Hello everybody,

I'm planning to buy an extremely cheap SH electric guitar for the mere fact that I want to learn and exercise properly setting up a guitar.

I currently own a Squier Bullet Strat HSS and I've had to make a few modifications to the neck, saddles, tremolo etc. Although this one is a cheap guitar itself, I'm still quite stressed out about modifying something without being sure of what I'm doing, I'm afraid not to damage anything while making the adjustments. I'm mostly speaking about the trussrod and adjustment here.

So I was planning to get another guitar just to exercise these adjustments up to the point where I know exactly what I'm doing. And I no longer want to be stressed out by the idea that I might screw up things even more. If something goes wrong, it's ok, that's not going to be a tragedy.

So my question is, is it worth buying a VERY cheap guitar just for this purpose? This particular brand I'm going to buy is well known for the pretty low quality materials they use to build the guitars. In other words, CAN AN EXTREMELY CHEAP ELECTRIC GUITAR BE SET UP CORRECTLY? Or should I drop the idea altogether?

By the way, I'm focusing on the above mentioned brand because I am not willing to pay more money for a guitar that is going to be used for such purposes.

Moreover, I wouldn't take my guitar to a specialist for a setup, because I want to learn how to set it up myself. And people hardly ever give away the "secrets"...

I've been watching tons of videos on how to set up a guitar, but still, I don't feel comfortable enough...

Hope I've made myself understood.

Thank you in advance,
Mike.

That is just not true amongst reputable repair people in the guitar world. In fact the opposite is more than common. Reason being they don't want you turning up, presenting them with a headache job that you want done last Wednesday. They'd much rather you learned to look after your instrument yourself.

Unless you go making wild adjustments, you won't break anything. Buy another guitar if you wish, though there is really no need for it. And finally yes you can set a cheap guitar up to play properly, if you're good enough at setting up instruments. It sounds like you're not. Especially when you consider you'll likely need to do some fret leveling and nut slot adjustment on a cheap instrument to get it right.

Far better off just shelling out a few quid extra in my book.

_________________
No no and no

You are right, I am not at all good at setting up my guitar. I actually have some theoretical notions about what I am supposed to do, but I just don't understand what is going wrong with my guitar.

Here is an example: If I take a look at the neck of my guitar (looking from the headstock towards the bridge), it seems to me like there is a slight back bow in the headstock area, if I may say so. But when checking for neck relief the other way, with a capo on the first fret, the distance between the strings and the frets is quite good. So this is quite puzzling...

Nevertheless I am still experiencing quite a lot of fret buzz in almost all positions (particularly in the 2nd and 3rd fret), and even dead notes on the 11th fret, which drives me insane.

I have tried loosening the trussrod even a little more than necessary, but that backbow was still there and the buzz, too. Not to mention that the pretty high action was uncomfortable.

Whenever I adjusted the trussrod, I NEVER turned more than 1/4 of a turn at once. The thing is I just didn't really notice any difference (I turned something like 2/4 of a turn if I add them up) - the pitch didn't change, the backbow (as I said) was still there. And I waited one day for the wood to react, and still nothing. The only thing I noticed was the raise in the action.

What am I supposed to do? I am pretty sure this buzzing comes from my pretty hard strumming style (among other possible reasons, e.g. the bad setup). Should I use a .10-.48 strings set? (BTW, I play in Drop-Db tuning, so I considered getting some heavier strings to avoid buzzing and all that. I'm currently using a .10-.46 set).

Should I also try to raise the height of the strings until there is no fret buzz/dead notes? The problem is that I would prefer a low action, so it doesn't make the guitar hard to play... I haven't modified the height of the strings at all since I bought the guitar, and this is another thing I am uncomfortable about - messing up the distance between the strings and the fretboard too much and not being able to get back to the previous setup again... if only there were an "Undo" button for guitars, just like on computers ...

I forgot to mention that this buzzing is most obvious with the thicker strings. With the thinner ones, it is not that noticeable.

I don't really know what to do, honestly. But I am willing to learn. If you guys could help me, I would be grateful. I have tried to look for help on other forums in my country, but they laughed at me because I am a newbie in setting guitars up. Hopefully this won't happen here...

Ok one step at a time, you'll get there. What I need you to do is forget about what you've been told and follow what I tell you, only. I don't know how much you know, so lets not jump to conclusions eh?



Ok forget sighting down the neck. That is ok to do in a shop when something is wrong, the guitars are not looked after and subject to varying degrees of humidity.
Capo the first fret, press down at the 17th fret. You should see a gap about the thickness of your high E string between the top of the fret and the underside of the string. Some people like less, some like more. I like more, around the thickness of a G string (smirk).
No one expects you to eye up that gap and be spot on. If you have a set of feeler gauges use those to measure it. If not use a off cut from a E,B or G string. It's a little more tricky but will suffice. All I'd say is that opt to have a slight gap between the off cut of string/feeler gauge and the string and the fret wire top.





No one here is laughing. I can safely assume that the majority of your problems are because you are using too light a gauge string for the pitch you're tuning to.
You need a much heavier gauge string. I'd be putting a set of .013" strings on that tuning.
The reason you're not noticing any bow in the neck is because a truss rod only works one way on most guitars (yours included).
It will pull the headstock back to create backbow or straighten a neck when you tighten it. When you loosen it, it does little. But does allow string tension to pull the headstock forward and create neck relief. Which is what you need.
So first order of the day, get some heavy strings on, or tune your guitar to E concert pitch.
The reason you're noticing so much rattling around on the bass strings and not the treble is because the bass strings are less tense/tight than the treble strings on a standard tuned guitar. With how you've dropped the tuning on your guitar that is more so.

Have a go with that and let us know how you get on, there is plenty more should you need it.

_________________
No no and no

Oh and eventually you'll have to stop hitting the strings so hard, just for good technique. So you may as well start practicing as soon as possible.

_________________
No no and no

That depends on the guitar. Lace Guitars are cheap and yes they can be set up to be an extremely good guitar. The RJ Reynolds guitar guitar i got for my son when he was 10 was a crap guitar and neither I or a professionl tech could set that thing up to be properly intonated or hold a tune. Of course as with any brand there are good builds and bad builds.

At this point it it were me I would upgrade to a better quality guitar and use the Bullet as the experiment guitar. Most good and cheap guitars are going to cost around a hundred bucks. This is why they are considered by most as a starter guitar. You can experiment with it and make it a good guitar.

_________________
RK

2007 Fender Highway 1
2012 American Deluxe
2015 MIM Dave Murray HHH
2010 Fender Blacktop
1987 Fender Avalon Acoustic
2012 Marshall DSL 15 watt head

Thank you all for the replies.

I will definitely change my strings to a heavier gauge, but that will probably be like in a month or so. Right now I'm pretty short of money (and time, unfortunately).

But... wouldn't a .13 string set be like a little too hard to bend? I don't do bends a lot to be honest, but I would like to have some "freedom" (if I may say so) if I want to solo from time to time. Plus, things sound pretty good on the 3 thin strings, the real problems are with the thick ones.

I am thinking about a Dunlop Heavy core (.11-.14-.18.-28-.38-.50), which appears to have been designed for lower/drop tunings, like mine. Is that ok for Drop-Db, or is it still too light a gauge?... I am just a little bit concerned about the ease of playing the thin strings...

By the way, will the low E string nut slot have to be filed, so that the .50 string would fit?

Also, I have been jamming a little a few minutes ago and I have just noticed something: if I strum a chord on the thick strings, it buzzes; if I strum each string separately on each fret, it doesn't buzz that much (actually there is almost no buzz), except the 11th fret, where pretty much each string buzzes no matter how light or hard I strum.

So I guess yes, besides the gauge, there is a problem with my strumming style, I'll try to strum a little lighter. As a matter of fact, I've noticed that my strumming is pretty light when I sit down, but when I play standing up, I tend to strum hard... perhaps it's just the excitement of playing . I'll definitely try to control myself.

There's no way round it, you need some tension in those strings. That is all there is to it.

_________________
No no and no

Okay, I'll get some thick strings then . But will there be any difficulties with the nut? I've heard that with thicker strings (something like from .50s on), it's quite hard to make them fit in the nut. How low can I go without having such problems?

There is no rule of thumb. If you have a LSR roller nut, you can put up pretty much whatever you want. If it's a bone nut, you might want to see a luthier. Are you sure you chose the right guitar for what you're trying to do with it?

Cheers

David

_________________
"Humans think they are smarter than dolphins because we build cars and buildings and start wars etc...and all that dolphins do is swim in the water, eat fish and play around. Dolphins believe that they are smarter for exactly the same reasons."

I'm no expert, but my recent experience with a no name guitar that my friend asked me to clean up for him makes me think there is a price point where the guitar is going to have problems unless you put in more time and effort than the factory did. I couldn't get this guitar to intonate properly and there was no rhyme or reason to the changes as I adjusted the saddles back and forth. It was good practice for me, but I think it would be less frustrating and more beneficial to just practice on a better quality instrument. The worse you can do is cost yourself the price of a setup if you can't get it done yourself.

_________________
'10 American Deluxe HSS Sunset Metallic
'10 JA-90 Thinline Telecaster
'15 Music Man JP-15 Blueberry Burst
'07 Les Paul Standard Faded LCPG #82
'14 Carvin ST300
'12 Carvin CS424S
'66 Guild Starfire IV w/Bigsby
'14 Warmouth Partscaster Daphne Blue

@ Amerigo: No, I'm not sure I've chosen the right guitar, the thing was that I had been playing guitar for some time and for five years I have really longed for having an electric guitar. So I got my first job and with my first money I bought a Squier Bullet Strat, the cheapest guitar in the local shop (and I also read that this quitar is pretty good for alternative rock, which is what I play). I didn't really care about the materials, the quality etc., I just wanted to have an electric guitar. The problems began a little bit later. I still don't regret having bought this guitar, though. I just want to get it set up right, that's all.

As for the type of nut, I don't know what kind of nuts they put on Bullet Strats, I guess it's something like plastic or anything cheap...

P.S.: right now I'm saving money for a PRS SE. But I'll keep this guitar as well, it has a sentimental value

Hey MIke, welcome to the forum!!!

Listen to Niki, he knows what he's talking about!!!

Another thing that might help is some photos if you can......get some photos of the Nut, the saddles and the neck, then we can have a bit more of an idea of the set-up it has already.........

Remember there are many thing that can cause string buzz, wrong gauge strings, saddles to low, truss rod set wrong and even, believe it or not, too many winds on the string at the gears...........

Get us some photos and lets see if between us we can set it up for you in cyber-space!!!!!

_________________
speak slowly I'm a drummer too!!

And I proudly lack a stick or a kazoo up my arse...........

with the stock nut and a .50 on top it will bind a little and cause some tuning and action issues. you may need the nut slots widened to go up enough for that tuning. if you play allot of drop tuned music you may consider an extended scale baritone for your next guitar. the Mike Mushok PRS comes to mind. I have an early ibanez mushok signature that is a baritone and I currently have 74-14 on it and its tuned AEADGB. if I go much lower in gauge its like playing rubber bands.

_________________

I knew a guy who used to come over and jam with me and a buddy in a garage band a number of years ago. The guy had a cheap Ibanez something-something that looked like a copy of a Gibson SG.

Let me tell you... That cheesy looking guitar ROCKED!! I don't remember what all he had done to it, except that he had a Dimarzio Super Distortion in the bridge and a PAF Pro in the neck, and something else done to it - I can't remember... But I all I can remember is the incredible tone and wicked Santana-like sustain he got out of it!

$200 cheap P.O.S. SG copy
$200-$300 in upgrades, mods, and expert setup.
Daaaaaaaaaay-um!!!