Can we please elaborate on the viscosity of the liquidity? So far I'm a bit confused; It's supposed to be liquid, yet thick and creamy, but crunchy. I am confused.

Tell you what, here's an image of a toilet.



I am apalled at how well the two topics interconnect!

Toilets always flush best with a bit of a drop.

Cheers - C

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Ahh, your wit is a relief!

It's not wit, it's Rage Against the Latrine.

Cheers - C

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what a sense of humour, you made my day

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"Humans think they are smarter than dolphins because we build cars and buildings and start wars etc...and all that dolphins do is swim in the water, eat fish and play around. Dolphins believe that they are smarter for exactly the same reasons."

Input a signal to the amp and measure the results. Then replace the speaker with a dummy load and run the test again. Then compare measurements.

The trick would be to get the dummy load to match the frequency response of the speaker. Maybe a voice coil without a cone would work. Tube amps have a high output impedance which makes them more responsive to the frequency response of the speaker.

This highlights the problem with any test; it's extremely difficult to eliminate all variables and really get a comparison of A vs B.

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In my opinion Leo Fender had essentially perfected the guitar amplifier by 1964.

The problem with tube vs SS in general is that there's really no such thing.

Which tube? Which SS device? Sure, we can compare a tube amp to SS amp take some measurements and present the results but what does that tell us?

So we can dig deeper and start coming up with contrivances to eliminate variables, i.e. run both amps into the same speaker, etc..

And what do we test? Pre-amps, power-amps, what about tube and SS types, BJTs, mosfets, 6L6, EL34, etc? What about hybrids; tube pre-amp into SS power amp of vice versa?

And what do we measure? Just measurable objective parameters or double blind opinions or both?

What's a the sample size? I get dizzy just thinking about it.

Somebody give me about a million bucks and I'll conduct a really good test.

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In my opinion Leo Fender had essentially perfected the guitar amplifier by 1964.

Sure tubes vibrate,there was never any doubt of that,but the vibrations can cause them to become more microphonic....most everything vibrates in an amp when it cranked...haven't all the techies here noticed the vibrating stuff in your room when you're playing loud?
Mullard,and I'm sure RCA and others did lots of testing along those lines to develop the tube internals to be steadier,...beefier mica spacers,etc.,so the microphonics would be less of a problem.
The "sheep dip" of this thread was about developing sympathetic vibrations and liquidity to duplicate tube amp sound in SS amps....when actually the vibrations in a tube amp can cause crappy howling sounds in tubes...that the jest of the thing that most missed out on,especially the incredible wonderkid who started the whole mess.
An article to read and ponder.
http://tone-lizard.com/Tube_revelation.htm

Good article.

The article mentioned "microphonic resonance" and when I here the term resonance I assume that oscillation is likely - which is seldom a good thing.

RCB's discussion about "sympathetic vibration" was off the wall. But I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he was just a non technical person attempting to explain a very technical phenomena. But the more questions I asked the more mystical he got. I hope he understands that sympathetic vibration combined with resonance quite often yields bad oscillation.

I have an '51 Gibson es125 that feeds back at G on the low string. You could control the feedback somewhat with a volume pedal so playing blues in open G can get really heavy. That was a rare case of good oscillation.

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In my opinion Leo Fender had essentially perfected the guitar amplifier by 1964.

A sure fire way to cure any constipation I may suffer.
Pretty sure I'd get through both rolls.

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No no and no

Um.....is that an elevator bathroom? WTF?

I want one bad.

Tubes serve their purpose in audio. No doubt. Players can "feel" the difference especially with an amp we have known for a time. That smoothness isn't coming from SS. Maybe one day they'll have the algorithms. One day far away. Never played the AxeFX so can't attest to how close they are yet.

A friend has it. It doesn't compete against a tube amp if you look at tone, microdynamics and transparency. Now he wants to try the Kemper amp.

Cheers

David

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"Humans think they are smarter than dolphins because we build cars and buildings and start wars etc...and all that dolphins do is swim in the water, eat fish and play around. Dolphins believe that they are smarter for exactly the same reasons."

Doesn't compete against which tube amp? What is microdynamics?

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In my opinion Leo Fender had essentially perfected the guitar amplifier by 1964.

Texas Guitar Slinger threw another monkey wrench into the mix with her recent thread found here:

http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70352&sid=cc585121f935f5ce6d46d3c3f336814a

If you note, she recorded these video/audio clip(s) with an Eleven Rack instead of her normal rig...and yet, she still sounds suspiciously like herself.

Would she had been more comfortable and happier with her normal rig? Undoubtedly.

Did she still sound stupendously awesome with what she had on hand? Definitely.

I have used tube, solid state, digital and virtual amps, effects and instruments for recording, performing and writing...each had their strengths and weaknesses, good points and bad. Yes, i prefer a good tube amp and analog effects every day of the week.

But ultimately it goes to how good the performance and the performer are...Becks proves that here.

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Good Vibes To Y'all!



Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals

To turn this thread slightly if i may; this talk of NOS tubes being the holy grail and how some guys will use nothing else in their amps well maybe tubes were better back in the day, who knows really but who wants to spend half their life scouring the net and everywhere else looking for tubes? as far as i'm concerned the tubes made today are more than good enough. There are a lot of internet con men out there too that you have to beware of.

I was talking to a guy who repairs and builds amps and he said he's been burned on the net a few times looking for these NOS tubes. When you get them they could be knackered and on their last legs and you've just been charged a fortune for them. I just wouldn't encourage that.

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Luck won't do it and ignorance can't

George Van Eps.