You can always negate the problem of tube vibration with a piggy-back amp and placing the head on a solid surface away from the cabinet.I'm surprised how much attention this thread has garnered because what it all boils down whether it's tube,solid state or hybrid,is what sound you're satisfied with.I have amps that represent each type and get satisfactory sounds from all of them that the average lay person an I dare say most musicians couldn't tell from one another unless they were taken with an extreme case of Eric Johnson Syndrome.

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

As much as I love my fellow Texan's music and admire his ability, he has done a great disservice to the general guitar playing public by stating his preferences as absolute truths rather than What they are--opinions based on anecdotes and personal experiences.

Is there a difference between brands or types of batteries? Possibly.
Is even the most trained ear going to notice it? Minusculely.

If it all adds up to a big difference to him, and it matters that much iso as to make him uncomfortable, then he should keep on poking that particular voodoo doll...

HOWEVER...I once went to a "Tax Benefit" that Clifford Antone (of Antone's Blues Bar fame) threw for himself. He asked many of his friends and associates to show up for this event, which started at 5:00PM on a Sunday Afternoon and went on until after three.

The announced headliners--Albert Collins and Delbert McClinton--were opened for by many famous names in the Austin scene at that time--Tommy Shannon, George Rains, Derek O'Brien, Charlie Sexton, Ian Moore, Reese Wynans, Sarah Brown, Kaz Kassonoff...the list was huge. Some scraggly looking character showed up with his band and asked if he could play (which is the first time I met Willie Nelson). Everybody jammed together and had a great time.

There were a whole row of very nice vintage Fender amps lines up across the stage...blackface Twin Reverbs and Super Reverbs, Albert Collins' famous silverface Quad Reverb, and a few Marshalls here and there.

Eric Johnson showed up and borrowed a Stratocaster...and absolutely sucked. He was so freaked out by playing someone else's axe and amp, without any of his own "security blankets," he just froze up and couldn't even play. Fortunately there was another guitarist on stage and Eric escaped relatively unscathed after a song and a half.

I ran into him a month or two later at the Dallas Guitar Show, and mentioned I saw him there. I didn't donthis to embarrass him or anything, I just thought it was a cool event. He said something to the effect of, "Yeah, there was something messed up on that amp and I didn't have my own guitar."

I didn't point out that the guy playing that guitar and amp previously seemed to have no problem with either instrument. I just got his autograph and went on my way.

That was an epiphany to me--I didn't need to worry that everything wasn't "just so" in my rig at all times. Yes, I'll play better and be more comfortable with my axe set up my way going into my effects and amp with my settings--but to be paralyzed and unable to play was ridiculous.

Likewise, when people start thinking they can't play well because tube/valve number three isn't a NOS GE or that the battery in their fuzz pedal is a Panasonic rather than a Duracell, they're barking up the wrong tree.

I just got a new 1983 G&L Nighthawk...the setup is structurally sound but not to my liking (the action is too high for me), but I'm gonna play it until I can get a good tech to work on it. To not do so would be a shame. If I get too hung up on it, I'll miss out on some time playing a primo instrument.

Get what you like and what you want and what you can afford at this moment, and use it to the best of your ability. Yes, a better amp might sound better, but if you play your best, I'm not gonna say, "Hmm, he needs to change valve #3..."; I'm gonna say, "Man, they can play!"

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Good Vibes To Y'all!



Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals

In a little over three hours,I'll use this Strat plugged into this Vibrolux Reverb....nothing between the two except an electronic tuner....it will be cranked to 5 or 6....any mistake I make will be amplified also,it keeps me on my toes,no safety net....most guys can't play with a bare minimum of gear anymore.

Amen brother! Tubes have a deep full sound (can be mellow, can be ruff) , you decide. Solid state is solid, but cookie cutter. This is not rocket science! Although solid state is easier to handle (weight) it lacks the sound of the tube because of the advancements made in circuitry. If you are an artist you know what I mean. If you prefer the digital sound, go solid, but if like your own (you decide) sound go tube. I play both. Try to be you, not somebody else.

You just had to do it didn't you Ceri?

I don't get any more or less enjoyment out of hooking up my Proco Solo through my JC than I do tube amp dist. Call me a freak if you want.


In response to Gorgon: NOS is king and always will be. It's not even up for debate. It is a proven fact that even modern tube manufacturers agree with. If you choose to use a modern EH, GT, JJ, etc, in your amp, and you like it, knock yourself out. It is important for you to know that there is also a difference between NOS and UOS. Reputable businesses prove a tube to be NOS and they can be tested by a purchaser to insure that they are what they are and free of defects. The chances of a NOS going microphonic are actually less than a modern tube going splat.

Modern manufacturers do much less screening (none at all by modern Tung Sol and other labeled tubes from the same plant) than what was performed in the older times. It's less costly to them to just let everything pass and have the buyer end up with a DOA tube and return it to GC, or wherever, than it is to pay people to screen them. In the old days, they were rigorously screened before leaving the plants.

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Well i don't know about that i've not read what all the makers think. Point is a lot of people are talking on this thread about the difference between tube and SS and some are saying it's overstated and SS serve you every bit as well and that "you can't tell the difference" in a lot of cases and "the audience couldn't care less what you use" so that being the case it makes the argument for NOS tubes completely laughable. Would the vast majority of players be able to tell the difference between modern valves from a good manufacturer and NOS? i don't think so and think much of it is a placebo effect ie. all in your mind. The valves then may have been better built but maybe it's like much other things that we think everything was better than it actually was.

I repeat: who wants to spend a small fortune on NOS valves and everything it entails; dealing with internet crooks, frauds etc. etc. Who wants to go through that in order to have their amp functioning? particularly when today's valves work more than competently?

There is a guy who has his YT channel that i got to know a bit and he's from the States and he told me that he's been burnt quite a few times on these NOS tube deals. Not recommended unless you know the source of the tubes is bona fide and not a rip off artist.

I have to repeat the idea of a blind test: If you were given two identical amps one with NOS and the other good quality modern tubes i say that you'd be hard pressed to discern any appreciable difference. The audience? well suffice to say if they can tell no difference between tube and SS then they won't be able to differentiate between NOS and modern.

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Luck won't do it and ignorance can't

George Van Eps.

I have no less than 11 JJ EL84's that have lasted less than a fortnight on a shelf. There are 4 JJ ECC83's and two Sovtek ECC83's. I had a complete set of low powered Tungsols in my JCM800. Four EL34's and five ECC83's. I sold the amp nearly a year ago to a friend who gigs (loud) three or four times a week. The valves are still fine.

My main problem with JJ and Sovtek is that when they are good, they sound ok. When their bad, they sound deplorable. Horrible, grainy and hard. It's not even like I bias my amps hot. I prefer pedal distortion coupled with amp compression. So keep the bias low on all except my other JCM800 that has KT88's and I only bias that to 80% of the plate, 67ma per pair.

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No no and no

Once again Nick has hit the nail on the head....yeah some new production tubes sound fine,I use them also in some of my amps,they just don't last as long and when they go belly up especially the power tubes,you can have a disaster on your hands.
One of our forum members tested the new Tung-Sol 6V6s,in his amp and the man knows his stuff,he made every change possible in the amp components and tweaked the bias trying to get good results to rule out anything other than the tubes...no good results,several pairs of the tubes cherry-plated and wouldn't work right,so the best thing to do was to chunk them and relate his experiences to the other tube heads here...you can find all that in the vintage and modern amp sections...
Now,most good NOS tubes will last decades,they're getting harder to find though,that;s why some of us are trying to find well made new production tubes because the NOS tube supplies are drying up.
Some of us know our tubes,new and old,good and bad....and lots of guys new to music and tube amps get burned on new stuff and come away hating tube amps and vow to never use them again.....think of how many guys will want to buy those new Tung-Sol 6V6s to put in their Deluxe Reverb Reissue,because the new Tung-Sol box looks like the old box from years ago that had quality tubes inside.....they go home put them in and wham bam,thank ya ma-am!...then they take the amp to some self proclaimed "tech" who does well to install a capacitor and he has a field day with the guy's amp.
It doesn't matter which tubes you wind up usung,NOS or new production,you need to educate yourself and weed through the B/S.
As far as whoever is listening and whether they can tell the difference,I'll repeat what I said earlier...I know the difference...and some old English guy once said."To thyne own self be true."

I can't tell for sure. My personal observation in my rig (stereo and guitar rig) is that the NOS tubes seem to please longer and better. I have a lot of Philips JAN tubes. But also brand new TAD tubes (tube amp doctor). Seem to be totally OK, these.

Cheers

David

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"Humans think they are smarter than dolphins because we build cars and buildings and start wars etc...and all that dolphins do is swim in the water, eat fish and play around. Dolphins believe that they are smarter for exactly the same reasons."

It's OK that some artists take their tone more seriously than others. Get over it. Some feel better about going the extra mile to ensure their tone is up to their standards and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks whether it's other professional artists or an audience. I'm not a tone junkie mainly because I can't afford it but I also don't play for a living. If you don't care as much about your tone that's fine but don't knock dudes who do care, can hear the difference in tubes and want to have the best tone they can manage to create.

Arc

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...I for one, sure would appreciate the return of intelligent conversation, spirit of assistance and the simple yet effective ignoring of those who can't seem to hang with that...
Best regards,
rob

"VALVE REACTOR: THE INSIDE STORY
©2001 VOX, 316 S. SERVICE RD., MELVILLE, NY 11747. http://WWW.VOXAMPS.CO.UK
VALVE REACTOR: THE INSIDE STORY
In the Valve Reactor power amplifier, a 12AX7 dual-triode tube
(12AX7s are typically used as preamp tubes) is connected directly
to an output transformer. Because of the relatively low Wattage
this 100% tube power amp produces, our amp designers had to
develop a way to raise the output level to one which could actually
drive speakers to stage volume levels while maintaining the
integrity of the tube-amp sound and feel. We accomplished this
by creating a circuit of proprietary design dubbed the VOX
VariAmp Power Circuit. The output transformer is connected to
this new VariAmp Power Circuit which uses Constant Current
design and Reactive Feedback technology. The VariAmp Power
Circuit cannot be overdriven, is totally transparent and can be
configured to be 1, 15, 30 or 60 Watts."
http://www.voxamps.com/downloads/PDF/Valvetronix.pdf

This confirms what I experienced! It's called "Constant Current...Reactive Feedback" -- sympathetic vibrations. ...I called it "goin' liquid", "liquidity" cuz it's like turnin' on a water faucet of music for me!

I maintain my position -- when a SS sensor that acts like a tube to duplicate constant current reactive feedback (sympathetic vibrations), then we'll have a SS amp worth playing.

Vox clearly understands what I felt and thus far, they've used the best possible solution...a tube in the SS circuit to duplicate the sympathetic vibrations a tube amp creates...to liven up the playing area!

Have a good day people!!!

Yes but Vox are a shower of hyperbole masters that have said anything in order to make sales since day one.
They still claim the AC30 is Class A circuitry.

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No no and no

But still, now we have a technical explanation for what I was trying to describe to everybody; *and*, it confirms my thinking that the missing link in SS is a SS sensor that acts like a tube!!!

yo yo!!!

I have A+ Certification, BICSI Certification, but I am not an electrician or amp technician or an acoustic engineer, which is why I had a bit o' trouble trying to explain this, at first. Now, we got some technical electrical gee-tar terms to work with here -- constant current reactive feedback, goin' liquid!

This NOS is, well nonsense what about all the fender tube amps that are being put out now by the fender custom shop; those Clapton one's plus all the vintage reissues and all the rest? they don't go round searching for NOS tubes They install the best that's available to them and the amps sell and will sound damn good.

So the NOS lovers are you trying to say that all these amps will sound bad/or inferior because they don't have old valves?

What i'd say is people who think like that have an overactive imagination plus too much time on their hands and too much money

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Luck won't do it and ignorance can't

George Van Eps.

Haha - glad to be of service!

But seriously, through all its surprising twists and turns this thread has managed to stay good tempered, so that's nice. And on it I for one am getting the opportunity to hear people with far more knowledge and experience of this topic than me talking about it at length. Which is a pleasure you just couldn't get anywhere else, so how cool is that?

I'm fascinated by the sometimes contradictory, sometimes complimentary things coming from equally informed people. You point out that almost nobody in the audience notices or cares about this stuff, which is true and salutory. Rebelsoul says never mind, it matters to him and since he's the guy doing the playing that is vital. Which is an equally excellent point.

Both of those and many other observations on this thread come from real-world experience. Solid gold!

Appreciated and enjoyed from this particular work station, that's for sure! Carry on, gentlemen.

Cheers - C

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