap the rewards. It's organized crime.

We'lll have to agree to disagree then huh...........A year living in africa or serbia would do a lad like you the world of good....

Tell all your ansestors ur upset about the freedom they have carved for you out of blood and bone then huh....... ..Pffffttt.....good night....... :roll:

Sigh. If my service in the Middle East isn't enough to convince you that I am more then willing and able to stand post on my front porch each and every night if that is the price of my freedom then I don't know what to tell you. The Warlords of Africa will get the same thing as the Jackboots of this nation should they come round my door looking to harm me or mine. The business end of my rifle.

Don't mistake your cowardice or inability to fight for freedom, for mine. I'm just not willing to send anymore kids "over there" to do my fighting for me. If you, or anyone else would like to stop hiding behind the skirt of government and your non-existant "social contract" and cut out the middle man you're more then welcome to come around. Just don't be crying when it ends poorly for you. I'm sure I'd do just fine wherever in the world I am. Because I'm not going to sit around and wait for someone else to buy my food for me, and I'm not going to call 911 when someone comes around. I don't need the government to solve my problems.

bluesstrattone · **Joined:** Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:08 am **Posts:** 2265

Most of the sales staff at my local gc base their knowledge
off of the tags on the headstock.
I've gone there before and asked them ,
"hey man, is this an FSR strat with bla, bla, bla"
They look at the tag and say I guess so.
poor business ethics out of most. They only pay attention
when you pull out cash, then their willing to help.
I offered my Gibson les Paul studio as a trade, it's the 50s humbucker
tribute, mint cherry condish. The offered 360 to buy .
I didn't sell, and not going to .
I was gonna buy a Martin acoustic 1750.00 with the trade.
I was pretty eager until I really thought about it.
So they loose sales left and right with impulsive shoppers like
me by treating us like if our store bought gear is worthless.

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