I'm finished with it Nutter,and I'm not having anything else to say about the matter,in public or private.....it could get really ugly,trust me,my friend.

I agree and that's the best way.

Rebelsoul: you have to stop making assumptions about people and what they know or don't know, and making accusations personally about their abilities when you don't know them from Adam, that's the bottom line. It's too easy to hide behind a keyboard on the net and make claims downing people's knowledge when you don't even know them.

Basically taking a cheap shot at someone for your own entertainment and using the anonymity of the net as a safety blanket.

Basically grow up and accept that other people know a bit about things and you're not the only one in the world who knows about tube amps.

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Luck won't do it and ignorance can't

George Van Eps.

Good question Nutter, I have one of those Blackstar valve pedals played through a Blackstar amp in the shop put it up against a few others and to my ears was just the Mutts Nuts, at home at the volumes I play at it still tops the Boss BD1 and the drive from line6 looper pedal it's just a "richer" if this word offends try "fuller" should this offend I couldn't give a stuff ( no offence) sound through the little Vox AC4, through the Marshall AVT 100 on it's own I couldn't say it just gathers dust these days, had them hooked up together throught the line6 stereo ports at one time but was more trying out phaser and other pedals along with the AVT's built in effects, I should give it a go on it's own through it although the AVT has a pre amp valve, maybe I'm just a Vox convert, would have loved to have my old 2x12 Marshall to try out the valve pedal, whenever I got the pots to engage on it the 2x12 was a big full sound even at low volumes any of them little amps I tried before the Vox never grabbed my attention

Well, I don't want to spoil the other fun, but I'll have a bite at that.

Just to put my cards on the table, I have five Marshalls; two valve amps, two trannies and a hybrid. To my completely subjective ears the valves beat the pants off the transistors and the hybrid is somewhere between the two. Just as most of us would expect. I've never blind-tested them and I'd be fascinated to try, especially by putting them all through the same speaker cab, to eliminate that variable. But till then my belief is that valves beat transistors, plain and simple.

I also have a drive pedal with a valve in and others without, including modelling pedals. Those units sound very different to each other - but not better and worse, just different.

That's the odd bit that interests me. As soon as it's a pedal instead of an amp the value judgement disappears and I'm just hearing difference. Alternate flavours. Again, in this I seem to be like most other players (not very original of me - haha!).

Curious.

Cheers - C

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As a harp player as well as a guitarist (actually, I'm probably a better harp player than i am a guitarist, but whatever...), there is a pretty convincing argument that a tube-driven overdrive pedal sounds more "organic" in comparison to a solid-state unit.

A great individual doing business as the Lone Wolf Blues Company out of Louisiana makes pedals specifically designed and voiced for the challenges of harp players; he makes a wonderful solid state overdrive called a "Harp Break"...rich, thick and dirty, it sounds a bit square-wave-y and distorted. He also makes a wonderful tube-driven overdrive called the "Harp Attack"...rich and thick but a smoother, saw-tooth-wave-y signal is created.

Tha Harp Attack sounds more like a vintage tube amp, period. Whether ran through an amplifier or ran through the PA, you have an instant Little Walter vibe.

The Harp Break is harder-edged, more modern and distorted sounding. It's still a really nice sound, but not nearly as "cool" as the "Attack" pedal.

Outside of the number/type (to amp or to PA) of outputs, the main difference between the pedals is the drive portion of the circuit. Otherwise they're very similar.

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Good Vibes To Y'all!



Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals

Hi SA: that's a very interesting example, because you seem to be saying the circuitry in those two pedals is similar except for the valve. And therefore the valve is making the significant difference. I definitely trust your ears, so that's fascinating.

Usually in discussions amongst guitarists when someone claims that a pedal sounds good because it has a valve in it they are immediately fallen upon by others poo-poo'ing the idea. I've heard people get very sneary and contemptuous about the possibility that a valve can contribute anything meaningful to a pedal's sound at all. I'm not qualified to know the reality of that.

I do know that my Blackstar pedal has a valve in it and it makes sounds I like very much indeed. But then I like some other pedals too, the OD-2 for instance, and they've never been anywhere near the little glass bottles. I wouldn't dream of trying to tell someone my Blackstar was "better" than his Tubescreamer or Fuzzface or... etc... I'd be laughed out of court.

I'm trying to visualise your pedalboard and while I can't remember every detail of it (photo, please! ) I'm pretty certain I'm finding plenty of transistors there and a shortage of valves. And it's a highly tasteful and respectable board, if memory serves!

All I'm saying: when guitarists think about pedals the criteria and value judgements we bring to bear on amps disappear and a different set of fixations emerge. We worry about germanium versus non-, analog v digital, true bypass, and the rest of it. Suddenly we don't care very much about the compressive magic of valves.

I'm just wondering how much that is determined by our ears and how much by decades of guitar world tradition, branding and lore? I don't know the answer.

Cheers - C

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Point well taken! Like most of us I'm meticulous about what I'm hunting for tone-wise when recording. I end up with my favorite old standbys - all tubes... I'll try everything though - that's just what I end up with...

I'm a working musician for the most part - I do my own stuff but my gigs aren't huge by any measure. This lends itself to a bit of unpredictable chaos when setting up, getting tones, etc. I've just found it easier to dial in something on the modeling amp that will be the same every night where I don't have to screw with it. Half of the time I can barely hear any kind of mix on-stage but I know it'll sound good out front.

If I was in a position to have consistent sound-checks, able to take my time and stuff - a guitar tech lol - then I would definitely roll out my favorite tube amps.

I'm in agreement with you of course. My tube amps sound best, no doubt.

I don't own the Harp Attack (the one with the tube/valve/bottle in it), but I have had opportunity to play through one, and it is on the GAS list. I would liken it to more of a tube Pre-amp than just an overdrive pedal (due to the circuitry that allows it to go directly into a PA.

I already own the Harp Break (solid state pedal), and it is excellent for what it does as well. The creator of the two pedals said the overdrive part of the circuit is very similar (just as you said, one uses a tube while the other a transistor), but the difference in performance is pretty drastic. 

All of the Lone Wolf Blues Company harmonica effects pedals (he's got a whole line) are low-gain pedals designed to prevent the squeally crap monster that often attacks a harp player when he (or she) tries to get a nasty and overdriven tone. I know a "low-gain overdrive or distortion pedal" sounds like an oxymoron, but it works.

The Harp Break is a harsher, grittier overdrive/distortion sound...the Attack is smoother. In guitar pedal terms, I would liken the former to a DS-1 distortion pedal and the latter to a TS-9 overdrive pedal--similar but not the same.

Interestingly, I pulled the trigger on the Attack pedal based on the preference(s) of my band's drummer/producer. On many of our studio recordings, I go through my pedalboard directly into the recording console to record my harp parts. Several times, he has requested that I go a bit insane with the overdrive, almost into the "something's broken" category. In studio, there wasn't a feedback problem, because I'm not near a speaker or monitor (unless the headphones don't seal well around my ears).
Live, however, it would quickly go to crap, because using a high-gain guitar overdrive effect just doesn't bode well in the feedback department. It is easier to achieve that effect on stage with the Harp Attack pedal than the Harp Break pedal, because of the low-gain high-overdrive insanity capable with that box. 

 I resisted playing with that much dirt at first, but after giving it a try a few times, I must admit he's on to something...he's got "good ears" when it comes to blending sounds, so I've learned to trust his instincts on certain songs and certain settings. I don't go that "nasty" every time, but there's enough give-and-take between the two of us (as bandmates and as friends) to know that it will work out.

I still plan on adding the Harp Break pedal, because of the capability of plugging into the PA sans amp...I could just throw that pedal into my harp bag whenever I am going to be playing solely harmonica all night.


I wonder if our expectations as they pertain to pedals are different than amplifiers...after all, I've never "hated" solid state amps, I just prefer what a tube amp does...whereas I love my (too many) solid state pedals, and use them to enhance or add textures to my tube amp. I've often wondered what a good tube-driven pedal (like your Blackstar) would do in conjunction with my Vibroverb...dang you, now I've got to go find out!


The Big Ol' Board of Sonic Bliss has changed since my last posted picture of it...a couple of pedals changed, a couple moved around, and if the past is any indication, it will continue to evolve...and you're right, there's a conspicuous shortage of tubes on it.

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Good Vibes To Y'all!



Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals

I don't know if I have "tin ears" or not but I do know that there's been a lot of high frequency roll off in the last few years.

I was helping a band of youths (what's a yute) setup and they were all hearing a high pitched noise in the PA that I absolutely couldn't hear at all.

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In my opinion Leo Fender had essentially perfected the guitar amplifier by 1964.

yep,you do have tin ears mhowell!
so do I..."Tinnitus"!...most musicians suffer from mild to severe cases,also alot of concert goers....in my case it has also come from a lifelong fondness of firearms and shooting....years ago I damaged my ears from both,loud music and gunfire...these days I use ear protection when shooting,and have tried it onstage,but it bothers me...alot.

Ah-ha! Well, I don't promise you'll like it or not, but I know for certain I'd be fascinated to find out what your ears make of it. Mine's the HT-Dual, which seems the most varied and useful to me. But the HT-Drive is tasty too and worth a test flight.

If you do, please give us your thoughts. From you, that would be an especially useful review.

Cheers - C

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