'Punitive damages' for scratches on a guitar, lol! That's rich. Seriously, use a different pawn shop or dont pawn your guitar anymore. Move on.

chef wrote:

"I go tell the owner..he's like "what are you going to do?" ...
I have a pretty good idea who went all the way with unwrapping, and scratching the heck outta the back of my bass. This guy has thrown little digs at me in the back of the store, when it was just us. He's quite bitter.

The owner of a pawn shop is obligated by law to secure an item from damage or theft. The owner didn't fulfill their duties when they stated nothing but; "what are you going to do?" That's deprivation of services, and intentional deprivation is punishment, punishment is punitive and due to the nature of the civil crime -- unjust enrichment as well.

If the owner conspired with the employee, that's conspiracy and vandalism, criminal conspiracy and vandalism charges could be filed.

A bitter person throwing digs, entirely unlawful conduct in a public business, digs that hurt somebody's feelings, is clearly punitive punishment.

The definition of punitive is; "inflicting or intended as punishment."

chef's feelings were hurt -- that's punitive punishment, and the damage and repair equate conspiracy, vandalism, and unjust enrichment to the owner at chef's loss.

If gender, race, religion, and etc. were involved, civil rights were violated.

If this type of conduct is common practice for the pawn shop, they are a menace to society and a court can shut them down, immediately.

If the owner does not take the necessary steps to immediately correct these problems, he is either negligent or grossly negligent based upon the extent and true nature of the crimes!

...I studied Business Law (which included civil, constitutional, and criminal law) while matriculating -- good teacher I guess!

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"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a Conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst." J. Edgar Hoover

Studying law in a classroom is one thing and practicing it is another.

Punitive damages are paid in excess of the plaintiff's provable injuries and are awarded only in special cases, usually under tort law, where the defendant's conduct was egregiously insidious. Punitive damages usually are not awarded in contract disputes and that is what these allegations are. I would refer you to what Black's Law Dictionary and how the State jurisdiction responsible defines "egregiously insidious". Think of shocked consciousness to the reasonable person standard, not merely an owner's hurt feelings over scratches, dents, and gouging inflicted through thoughtless handling and storage.

Even if the OP pawned a brand new Custom Shop Strat, what is the maximum value? Less than $5,000 retail in most cases and pawn shops are rarely going to loan more than about 33% of adjusted market value. That being the case, most such claims are going to be referred to Small Claims Court or the equivalent where attorneys are disallowed or have limited involvement. Even so, contact an attorney and see if they will handle a claim for $1,000. They'll be too busy laughing at the query.

Pawn shop tickets specifically state that they are not responsible for incidental damages resulting from the receipt, the handling, and the storage of pawned property. They have been down this road before and know about damage claims.

Punitive damages are not going to be awarded over these allegations, even if proven.

I agree with almost everything you said.

Everybody I know would be shocked at such conduct. I was shocked when I read it. I was shocked when something similar happened to me. And, based on what chef described and wrote, the acts (conspiracy, vandalism, further; harassment, negligence, and even further fraud) were clearly intentional. Wouldn't you agree that conspiracy, vandalism, harassment (digs), and fraud (they knew they weren't fulfilling the contract to start with) are insidious conduct seismic?

Then, we get back to..."where there's smoke, there's fire." If they did it to chef, they'll do it to others. So the damage they may be doing to the community could amount to thousands, tens of thousands if they do such things to more valuable items -- a menace to society, such conduct can wreck lives.

seismic, don't you find what happened to chef shocking???

If no, it's no wonder crimes like that are rampant in the US these days...

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"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a Conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst." J. Edgar Hoover

If you care about something so badly, dont hock it.
That's the only answer.

Doesn't the pawned item become the property of the business owner. Who then makes a contract to sell you back the item within a set amount of time, for a set price?

Pretty sure that's the in and out of it. In laymans terms

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No no and no

Here in the States it is a bit different. You put an item up as collateral for a loan. You then have a set time to pay said loan off. Only if you default on the loan does the item become the property of the pawn shop.

Personally I have never pawned anything that I did not want to keep. My wife on the other hand lost one of my guitars to a pawn shop while I was overseas in the military in the 90’s.

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RK

2007 Fender Highway 1
2012 American Deluxe
2015 MIM Dave Murray HHH
2010 Fender Blacktop
1987 Fender Avalon Acoustic
2012 Marshall DSL 15 watt head

RK surely for that contract to work the item has to be in a state of lieu for the buyback period? So technically it's not owned by anyone but is a ward of the court.
Otherwise the business could not legally seize ownership. And you could just take the thing back.

Like a frozen asset as it were?

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No no and no

Technically, it's owned by you because you usually get way less than market value for the the collateral loan and they would be unjustly enriched if they arbitrarily kept it.

A court would have to issue an order to claim the guitar, and they can't do that without due process -- a hearing would need to occur with you present and the court would need a reason to keep the guitar...you owe taxes or they deem it property as part of a judgement against you.

I've been in court in pro-per on several occasions (administrative court, family court, juvenile court [major gas kickn' there; the prosecutor did not have his facts straight and was ready to trounce on one of my children],civil court, superior court) and knew more than the attorneys did -- their clients ending up the victims of malpractice. Their attorneys thought they could just walk in and say it so based on so many citizens being so ignorant of legal doctrines and law, the attorneys accustomed to getting away with corruption and ignorance routinely.

Ya should have seen the face on the last attorney who said; "Mr. RCB is right" after he vehemently asserted a flawed legal argument. The attorney looked good, sounded good, seemed to impress his clients until I stated..."that is not true." Had I not studied law and did my homework for each hearing, I'd have gotten screwed via corruption during each and every hearing -- shocking!

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"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a Conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst." J. Edgar Hoover

yeah man, i think when it comes to this kind of situation...you just have to turn the other cheek and walk away...id never trust any pond shop. you are probably just pretty lucky you got your instrument back bro! sorry to sound negative. but, it is a pond shop after all!

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Squier For Life!

Peavey Mark IV Bass head
Peavey 2x10
Peavey 1x15

God gave you anger and passion, intellect and a brain, and a passion for justice for many reasons, use them.

Would you sit idly by and watch a child, a woman, an elder, a runt, someone outnumbered unjustly being beaten??? Would you ask them to turn the other cheek in the midst of a fraud or malicious act? Or would you say: "Hey, pick on somebody your own size." And then...wut if they picked on you?

In most cases, the pen is mightier than the sword -- the pawn shop case is one of them.

Pawn shops like that need to be shut down!

With respect to self-defense or coming to the defense of another:

"To everything there is a season, a time for every purpose under heaven: . . . a time to kill, and a time to heal;" (Ecclesiastes 3:1,3)

Jesus said it is "better to turn the other cheek" when being wronged or assaulted, not mandatory. I think he said this because in most cases, turning the other cheek will bring another to salvation. However, there is a season for every thing our creator built into us, amen.

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"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a Conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst." J. Edgar Hoover

For a minute there you sounded like Alec Baldwin in that Capitol One commercial.

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...I for one, sure would appreciate the return of intelligent conversation, spirit of assistance and the simple yet effective ignoring of those who can't seem to hang with that...
Best regards,
rob

Alec Baldwin was on the Forum?

You can spread the word locally, and that could cost them customers--both the pawners & the pawnees--so to speak.

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It wasn't Willy-Nilly, it was at crows.

...based on my research, it seems words in the bible have been changed or misinterpreted. One of the words I think has been changed, or misinterpreted, is "kill" in the ten commandments section. I think the correct word or interpretation is "murder", thou shalt not murder. Based on facts I have come across, there is fraud in the old and new testaments. As soon as I have concrete info on all that, I'll throw it up somewhere.

I avoid television commercials like the plague.

Yo, Alec Baldwin!?

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"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a Conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst." J. Edgar Hoover

whoa! a little extreme, comparing someones life, to a material object...its just not the same. I think in his case..its a pond shop...not exactly the most trusted way of business. Its kind of like going to a drug deal, and getting caught by the police. you know its a bad idea, and there might be repercussions, but you still do it anyway. I do agree that what happened to his bass, is an absolute massacre...though, life isnt fair man. trust me i know from my own personal experiences. what im try to say here is..yeah, it sucks, but really what can you do about it? just learn from your mistakes and walk away. make sure you dont make the same mistake twice

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Squier For Life!

Peavey Mark IV Bass head
Peavey 2x10
Peavey 1x15